News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

How many AAs were removed from DL's ToT and replaced by screens?

Don't forget the Rocket AA that was *added*.

I actually don’t dislike the attraction on its own accord particularly given how quickly the retheme was turned around.

But I do think it is a terrible eyesore of an exterior that further eroded the overall theme of the park (and “Hollywoodland”, which I realize will soon be resolved.). The ride scenes themselves are also undoubtedly entirely in front of a screen.

 

[Chi84]

You guys use the word woke quite a lot. What do you think it means and why do you think it applies in the case of Splash Mountain being rethemed to Princess and the Frog?

Isn’t this thread for attraction discussion only per WDWmagic’s original post? I think woke is a word frequently used in the discussion of Splash Mountain in the politics and social issues forum. I suppose it’s hard to keep them separated though.

 

[doctornick]

GOTG:MB immediately comes to mind. As do multiple Universal attractions.

I will say the execution of screens and AAs together in and of itself is not a bad thing and I continue to believe a “refresh” of this attraction is not a bad thing. I just question the seeming desire to haphazardly rush this project like it’s removing hemorrhage.

I don’t doubt Disney is capable of creating a high quality second generation Splash Mountain around Tiana and friends. However I am more concerned if this “reimagining” is not well-conceived due to timing/budget constraints in the end both the pro-rethemers and purists will be displeased. And as a result it will forever inextricably be linked to the ride’s previous incarnation and (perceived “troubled”) history.

In some ways, if the budget is too constrained, it would behoove Disney not to “speed this up” at this time. Better to wait than risk the backlash of a “cheap” redo if they really hope to try to best close the book on this SOTS saga/controversy.

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but my educated guess is that the vast majority of the Disney fanbase would end up being okay with the retheme if the new ride is a high quality, fun, engaging experience - basically, if the ride is as good an attraction as Splash just using Tiana and friends instead. Now, I think it would be extremely difficult to recapture that quality even under the best of circumstances just because Splash is so well designed, but I would totally agree that it would be possible if Disney has the will to do so.

That said, what many of us are afraid of is that the new ride will just simply not be as good. And "expediting" the change certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the process. I think many of us that have misgivings about why the change is being made could get behind it if we had confidence in the likely quality of the replacement.

 

[doctornick]

How many AAs were removed from DL's ToT and replaced by screens?

Don't forget the Rocket AA that was *added*.

Frozen Ever After is the obvious answer here if it's really a debate. Yes, there are some (very good) AAs in the new ride, but we definitely when from lush fully fleshed out scenes to sparse ones (and not even really screens, because they didn't even bother to do that)

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but my educated guess is that the vast majority of the Disney fanbase would end up being okay with the retheme if the new ride is a high quality, fun, engaging experience - basically, if the ride is as good an attraction as Splash just using Tiana and friends instead. Now, I think it would be extremely difficult to recapture that quality even under the best of circumstances just because Splash is so well designed, but I would totally agree that it would be possible if Disney has the will to do so.

That said, what many of us are afraid of is that the new ride will just simply not be as good. And "expediting" the change certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the process. I think many of us that have misgivings about why the change is being made could get behind it if we had confidence in the likely quality of the replacement.

According to Disney, the idea had been in development for over a year when it was announced in June and 5 months later we're being told that the overlay is being expedited, despite other projects being delayed or cancelled.

Rushed jobs are rarely well executed, but I can't help but think the "expedited" wording from Disney's latest press release is also intended to quash speculation that the project has been delayed or potentially scrapped for some locations, despite no new details or concept art since the initial announcement.

 

[doctornick]

Unless it's blatantly, comically cheap, don't expect much backlash once it's done, regardless of the result.

The ride will be better (even if it's not) because its inclusive and based on a movie 2020 audiences recognize. The bar for success in the eyes of Disney is pretty low. Increased merch sales will also be seen as proof that they made the right decision.

And, quite frankly, legitimate criticism of what is likely to be a subpar replacement will be drowned out by folks who will call such complainers closet racists who are just butthurt over losing that horrible Splash ride.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Can you quote one person who said that in this thread?

Nobody’s said that on this site. Aside from one individual who I’m not going to name, I’ve never felt unwelcome on these boards. Disagreements may be had, but they’re usually handled in a civil manner.

WDWMAGIC is not Twitter.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Unless it's blatantly, comically cheap, don't expect much backlash once it's done, regardless of the result.

The ride will be better (even if it's not) because its inclusive and based on a movie 2020 audiences recognize. The bar for success in the eyes of Disney is pretty low. Increased merch sales will also be seen as proof that they made the right decision.

They have chosen their words in a way that “Literally anything will be better than that old ride”. That plus “expedited process” makes me think we’re going to get a really cheap ride (probably in part because Tokyo doesn’t want in, and 2 different versions of a highly detailed attraction are costly endeavours).

“‘The money will win out - Walt Disney 1969’” -Bob Iger

 

[tanc]

Tokyo has a lot of sponsorship for their rides too, which probably is another reason. A company probably would not want to fund a retheme of Splash Mountain, unless it's from Disney themselves. In Japan, Song of The South is pretty much relatively unknown, I have no Japanese friends who know about it. People view Splash Mountain as a bunch of cute animals, and I think it has to do with that the Japanese version doesn't obviously have the southern dialect that the American versions have.

 

[BrianLo]

WDWMAGIC is not Twitter.

I agree and really wish people would limit the discussion to this forum. I've been so confused about this whole "back and forth" and realized I'm actually just reading one side and the other side is occurring on Twitter.

There is a better quality discussion than everyone being upset about the obvious Twitter Trolls. Don't let them get to you all.

 

[Brer Oswald]

So far, I’m hearing that Splash Mountain the ride is found to be differentiated enough from Song of the South the film that the racially insensitive aspects of the film are not carried over to the ride. Obviously some people may disagree, but this seems like a valid and understandable position to me, and seems the likely position Disney had when green lighting the project in the first place and keeping it open since then.

I’m also hearing that those who are against the changes are skeptical about the number and sincerity of people who find the ride offensive. I’m not sure what sort of evidence could possibly exist that people are truly offended (protests? boycotts?), but it seems that complaints on social media are not taken as sufficient. Of course, only Disney would know the number or quality of complaints they may have received about the ride, and I’m pretty sure they’re not going to release that information.

There has been lots of discussion about the song, Zip-a-Dee-Doo-Dah (along with “Turkey in the Straw”) being an iteration of an old minstrel song. It seems those who are against the changes don’t believe any relation between the songs is significant enough to warrant changes. Disney may disagree with this one, but it does seem open to interpretation.

Finally, those who are against the changes generally can imagine a scenario in which their support for the ride would be reconsidered- more evidence of a genuinely offended party or the release of hidden information about malintent. If such information does exist, Disney certainly isn’t sharing it.

Anything I’m missing?

Again, I appreciate those of you who took the time to respond, and I truly am sorry that you’re losing an attraction you love.

Nope that sounds about right. Again, to address the second point, I’m going off of specific “influencers” who have influence on the perception of people in the online Disney community.

One in particular went hard attacking Splash Mountain fans after the announcement. He had Tweets contradicting himself weeks to months before, praising the animated sections of the movie and saying Splash is a fine ride. To be fair, he was consistent on his disdain for the film. Out of respect, I’m not going to share the individual’s name nor the images of the contradictions.

 

[Homemade Imagineering]

@Magic Feather Would you happen to know whether the current AA system within the attraction will have to be completely updated to an electrical system, since the current AAs in the attraction are all run off pneumatic air? In other words, will they have to retrofit the America Sings AAs with those micro industrial electric servos, or will the few remaining (assuming there are any left) America Sings AAs remain fitted with their current pneumatic cylinder mechs, while other electrical AAs are added to the attraction? It seems as if they no longer want to deal with Pneumatic air compressors anymore, since electrical is the current way of doing things, so given the opportunity to take the attraction down for a while, it would make sense for them to want to update infrastructure. It's also probably a bit too early to ask this at the moment, so feel free to pass on answering this.

 

[UNCgolf]

Frozen Ever After is the obvious answer here if it's really a debate. Yes, there are some (very good) AAs in the new ride, but we definitely when from lush fully fleshed out scenes to sparse ones (and not even really screens, because they didn't even bother to do that)

No screens, but some really impressive and immersive snowflake projections!

To be fair, I think Maelstrom had some relatively empty scenes too unless I'm misremembering. It was certainly a better fit for the pavilion, though -- and once they decided to retheme it, there was no excuse to leave so much empty space. It's probably the ride that feels most like a warehouse to me.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

What else did Disney do that was an "expedited project" that resulted in a ton of screens such that you would think this?

Mission Break Out & Frozen Ever After

 

[ParaRaven]

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but my educated guess is that the vast majority of the Disney fanbase would end up being okay with the retheme if the new ride is a high quality, fun, engaging experience - basically, if the ride is as good an attraction as Splash just using Tiana and friends instead. Now, I think it would be extremely difficult to recapture that quality even under the best of circumstances just because Splash is so well designed, but I would totally agree that it would be possible if Disney has the will to do so.

That said, what many of us are afraid of is that the new ride will just simply not be as good. And "expediting" the change certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the process. I think many of us that have misgivings about why the change is being made could get behind it if we had confidence in the likely quality of the replacement.

I agree and there are a couple of things I'd like to add regarding this:

1) I hear a lot of people saying that Splash is "well designed" (myself included) and I have been trying to figure out what that really means. I think it boils down to that Imagineering, on the whole, is really good at one specific type of storytelling, which I call 'implicit' or 'experiential' storytelling. Rides that remain relevant over time have less of a linear narrative and more of an overall 'feel' to the ride (pirates, HM, spaceship earth, etc...). When people refer to a ride feeling like a 'classic', this is what I think they are trying to explain. Attractions like Alien Encounter or even Frozen Ever After aren't really objectively bad, but are inherently less repeatable and relevant in the long term due to their more linear narrative. Splash is unique where it bridges the gap between these two types but never ends up being *too* linear in its narrative. I think that's part of the reason why people relate to the story (and attraction as a whole) so well.

2) Weather an attraction turns out well or not is dependant on a lot of factors. I definitely think it's possible that the original feel of Splash can be recaptured in the new version, but its really dependant on the project team and the timeline. Charita Carter as show producer is a good pick, but we will have to see how much influence she is actually given on the project. My real concern is that the story will be changed to a linear narrative (which seems to be the trend in the industry already), which would be the worst thing possible in so many ways. The 'expediting' comment doesn't bode well. Time will tell.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Mission Break Out & Frozen Ever After

How many AAs were removed from MBO and FEA and replaced with screens?

 

[MisterPenguin]

I actually don’t dislike the attraction on its own accord particularly given how quickly the retheme was turned around.

But I do think it is a terrible eyesore of an exterior that further eroded the overall theme of the park (and “Hollywoodland”, which I realize will soon be resolved.). The ride scenes themselves are also undoubtedly entirely in front of a screen.

Frozen Ever After is the obvious answer here if it's really a debate. Yes, there are some (very good) AAs in the new ride, but we definitely when from lush fully fleshed out scenes to sparse ones (and not even really screens, because they didn't even bother to do that)

There seems to be a theme here: ignore the question asked and make some other point.

I responded to someone who claimed that since PatF will be an expedited projected, then that means it will just be screens.

So, I asked what other rethemes were labeled by Disney an "expedited project" and the result was to remove all the AAs and make it just screens.

Someone said: Mission Breakout.

So I asked "How many AAs were removed from MBO and replaced by screens?"

Still no answer to that question, but, you two decide to talk about: the exterior of MBO which didn't have AAs and is not screens; and FEA which added a bunch of AAs and has relatively few screens. Neither of which were labeled an 'expedited project' as far as I know (FEA in fact took a rather long time to retheme).

So...

If someone claims that an "expedited project" is going to be "just screens", is there any example of a previously expedited project in which that happened?

Mind you, except for a very small number of simulators (Soarin', Star Tours, SW:SR, FoP), there's pretty much no Disney ride that's just all screens. And even then, those simulators are rather plussed -- they ain't just a flying theater. The only ride that I can think of that's mostly screens done cheap is Nemo. But a data set of one isn't a pattern. Disney isn't Universal.

 

[JohnD]

I cannot speak for anyone but myself but my educated guess is that the vast majority of the Disney fanbase would end up being okay with the retheme if the new ride is a high quality, fun, engaging experience - basically, if the ride is as good an attraction as Splash just using Tiana and friends instead. Now, I think it would be extremely difficult to recapture that quality even under the best of circumstances just because Splash is so well designed, but I would totally agree that it would be possible if Disney has the will to do so.

That said, what many of us are afraid of is that the new ride will just simply not be as good. And "expediting" the change certainly doesn't inspire confidence in the process. I think many of us that have misgivings about why the change is being made could get behind it if we had confidence in the likely quality of the replacement.

Tony Baxter, Imagineer for Splash Mountain and consultant for PATF, just got inducted into the International Association of Amusement Parks and Attractions Hall of Fame. He better not rest on his laurels.

 

[JohnD]

I agree and there are a couple of things I'd like to add regarding this:

1) I hear a lot of people saying that Splash is "well designed" (myself included) and I have been trying to figure out what that really means. I think it boils down to that Imagineering, on the whole, is really good at one specific type of storytelling, which I call 'implicit' or 'experiential' storytelling. Rides that remain relevant over time have less of a linear narrative and more of an overall 'feel' to the ride (pirates, HM, spaceship earth, etc...). When people refer to a ride feeling like a 'classic', this is what I think they are trying to explain. Attractions like Alien Encounter or even Frozen Ever After aren't really objectively bad, but are inherently less repeatable and relevant in the long term due to their more linear narrative. Splash is unique where it bridges the gap between these two types but never ends up being *too* linear in its narrative. I think that's part of the reason why people relate to the story (and attraction as a whole) so well.

2) Weather an attraction turns out well or not is dependant on a lot of factors. I definitely think it's possible that the original feel of Splash can be recaptured in the new version, but its really dependant on the project team and the timeline. Charita Carter as show producer is a good pick, but we will have to see how much influence she is actually given on the project. My real concern is that the story will be changed to a linear narrative (which seems to be the trend in the industry already), which would be the worst thing possible in so many ways. The 'expediting' comment doesn't bode well. Time will tell.

Let's hope that PATF has the same type of storytelling elements that make Splash good. Tony Baxter, imaginer for Splash will be consulting on it, so there's hope. What I think we don't want is another "Book Report" (i.e. the "linear narratives") like Little Mermaid.

 

[Brer Panther]

Apparently, the plot of the retheme is Louis trying to find his trumpet and getting into whacky shenanigans.