News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[JohnD]

Should we expect these changes to occur at both coasts (yes I am aware DLR doesn’t have HoP, CBJ, CoP etc... )? Of course, if the WDW changes were to come to DLR then we’d only see changes on IASW, JC and Pan. Maybe even Lincoln?

In WDW, I would only expect a change to the theme of Splash to PATF. It's not like Splash was correctly themed to Frontierland. The only theming change other than the ride would be the gift shop. In DLR, you could extend New Orleans Square around PATF as the transition from New Orleans to a bayou is natural in LA. But if that makes it no longer a "square", call the area around the new PATF, "Louisiana Bayou." Then shrink Critter Corner around Pooh.

As for any other attractions, I would prefer not to provide any conjecture at this point.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I honestly feel like he used the wrong terminology... I want to believe what he meant by "fast track" wasn't that they were rushing but that this project is now at the top of their priority list. Also, I remember reading somewhere that Disney had 18 billion just sitting in the bank right now.. and that they weren't even close to going bankrupt any time soon.. so them not being able to afford giving this ride justice isn't a good excuse.. if they went HARD on this refurb, it would cost them a couple million at most.. which is nothing when you look at 18 billion...

I'm not trying to get slaughtered on here, but.... if I were Disney, I would start on Florida first.. Cali has no hope in reopening any time soon and Florida would bring in immediate revenue which is something they need right now...

The retheme is designed around Disneyland. It makes little sense to start Florida first. Not to mention the fact that they have 3 new attractions they haven’t opened (1 of which is finished, but they’re holding off on due to the lack of tourists they can currently open their doors to). So “immediate revenue” isn’t a sound excuse.

 

[JohnD]

The retheme is designed around Disneyland. It makes little sense to start Florida first. Not to mention the fact that they have 3 new attractions they haven’t opened (1 of which is finished, but they’re holding off on due to the lack of tourists they can currently open their doors to). So “immediate revenue” isn’t a sound excuse.

Also, who knows when Governor Grinch, er, Newsom will allow DLR to open. Might as well start the retheme now.

 

[_caleb]

I’m not going to speak to the other person’s point. But to speak to my point, it is of my perception that most of the people dumping on Splash online are faking their outrage of it. My account’s name is “Brer Oswald”. There’s no way around it that I like Splash. I’ve had several conversations with these people discussing about our mutual enjoyment of the ride before June. People of several different backgrounds. All of which knew what movie it was loosely based on.

Now they do a 180? Come on, I’m not stupid enough not to notice. Unless they were just pretending to like it. But why would you initiate conversations and engage with me?

Thanks. This is what I was asking about. Now (if you don't mind) a follow-up question: why, in you opinion, would people fake outrage over Splash Mountain?

And why, again- in your opinion, would people who previously expressed their enjoyment of and appreciation for Splash Mountain suddenly change their minds and now be against it?

 

[_caleb]

I have no idea what you're getting at it. Let's go back to the original quote: "We want to make sure that we’re focusing on inclusivity for our guests as well, so we’ve chosen to speed up some of the work that we had been developing to make sure that our parks remain relevant and welcoming to all of our guests."

If parks are to "remain relevant and welcoming to our guests" that must mean the parks have fallen behind in that endeavor. Therefore, " speed up some of the work" and replace Splash with PATF so that "our parks remain relevant and welcoming to our guests." That's how I read it. Let's move on.

What I was getting at was trying to understand the perspective of those with whom I (think I might) disagree. Some who are against changing Splash Mountain are saying: "Show me evidence that Splash Mountain's theme offends people." Others are saying, "People might be offended, but they shouldn't be offended!"

@Animaniac93-98 seems to be of the opinion that there isn't significant evidence that people are genuinely upset/offended by the theme. @Brer Oswald seems to say that people aren't really offended, they're just feigning outrage (I've asked him to elaborate on that). I've read many posts here saying, "There is nothing racist about Splash Mountain and no one has any reason to be offended by the ride."

Feel free to move on. I'm just trying to have a discussion. I'm genuinely curious about your opinion and I'm truly trying to understand.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Thanks. This is what I was asking about. Now (if you don't mind) a follow-up question: why, in you opinion, would people fake outrage over Splash Mountain?

And why, again- in your opinion, would people who previously expressed their enjoyment of and appreciation for Splash Mountain suddenly change their minds and now be against it?

It makes people look better on social media when they denounce something that is deemed “racist” or otherwise “bad”. You see people do it all the time with the current President (it’s deserved, but why put extra attention on it, unless you’re farming for likes), different celebrities and accounts that engage in questionable or inappropriate behaviour, etc.

Why would they denounce something that they previously enjoyed? Simply put, while they may have enjoyed Splash, it is something they can live without, so why not take the golden opportunity to bash it while increasing your social media interactions and strengthening your brand.

It’s why I have little respect for the “influencers on DisTwitter”. They solely care about their brand and their interactions. It is of human nature to want to pick a target and attack. The Disney Fanbase has been given the golden target, Splash Mountain and it’s fans, that they can easily make fun of and dump on.

And if someone disagrees, they can just call them racist! It’s literally as easy as taking candy from a baby.

I know this has gone far beyond the actual retheme. But this event has caused some pretty nasty behaviour in the community, and it really needs to end. I appreciate that the users on here who disagree with my opinion aren’t like that. But it’s an extremely minimal percentage compared to the large Disney Fanbase on Twitter and Instagram.

Perhaps I’m preaching to the wrong crowd, but it’s only on here that I feel I can talk about this without being ruthlessly torn apart.

 

[JohnD]

What I was getting at was trying to understand the perspective of those with whom I (think I might) disagree. Some who are against changing Splash Mountain are saying: "Show me evidence that Splash Mountain's theme offends people." Others are saying, "People might be offended, but they shouldn't be offended!"

@Animaniac93-98 seems to be of the opinion that there isn't significant evidence that people are genuinely upset/offended by the theme. @Brer Oswald seems to say that people aren't really offended, they're just feigning outrage (I've asked him to elaborate on that). I've read many posts here saying, "There is nothing racist about Splash Mountain and no one has any reason to be offended by the ride."

Feel free to move on. I'm just trying to have a discussion. I'm genuinely curious about your opinion and I'm truly trying to understand.

Okay. I'll take a stab at it. But a deeper dive would require discussing in the politics thread. The political winds are blowing and Disney believes this is the path to least resistance. That's what you get with cancel culture. Someone declares they are offended by a product of Corporate X. Corporate X immediately gets on board to accommodate. Just look at over the summer the hysteria from Confederate statutes to Aunt Jemima syrup. The image of a modern African American woman is offensive? Seriously? I saw the revised bottle last week. Dull, boring, and sad. Aunt Jemima was erased from existence.

But the "offend" ball got rolling and there was no stopping it. Coincidentally(?), Disney announces the retheme of Splash. We need not go over the reasons again. That has been percolating under the surface for some time. However, in the current climate, I think it was easier for Disney to finally announce a retheme.

 

[Brer Oswald]

To clarify, when I talk about people feigning outrage, I’m talking about specific individuals who are vocally against Splash fans, and are now leading their follower base against them. I’ve specifically had positive conversations with them regarding the attraction, so the tone change is noticeable and hypocritical to me. I have no way of proving that “nobody has ever been offended by Splash Mountain”.

I have talked to people in the past who have suggested a retheme based on the hypocrisy of Disney regarding the unwillingness to acknowledge the film. And while I agreed that there was a problem with the hypocrisy, I’ve never been of the mind that they should throw the Rabbit out with the bath water.

 

[_caleb]

It makes people look better on social media when they denounce something that is deemed “racist” or otherwise “bad”. You see people do it all the time with the current President (it’s deserved, but why put extra attention on it, unless you’re farming for likes), different celebrities and accounts that engage in questionable or inappropriate behaviour, etc.

Why would they denounce something that they previously enjoyed? Simply put, while they may have enjoyed Splash, it is something they can live without, so why not take the golden opportunity to bash it while increasing your social media interactions and strengthening your brand.

It’s why I have little respect for the “influencers on DisTwitter”. They solely care about their brand and their interactions. It is of human nature to want to pick a target and attack. The Disney Fanbase has been given the golden target, Splash Mountain and it’s fans, that they can easily make fun of and dump on.

And if someone disagrees, they can just call them racist! It’s literally as easy as taking candy from a baby.

I know this has gone far beyond the actual retheme. But this event has caused some pretty nasty behaviour in the community, and it really needs to end. I appreciate that the users on here who disagree with my opinion aren’t like that. But it’s an extremely minimal percentage compared to the large Disney Fanbase on Twitter and Instagram.

Perhaps I’m preaching to the wrong crowd, but it’s only on here that I feel I can talk about this without being ruthlessly torn apart.

Thanks for engaging on this. I think you're right that there are some fickle and shallow people in the fandom (probably even more outside the fandom).

Do you think Disney is easily influenced by the influencers?

 

[JohnD]

Thanks for engaging on this. I think you're right that there are some fickle and shallow people in the fandom (probably even more outside the fandom).

Do you think Disney is easily influenced by the influencers?

Yes.

 

[_caleb]

Okay. I'll take a stab at it. But a deeper dive would require discussing in the politics thread. The political winds are blowing and Disney believes this is the path to least resistance. That's what you get with cancel culture. Someone declares they are offended by a product of Corporate X. Corporate X immediately gets on board to accommodate. Just look at over the summer the hysteria from Confederate statutes to Aunt Jemima syrup. The image of a modern African American woman is offensive? Seriously? I saw the revised bottle last week. Dull, boring, and sad. Aunt Jemima was erased from existence.

But the "offend" ball got rolling and there was no stopping it. Coincidentally(?), Disney announces the retheme of Splash. We need not go over the reasons again. That has been percolating under the surface for some time. However, in the current climate, I think it was easier for Disney to finally announce a retheme.

Thanks for your thoughts. I'm genuinely interested in this discussion, and I'm not looking for a fight. So I really appreciate avoiding the sarcasm and mocking tone that can put people on the defensive.

In your opinion, the complaints about Splash Mountain have little/no merit, but Disney thinks they do have merit? Or do you think Disney is just more scared of the complainers than they are of the anti-change people?

 

[Brer Oswald]

Thanks for engaging on this. I think you're right that there are some fickle and shallow people in the fandom (probably even more outside the fandom).

Do you think Disney is easily influenced by the influencers?

No I don’t. However, I think the Fanbase is VERY easily influenced by these influencers. We’ve seen it with the Chapek hate and the IP complaints. People on WDWMagic have been complaining about Chapek since 2015. A few notable influencers started popularizing these complaints on other platforms, and it took off. Now, the majority of online Disney fans hate this guy, and most don’t even know why.

The opposite is true with Josh D’Amaro. The DIS had some great personal interactions with him, and suddenly, Disney fans look at him as the new Walt.

This widespread acclaim or disdain for certain decisions can have an impact on Disney, but typically, it’s fairly minimal. Something like merchandise, not a full theme park attraction.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I have no way of proving that “nobody has ever been offended by Splash Mountain”.

One would think the sustained popularity of Splash Mountain over the decades would be enough proof that the majority of parks guests like the ride and its content are not a deterrent for people wanting to visit the park.

When Splash Mountain opened in 1989, it was shortly after the last re-release of Song of the South (in the USA). At that time, people had a reference for the scenes and characters, but as the movie faded into obscurity, the ride remained popular. That speaks to its strength as an attraction and shows how the public has come to view it as its own thing, separate from the movie, which can be enjoyed on its own merit.

 

[Brer Oswald]

One would think the sustained popularity of Splash Mountain over the decades would be enough proof that the majority of parks guests like the ride and its content are not a deterrent for people wanting to visit the park.

When Splash Mountain opened in 1989, it was shortly after the last re-release of Song of the South (in the USA). At that time, people had a reference for the scenes and characters, but as the movie faded into obscurity, the ride remained popular. That speaks to its strength as an attraction and shows how the public has come to view it as its own thing, separate from the movie, which can be enjoyed on its own merit.

Sure. It can be said, and easily backed up, that most people aren’t truly offended by the ride. But you can’t say that “all people aren’t”. There could be 2 people, and you’d have no way of testing that unless you have encountered those people.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The change of Splash Mountain is also an opportunity to push the franchise mandate within the parks by scrapping a ride based on an obscure movie form the 40s with another Princess property that can push merch. That aspect of the change can't be understated and is arguably the #1 reason for all of this, but the added context of "inclusiveness" can be used to further justify the change and dismiss objections.

And some of us are really off put when corporate inclusive measures start and end with the selling of more product, something Disney has been frequently guilty of when it comes to the LGBT community.

 

[Parker in NYC]

Sure. It can be said, and easily backed up, that most people aren’t truly offended by the ride. But you can’t say that “all people aren’t”. There could be 2 people, and you’d have no way of testing that unless you have encountered those people.

I want to know how much of the discussion was instigated by people who have never and would never visit the parks in the first place. Random thought.

 

[Brer Oswald]

I want to know how much of the discussion was instigated by people who have never and would never visit the parks in the first place. Random thought.

There probably is an amount of people who fit in that category. There are a good amount of people who dislike the Disney Company, and will take every opportunity to bash them.

The internet allows anyone to argue any point, regardless if they have the knowledge or experience to back it. It’s just that easy.

 

[Parker in NYC]

There probably is an amount of people who fit in that category. There are a good amount of people who dislike the Disney Company, and will take every opportunity to bash them.

The internet allows anyone to argue any point, regardless if they have the knowledge or experience to back it. It’s just that easy.

Well, I'm certainly guilty of the second point.

 

[Chi84]

I think it will be nice to have a more modern, updated theme for the ride. And if it adds to the diversity and inclusiveness of the parks that Disney is trying to achieve, all the better. The original theme doesn't even have to have anything wrong with it in order to warrant replacing it with something newer. I've seen PatF and it has some gorgeous pictures in it. I definitely expect it to be a pretty ride when Disney is done.

 

[Brer Oswald]

Well, I'm certainly guilty of the second point.

As am I. I try not to anymore, but we all get carried away occasionally.