News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[celluloid]

The current ride is already described as “a colorful Southern bayou” by Disney:

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/attractions/magic-kingdom/splash-mountain/

Of all the objections that people have expressed about the retheme, the one about clashing with Frontierland makes the least sense to me given that the land is already geographically discordant.

Space/geography is one aspect of a theme, what it evokes is another. The time period of princess and the frog is so far gone from the Frontier. It is actually closer to the present than Main Street USA. Mix the time and space both being off, you do not evoke the themes the way Frontierland current line up and it's content does. It may not make sense to you, but it has points to most.

 

[Bocabear]

Who Cares about the reality of Mountains or hill in a bayou... Would you prefer it just be a lot of stanchions, steel support girders and an undressed show building? The mountain has always looked great and even with a re-dress, it will still look fine. I don't think anyone is looking for absolute location accuracy here...Remember the "Jungle" and"Caribbean" are about 100 yards away... It will all fit fine when finished... And if we want to be ultra picky, What is a "Space Mountain"? Why is the Beast's French Castle exist across the walkway from the 7 Dwarfs German Gem mine? lol

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Who Cares about the reality of Mountains or hill in a bayou... Would you prefer it just be a lot of stanchions, steel support girders and an undressed show building? The mountain has always looked great and even with a re-dress, it will still look fine. I don't think anyone is looking for absolute location accuracy here...Remember the "Jungle" and"Caribbean" are about 100 yards away... It will all fit fine when finished... And if we want to be ultra picky, What is a "Space Mountain"? Why is the Beast's French Castle exist across the walkway from the 7 Dwarfs German Gem mine? lol

Agree. This will likely follow a similar track as with “Star Tours: The Adventures Continue“ or “Space Mountain: Ghost Galaxy”.

The more I’ve thought about it, I still think/hope given how synonymous Splash Mountain is with the park(s), we’ll likely get a new tag line tacked on like “Splash Mountain: Tiana and Louis’ Bayou Adventure” or whatever but I do think they’ll keep with the “Mountain” theme, regardless of whether it fully fits the “geography” or not.

 

[LittleBuford]

Space/geography is one aspect of a theme, what it evokes is another. The time period of princess and the frog is so far gone from the Frontier. It is actually closer to the present than Main Street USA. Mix the time and space both being off, you do not evoke the themes the way Frontierland current line up and it's content does. It may not make sense to you, but it has points to most.

The chronological argument doesn't work either when you consider the Country Bear Jamboree, which is very much a twentieth-century affair. As long as the exterior of the doesn't look modern or jazzy (and the concept art doesn't suggest it will), the thematic fit will be no worse than with the current version.

(For what it's worth, I will be very sorry to see Splash Mountain go, so I'm not posting this as someone opposed to the current version.)

 

[celluloid]

The chronological argument doesn't work either when you consider the Country Bear Jamboree, which is very much a twentieth-century affair. As long as the exterior of the doesn't look modern or jazzy (and the concept art doesn't suggest it will), the thematic fit will be no worse than with the current version.

(For what it's worth, I will be very sorry to see Splash Mountain go, so I'm not posting this as someone opposed to the current version.)

But what does it evoke? Country Bear Jamboree has songs that although were contemporary at the time of design, were humorous takes and tributes to the times of the covered wagons and advent of the train. That directly matches Walt's words for Frontierland. No one is saying everything is perfect, but those who say princess and the frog are further away have valid points to me. The argument and point is it for time and space but what does it evoke?

Star Tours in Tomorrowland can sound like a horrible fit, the first line is literally a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. That was pretty jarring to both Disneyland which has always been American Mythos, but then you realize it evokes space travel and action akin to buck Rogers serials.
No one is saying Princess and The Frog is the farthest off, but it is certainly further than anything previously a ride or attraction. I see that argument as valid. I see your points as valid, but for some reason you say "doesn't work" "does not make sense to you."
Brer rabbits story in the ride is literally moving along "Time to be.kving along" lines are used for this, and exploring in a time period of the covered wagon and pioneering railroads. I think it would be hard to say that fits Frontierland less than Princess and The Frog 1920s depression theming, but that is just me.

 

[LittleBuford]

But what does it evoke? Country Bear Jamboree has songs that although were contemporary at the time of design, were humorous takes and tributes to the times of the covered wagons and advent of the train. That directly matches Walt's words for Frontierland. No one is saying everything is perfect, but those who say princess and the frog are further away have valid points to me. The argument and point is it for time and space but what does it evoke?

Star Tours in Tomorrowland can sound like a horrible fit, the first line is literally a long time ago in a galaxy far far away. That was pretty jarring to both Disneyland which has always been American Mythos, but then you realize it evokes space travel and action akin to buck Rogers serials.
No one is saying Princess and The Frog is the farthest off, but it is certainly further than anything previously a ride or attraction. I see that argument as valid. I see your points as valid, but for some reason you say "doesn't work" "does not make sense to you."
Brer rabbits story in the ride is literally moving along "Time to be.kving along" lines are used for this, and exploring in a time period of the covered wagon and pioneering railroads. I think it would be hard to say that fits Frontierland less than Princess and The Frog 1920s depression theming, but that is just me.

These are valid points, though somewhat different from the "PatF doesn't fit" argument (which I'm not attributing to you). I agree that 1920s New Orleans is thematically more distant from the Frontier than is 1870s Georgia. But I don't think the disjuncture is as extreme as some are making out, and it needn't have a negative effect at all on the attraction's exterior.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

Honestly in Magic Kingdom they should just turn Liberty Square into the new “New Orleans Square”. If a sacrifice has to be made from the “attractions naughty list”, a “more contemporary” Hall of Presidents-style could be moved to Main Street (at the now cancelled Main Street Theater, in a similar location to Lincoln/style at Disneyland). That would be the location of a purpose built Tiana/P&TF attraction (Possibly a trackless ride system).

Everything from Haunted Mansion down to Diamond Horseshoe along the Rivers of America would then become part of MK’s NOS. Diamond Horseshoe/Liberty Tree Tavern would become Tiana’s Palace. Frontierland would begin at the Trading Post/CBJ area.

As for Disneyland, at least it would tie in to the existing adjacent NOS there. And you’d keep the arguably superior version of SM in MK all while boosting the park’s overall attraction count with a brand new princess attraction that would be suitable for ages/heights.

With TDL refusing to change their version the history of this attraction will never fully be scrapped anyway. Worst case scenario they can always revisit it with another IP, or wait for OLC to come around and do both together.

 

[hsisthebest]

The worst part is we won't have Ernest to test out the retheme.

 

[MisterPenguin]

But what does it evoke? Country Bear Jamboree has songs that although were contemporary at the time of design, were humorous takes and tributes to the times of the covered wagons and advent of the train.

Except none of the song alludes to anything frontierish in that manner.

Here's the intro:

Howdy folks! Welcome to the one and only, original, Country Bear Jamboree — featuring a bit of Americana, our musical heritage of the past ​

But there aren't any songs from the past. No songs about wagon trains or railroads or the wild frontier. Instead, gems like this...

​

One night, I left the wife at home,
And I went out with the boys.
I was acting like a Don Juan,
And making a lot of noise.​

​

ZEKE
Tell ’em, lover boy!​

​

ERNEST
A go-go girl caught my hand,
I said, “I can’t. I’m a married man.”
She said “If you ain’t gonna steal,
You better not prowl.”​

Go-go dancer? That's a 19th century turn of phrase?

The problem with MK's Frontierland is that it confuses "Southern" with "Frontier."

 

[tirian]

I’ve thought about this retheme for quite some time now....

I don’t particularly want either to go away, but of we ended up splitting the difference and only had Disneyland change it’s theme that wouldn’t be the worst compromise. Thematically you’re destroying Frontierland, but at least at DL you could stretch New Orleans square from pirates, through HM and over to a bayou themed area.

that’s less offensive at least to story and cohesion than just dropping the bayou next to thunder in Orlando

Since DL’s is in Critter Country, not FrL, it’s already easy to extend NOS into the bayou.

Orlando, however, would be a thematic disaster. The exterior rockwork of Florida’s Splash was already redesigned to fit into FrL even though the inside isn’t quite right for the Wild West; and today’s WDI doesn’t have the finesse to pull it off like they did in the early ‘90s.

I don’t want Splash to change at all, but if it must eventually change, dust off Marc Davis’ masterpiece and bring us a version of Western River Expedition. Before he died, he’d already adjusted insensitive jokes. The scenes are ready to be developed. I know, it’s a pipe dream.

 

[Brer Oswald]

The current ride is already described as “a colorful Southern bayou” by Disney:

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/attractions/magic-kingdom/splash-mountain/

Of all the objections that people have expressed about the retheme, the one about clashing with Frontierland makes the least sense to me given that the land is already geographically discordant.

I’ve explained this several times, and I’ll explain it again. Certain modifications to the setting and music were made to make it fit into Frontierland. This retheme is going to be a straight clone job. The concern for theming is justified.

Also, WDW Frontierland isn’t exactly “Westerland”. Country Bears doesn’t exactly fit “The West” as well as something like Thunder Mountain, And that was an opening day attraction.

 

[LittleBuford]

Orlando, however, would be a thematic disaster.

Could you explain how?

 

[Brer Oswald]

Except none of the song alludes to anything frontierish in that manner.

Here's the intro:

Howdy folks! Welcome to the one and only, original, Country Bear Jamboree — featuring a bit of Americana, our musical heritage of the past ​

But there aren't any songs from the past. No songs about wagon trains or railroads or the wild frontier. Instead, gems like this...

​

One night, I left the wife at home,​

And I went out with the boys.​

I was acting like a Don Juan,​

And making a lot of noise.​

​

ZEKE​

Tell ’em, lover boy!​

​

ERNEST​

A go-go girl caught my hand,​

I said, “I can’t. I’m a married man.”​

She said “If you ain’t gonna steal,​

You better not prowl.”​

Go-go dancer? That's a 19th century turn of phrase?

The problem with MK's Frontierland is that it confuses "Southern" with "Frontier."

It was “Old Southern Land” from the start.

 

[LittleBuford]

I’ve explained this several times, and I’ll explain it again. Certain modifications to the setting and music were made to make it fit into Frontierland. This retheme is going to be a straight clone job. The concern for theming is justified.

I know adjustments were made for the WDW version of Splash Mountain.

I still don’t understand why the rethemed exterior is such a concern. No-one has been able to offer a specific reason for their fear that Frontierland’s visual coherence will be compromised.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

I know adjustments were made for the WDW version of Splash Mountain.

I still don’t understand why the rethemed exterior is such a concern. No-one has been able to offer a specific reason for their fear that Frontierland’s visual coherence will be compromised.

From what I remember MK’s Splash is pretty much right in the middle of the land as it has Frontierland on both sides of the ride, unlike DL’s which is in a corner in it’s own land. So people are having a hard time seeing a Frontierland setting being split in the middle by a NOLA themed ride.

DL = Frontierland —>NOLA —-> Critter country.
MK= Frontierland —-> POTF —->back to Frontierland. With no actual land, just a ride.


There’s a lack of flow which is present in DL. Is it a big deal? We’ll that’s up to opinion. DL did it so well I see NOS & Critter Country as subsections of Frontierland connected by ROA.

 

[LittleBuford]

From what I remember MK’s Splash is pretty much right in the middle of the land as it has Frontierland on both sides of the ride, unlike DL’s which is in a corner in it’s own land. So people are having a hard time seeing a Frontierland setting being split in the middle by a NOLA themed ride.

DL = Frontierland —>NOLA —-> Critter country.
MK= Frontierland —-> POTF —->back to Frontierland.


There’s a lack of flow which is present in DL. Is it a big deal? We’ll that’s up to opinion. DL did it so well I see NOS & Critter Country as subsections of Frontierland connected by ROA.

I should make my question clearer. Leave aside the ride’s interior or the issue of whether Louisiana has hills. What is it specifically about the rethemed exterior that people are worried about? The concept art shows a tree with a boat in it—whimsical, yes, but in no way way aesthetically out of keeping with the rest of Frontierland, and nothing that by itself screams New Orleans.

 

[BubbaisSleep]

I should make my question clearer. Leave aside the ride’s interior or the issue of whether Louisiana has hills. What is it specifically about the rethemed exterior that people are worried about? The concept art shows a tree with a boat in it—whimsical, yes, but in no way way aesthetically out of keeping with the rest of Frontierland.

I think many saw the same concept are and simply think it does not fit in with Frontierland. Many don’t see a boat in a tree and a luscious swamp and think Frontierland. They also might have to change the color of the mountain, which wouldn’t match with the Frontierland aesthetic if so. So they would disagree with you. It’s a matter of opinion.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think many saw the same concept are and simply think it does not fit in with Frontierland. Many don’t see a boat in a tree and a luscious swamp and think Frontierland. They also might have to change the color of the mountain, which wouldn’t match with the Frontierland aesthetic if so. So they would disagree with you. It’s a matter of opinion.

Thank you for your answer. The aesthetic of the concept art reads as Southern to me, which is consistent with much of Frontierland’s existing look. But as you said, it’s a matter of opinion, and we won’t really know what the rethemed version will look like until they release more art.

 

[WDW Pro]

I should make my question clearer. Leave aside the ride’s interior or the issue of whether Louisiana has hills. What is it specifically about the rethemed exterior that people are worried about? The concept art shows a tree with a boat in it—whimsical, yes, but in no way way aesthetically out of keeping with the rest of Frontierland, and nothing that by itself screams New Orleans.

It evokes that "not nearly as expensive but still copying Typhoon Lagoon" motif that I'm sure they're going for.

 

[LittleBuford]

It evokes that "not nearly as expensive but still copying Typhoon Lagoon" motif that I'm sure they're going for.

I don’t get “tropical lagoon” from the concept art, but I guess it’s a matter of opinion.