News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[michmousefan]

Hahahahaha!!! Oh yeah, the PATF merch will be flying off the shelves! Just like in 2009 when this blockbuster came out! The PATF toys were the must have items that Christmas!

And OMG how they can't keep up with the PATF merch demand in every resort around the world!

It's fun to make believe!

All they need to do is come out with a limited-edition Louis popcorn bucket, and they will be fine with their revenue projections for merch.

 

[Mr. Moderate]

If some of you are so inclined, keep fighting for Splash Mountain. It’s not to late to save it. It’s not a racist ride. It’s based on African American Folk Tales. It’s the best ride at the parks.

Whatever Retheme they have planned can be easily changed to a brand new dark ride somewhere else on property. Somewhere that makes thematically sense and can give Tiana the land she deserves.

I've ben saying this for a longtime now to no avail. Just fix Splash slightly to remove certain things that some find offensive, but keep the spirt of the ride intact and leave it alone. Give Tiana her own land and at least two rides of her own, a neat restaurant to eat inspired by the movie, thus celebrating the film and what it stood for. This would be a solution that could work for everyone.

 

[celluloid]

Splash Mountain is based on Song of the South, which is based on the the Uncle Remus Tales, which were both appropriated and created by a white American man.

Just to clarify for those who misread this above, Uncle Remus is the creation of Joseph Chandler Harris. There was not a man he appropriated. It was a character he created to tell the stories. One can argue the stories were adapted, of course and you may not like it, just as one could JK Rowling changed Celtic lore and wizardry to fit an audience or argue any other adaption of work. It does not inherently make it wrong.

If he or those at Walt Disney Company were really appropriating or racist in personality or intention I think he would have a man of a different race of a host and would not make the character the wisest and biggest influencer of the youth.

 

[MisterPenguin]

It’s based on African American Folk Tales.

Which were originally just African folk tales, but with a Southern "b'rer" overlay.

Similar stories are found from all around the world, with some scholars pointing to Iran or India with the oldest version of the 'tar baby / briar patch' story.

Anyway, we've been through this: The characters are toxic because they're from SotS, which is racist, and not because the characters are racist (though, they're pretty derogatory to Appalachian 'hillbillies' -- and their 'Blackness' was stripped away in the animation).

Whatever virtue they may have had from being "an African American folk tale" is tainted by association with a racist movie.

Whatever could have been done to reboot them with a team of African story tellers and animators has long past.

It's not whether they're racist, it's their SotS source which makes them toxic.

And the African American community is not a monolithic community. While some may want the B'rer family to stay, many in the forefront of the BLM movement wanted them to go, which was the catalyst to announce that they're going.

 

[Californian Elitist]

so them you agree this ride really doesnt need to go and Tiana should get her own land/attraction... what i find somewhat comical is that before this "fake online outrage" has Tiana ever been even mentioned as a legit ride/attraction option? If so was Splash it? either way build something NEW and give the park some more capacity heck put her in HS where they need more rides or add her to MK not retheme a ride which literally attracts so many guests still even in it run down disgraceful shape

Correct, I agree that the ride should stay and I would prefer PatF get its own, special ride. There wasn’t sweeping online outrage about this. I think it’s pretty obvious that Disney had been looking at ways to get rid of Splash for a while, and this is what they came up with. What’s also obvious is their desire to completely separate themselves from SotS.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Just to clarify for those who misread this above, Uncle Remus is the creation of Joseph Chandler Harris. There was not a man he appropriated. It was a character he created to tell the stories. One can argue the stories were adapted, of course and you may not like it, just as one could JK Rowling changed Celtic lore and wizardry to fit an audience or argue any other adaption of work. It does not inherently make it wrong.

If he or those at Walt Disney Company were really appropriating or racist in personality or intention I think he would have a man of a different race of a host and would not make the character the wisest and biggest influencer of the youth.

That’s why I said Harris both appropriated and created the Uncle Remus Tales. The Brer stories are appropriated and he invented Uncle Remus. There is something wrong about taking from one culture to make a profit, especially a highly marginalized culture.

I don’t believe Walt Disney intended for the film to be racist. What exactly Uncle Remus influenced is questionable and can be debated, both the film and literary versions.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I don’t believe Walt Disney intended for the film to be racist.

Until he was told it was, then... I guess it was intentional.

 

[celluloid]

That’s why I said Harris both appropriated and created the Uncle Remus Tales. The Brer stories are appropriated and he invented Uncle Remus. There is something wrong about taking from one culture to make a profit, especially a highly marginalized culture.

The stories are different but not inherently wrong. You have quite an extreme take there to say that.


We don't go after Scholastic for Mother Goose storybook. Most folk tales in all cultures were created and passed on by the marginalized. It is not unique to the trickster story.

Forget that Mel Blanc and the Warner toons right?
Every fairytale ever.

Those stories were not created by the rich. They were created by European pesants most of the time. There is a reason there is a trope in those stories of the popular and wealthy being wicked or succomming to wickedness and the meek inheriting.

Your extreme take would have all of that gone.

 

[mickEblu]

Which were originally just African folk tales, but with a Southern "b'rer" overlay.

Similar stories are found from all around the world, with some scholars pointing to Iran or India with the oldest version of the 'tar baby / briar patch' story.

Anyway, we've been through this: The characters are toxic because they're from SotS, which is racist, and not because the characters are racist (though, they're pretty derogatory to Appalachian 'hillbillies' -- and their 'Blackness' was stripped away in the animation).

Whatever virtue they may have had from being "an African American folk tale" is tainted by association with a racist movie.

Whatever could have been done to reboot them with a team of African story tellers and animators has long past.

It's not whether they're racist, it's their SotS source which makes them toxic.

And the African American community is not a monolithic community. While some may want the B'rer family to stay, many in the forefront of the BLM movement wanted them to go, which was the catalyst to announce that they're going.

Well I’ll tell you who is a monolithic community- the millions of guests who continue riding Splash Mountain

 

[Californian Elitist]

The stories are different but not inherently wrong. You have quite an extreme take there to say that.


We don't go after Scholastic for Mother Goose storybook. Most folk tales in all cultures were created and passed on by the marginalized. It is not unique to the trickster story.

Forget that Mel Blanc and the Warner toons right?
Every fairytale ever.

Those stories were not created by the rich. They were created by European pesants most of the time. There is a reason there is a trope in those stories of the popular and wealthy being wicked or succomming to wickedness and the meek inheriting.

Your extreme take would have all of that gone.

I didn’t say all the stories were wrong, though I can and do believe that he made up some of those stories. What I did say was wrong is the appropriation of the stories for profit.

We’re not talking about Mother Goose, or any other European stories. We’re talking about African/African American stories that were appropriated by a white man for profit, all while the slaves he got the stories from received nothing in return.

Not sure what Mel Blanc and Warner Bros have to do with anything. It would appear that you don’t actually know and understand my stance on this topic.

 

[celluloid]

Well I’ll tell you who is a monolithic community- the millions of guests who keep riding Splash Mountain

And Disney leaders who tout something is coming but never often do.

Anyone enjoying the Play Pavilion?

 

[celluloid]

I didn’t say all the stories were wrong, though I can and do believe that he made up some of those stories. What I did say was wrong is the appropriation of the stories for profit.

We’re not talking about Mother Goose, or any other European stories. We’re talking about African/African American stories that were appropriated by a white man for profit, all while the slaves he got the stories from received nothing in return.

Not sure what Mel Blanc and Warner Bros have to do with anything. It would appear that you don’t actually know and understand my stance on this topic.

Do you think Bugs Bunny is another form of the Trickster? That should explain that. No need to insult my intellect.
Your extreme take, which was any story based on tales of stories from a marginalized group adapted for profit are inherently wrong. That would include mother goose and the likes of other published adaptions of folk tales and legends.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Do you think Bugs Bunny is. It another form of the Trickster? That should explain that. No need to insult my intellect.
Your extreme take, which was any story based on tales of stories from a marginalized group adapted for profit are inherently wrong. That would include mother goose and the likes of other published adaptions of folk tales and legends.

Insult your intellect? What?

I don’t believe it’s an extreme take at all, especially given the context. But you’re free to your opinion. There’s no comparison with Mother Goose.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

so them you agree this ride really doesnt need to go and Tiana should get her own land/attraction... what i find somewhat comical is that before this "fake online outrage" has Tiana ever been even mentioned as a legit ride/attraction option? If so was Splash it? either way build something NEW and give the park some more capacity heck put her in HS where they need more rides or add her to MK not retheme a ride which literally attracts so many guests still even in it run down disgraceful shape

I’ve been hearing calls for a Tianas Place restaurant in New Orleans Square for as long as I can remember, that would be a perfect fit and makes too much sense for Disney though.

 

[celluloid]

Insult your intellect? What?

I don’t believe it’s an extreme take at all, especially given the context. But you’re free to your opinion. There’s no comparison with Mother Goose.

Maybe it is not as extreme as it comes off. But you can't possibly think that the Joseph Chandler Harris stories are the only examples of marginalized culture that should be removed. You state Mother Goose Rhymes would not apply to that concept you present. So could you share some.other examples where you feel the captilization of marginalized folklore for profit by other cultures has happened that should be removed?

 

[ᗩLᘿᑕ ✨ ᗩζᗩᗰ]

Anyone enjoying the Play Pavilion?

I did. About 20 years ago when it was in Downtown Disney.

 

[Californian Elitist]

Maybe it is not as extreme as it comes off. But you can't possibly think that the Joseph Chandler Harris stories are the only examples of marginalized culture that should be removed. So could you share some.other examples where you feel the captilization of marginalized folklore for profit by other cultures has happened that should be removed?

I never said they were the only example. You’re the only bringing up Mother Goose and Bugs Bunny lol.

I also never said they should be removed. I have a copy of a collection of the Uncle Remus Tales by Harris at home that I don’t intend to get rid of.

 

[celluloid]

I did. About 20 years ago when it was in Downtown Disney.

We are about 20 years from the indoor one at EPCOT at this rate.

Side note The old Disney Village playground was wild and I miss the Kilidescope that was once at DTD.

 

[celluloid]

I never said they were the only example. You’re the only bringing up Mother Goose and Bugs Bunny lol.

I also never said they should be removed. I have a copy of a collection of the Uncle Remus Tales by Harris at home that I don’t intend to get rid of.

So that does mean you feel they should not be removed, but are ad enough to be inherently wrong or you are indifferent to have them in your library. It is confusing and I am trying to understand this stance.

 

[Californian Elitist]

So that does mean you feel they should not be removed, but are ad enough to be inherently wrong or you are indifferent to have them in your library. It is confusing and I am trying to understand this stance.

I’m saying that I’m not a fan of what Harris did. That’s all. I don’t think his writings should be destroyed, never read, etc. I have both a Bachelor’s and a Master’s in English. I don’t support and will never support banning books. I just wrote a thesis on how to go about teaching one of the most notorious books in American literature history in college courses. I have studied a bit of Harris and the Uncle Remus Tales. I don’t approve of what Harris did, but his work has a place in both American history and American literature history. Again, I have no plans to ever get rid of my personal copy and would teach the Uncle Remus Tales for a course if I ever got the chance.