I see what you're saying but Splash Mountain is already in an awkward position in the MK now, because how does Georgia currently fit next to Monument Valley Arizona Big Thunder? I really think were overthinking this! I'm sure the Imagineers are aware of this.
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
- Thread starter wdwmagic
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I see what you're saying but Splash Mountain is already in an awkward position in the MK now, because how does Georgia currently fit next to Monument Valley Arizona Big Thunder? I really think were overthinking this! I'm sure the Imagineers are aware of this.
TP2000
Well-Known Member
From the tenured Imagineer I spoke with at a party yesterday, after he'd had a few drinks, Imagineers are fully aware of that. And they laugh at it. Not with it, at it.
Their main goal is to design something that makes sense for Disneyland. And whatever the execs du jour in Orlando decide to do with it out in the swamps, the Imagineers could really care less but are happy for the "job number" to charge it all off to in order to get themselves an extra year or two of work.
And that is fine but as Disney purists/hardcore fans, a lot of us are thinking literally when it comes to Splash Mountain placement. The Imagineers will find a way to make a PatF themed Mountain fit. It's not that serious. We need to lighten up, its a theme park flume ride.
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tl77
Well-Known Member
I joined this site few years ago because I heard that Fantasyland was getting several new attractions themed to Tinker Bell's Pixie Hollow, and Cinderella's Chateau was going to be added just outside the new castle walls (like it is in the movie) and that Sleeping Beauty's cottage would also be there... I was looking online for more info on it, because I thought my 3 nieces would love all that... but then I found out it all got cancelled for being "too girly"? ...I guess no one thought that the term "too girly" was offensive 10 years ago...
Anyway, the nieces ended up loving Splash Mountain instead. Our only problem with it was the height requirement, because the youngest one who would probably most enjoy all the singing animals couldn't ride, and we also had to split up our group... but I'm wondering, is it really wise to turn a "gender neutral thrill ride" into a "princess themed thrill ride with a height requirement"? Little girls who want to see the Tiana ride will have to be at least 40 inches tall and "may get wet on this ride", and will little boys still want to ride it at all? Won't it be "too girly"
The fact that it doesn't "thematically" fit in Magic Kingdom's Frontierland is another issue I have with it... What's there now in Splash Mountain (whether you like it or not) is "Classic Disney Songs and Animation" based on "Genuine American Folk Lore", but it's mostly characters from the old America Sings attraction which was all about "America's Musical Legacy". So wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to remove the Song of the South characters and make it completely like America Sings? Or replace the Song of the South Characters with some other "Classic Disney Songs and Animation" based on "Genuine American Folk Lore" like Johnny Appleseed, Pecos Bill, Slue-Foot Sue, John Henry the Steel Driving Man and Polly, Casey Jones the Brave Engineer, Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox? ...I'd prefer that myself
...also Fun Fact: Disney Legend Thurl Ravenscroft is the voice of Disney's Paul Bunyan
Anyway, the nieces ended up loving Splash Mountain instead. Our only problem with it was the height requirement, because the youngest one who would probably most enjoy all the singing animals couldn't ride, and we also had to split up our group... but I'm wondering, is it really wise to turn a "gender neutral thrill ride" into a "princess themed thrill ride with a height requirement"? Little girls who want to see the Tiana ride will have to be at least 40 inches tall and "may get wet on this ride", and will little boys still want to ride it at all? Won't it be "too girly"
The fact that it doesn't "thematically" fit in Magic Kingdom's Frontierland is another issue I have with it... What's there now in Splash Mountain (whether you like it or not) is "Classic Disney Songs and Animation" based on "Genuine American Folk Lore", but it's mostly characters from the old America Sings attraction which was all about "America's Musical Legacy". So wouldn't it just be cheaper and easier to remove the Song of the South characters and make it completely like America Sings? Or replace the Song of the South Characters with some other "Classic Disney Songs and Animation" based on "Genuine American Folk Lore" like Johnny Appleseed, Pecos Bill, Slue-Foot Sue, John Henry the Steel Driving Man and Polly, Casey Jones the Brave Engineer, Paul Bunyan and Babe the Blue Ox? ...I'd prefer that myself
...also Fun Fact: Disney Legend Thurl Ravenscroft is the voice of Disney's Paul Bunyan
Surferboy567
Well-Known Member
Was trying to alude to this last night but here you go...
From the DL Fourms...grain of salt and all that
EDIT: I don’t remember him saying losing 40 attractions...it was late though and I could be wrong.
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TJJohn12
Well-Known Member
I don’t know Jim’s recent batting average, but this isn’t sounding too far afield from what I’d expect: introduce the villain early, have the hero blissfully unaware of him for a long portion of the ride, then fight him off/trick him at the last minute.
Surferboy567
Well-Known Member
He is all over the place in terms of getting things correct. He however, does have a solid record of being right.
He also mentioned some other...adjustments.
This seems very plausible at least to me though, can totally see this happening. They HAVE to use going down the bayou though it’s too perfect not to use it.
jt04
Well-Known Member
A solution for MK isn't difficult. Plenty of ways they could go from expanding Adventureland theming to relocating portions of the western theming.
I keep mentioning a potential transition for the area, just Google Red River of the South. It enters the Mississippi River delta region in southern Louisiana. Something as simple as going from the hub to Liberty Square would work. IMO.
This is all driven by:
- Song of the South association must go. No saving it.
- Replacement must be "more Disney", and by "more Disney" they're talking about a popular IP that they want to promote. The American folktales had their day and their popularity is gone.
- Make it work first and foremost in Disneyland. Putting a New Orleans based IP next to a New Orleans mini-land is a no-brainer.
- Cloning it to MK is to save money on re-imagineering some other re-theme (which is costly). Any detriment to overall theme of the land is WDW's problem, and generally, WDW doesn't mind such inconsistencies. I could tick of a dozen such things in MK. Hopefully, one day, WDW will care and fix some of them.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
He doesn’t say it directly but says something along the lines that DL and WDW will have close to the same amount of AAs.
peter11435
Well-Known Member
Which doesn’t necessarily mean that Disneyland is loosing 40 figures. Could be less or far more.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
From what I understand WDWs only has around 60 AAs. So if he is to believed then DLs would top out around 60 AAs as well. It currently has just over 100. But yeah it could lose more.
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_caleb
Well-Known Member
If WDW gets the short end of the stick, I think it’s their own fault. They could pay as much attention to sight lines and area theming as Disneyland does, but they don’t. They’re happy with clones, abandoned attractions, stagnation/neglect, and poor use of transition space in a way that Disneyland’s AP/locals don’t go for (except maybe the PeopleMover track). I blame management.
I thought maybe you’d be happy to hear that the overlay would mean minimal changes to the ride layout itself? I’m not part of any Twitter mob, but as someone who is looking forward to the changes, I’m pleased that they’re keeping the ride mostly intact and looking forward to seeing what they’re doing with the PatF storyline.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
I didn't listen to the podcast and don't care about Jim Hill. Some of those bullet points just sound like logical assumptions, even without having any inside information. I've speculated some of the same things. Including my assessment that it's losing tons of AA's, and that the final lift will use Facilier's shadow.
And they're almost certainly removing more than 40. That seems low, I wouldn't even assume they'll retain 5 of the current ones. Almost none of the current AA's fit with the PATF designs/proportions. Only the smaller simpler figures such as the hanging possums or Mr Bluebird, Brer Roadrunner and the laughing turtles from WDW might be able to work. But as for the vast quantity of larger bipedal birds, frogs, foxes, dogs, rabbits, pigs, cats etc etc... I can't imagine them not being scrapped.
There will probably be a tiny handful of new figures (maybe 5-10 total if very lucky) for Tiana, Naveen, Louis and MAYBE Mama Odie. Facilier will likely only be a shadow projection on the final lift. If they add other new animals, i'd guess they generally won't be actual AA's. Rather a mixture of static mannequins and simple moving figures ala Little Mermaid. That's assuming they don't just use projections for everything...
Disneyland's AA's are in the mid-high 60s. WDW's doesn't have quite as many as DL, but they're quite close (mid to high 50s). The pages that claim WDW has 68 and DL over 100 are incorrect, i've closely analyzed the rides in the past and counted the figures myself. Not sure where those numbers came from.
And they're almost certainly removing more than 40. That seems low, I wouldn't even assume they'll retain 5 of the current ones. Almost none of the current AA's fit with the PATF designs/proportions. Only the smaller simpler figures such as the hanging possums or Mr Bluebird, Brer Roadrunner and the laughing turtles from WDW might be able to work. But as for the vast quantity of larger bipedal birds, frogs, foxes, dogs, rabbits, pigs, cats etc etc... I can't imagine them not being scrapped.
There will probably be a tiny handful of new figures (maybe 5-10 total if very lucky) for Tiana, Naveen, Louis and MAYBE Mama Odie. Facilier will likely only be a shadow projection on the final lift. If they add other new animals, i'd guess they generally won't be actual AA's. Rather a mixture of static mannequins and simple moving figures ala Little Mermaid. That's assuming they don't just use projections for everything...
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But that's just it it's not minimal changes it's drastic changes with an overlay that will look minimalist. Ripping out set pieces, AAs, etc with only a sprinkling of Patf additions. The exact opposite of what we want. And the supposed plot, gah! It's terrible. I'd be all for minimal changes and keeping most of Splash the same but that sounds unlikely given the latest rumors, especially if they're going to rip out 40+ figures. It's still a downgrade. Patf deserves better and so does Splash.
mickEblu
Well-Known Member
Are you sure about that? I feel like I always see that 100# thrown around for DL.
Yeah many of the bullet points had already been assumed and or hoped for by myself and others. If they are following all the same story beats as Splash I don’t see why they need to remove many AAs. Of course, the one issue I see is that they ll need to use the same scale of the animals in PatF but the fact that Tiana and Naveen aren’t frogs help and this can be solved with good staging. Louis is a gigantic walking alligator so in that vein I don’t see why we can’t have dogs and geese that are also large but smaller than he is. Also I want to clarify when I say keep most of the AAs I’m not talking about them being repurposed. I’m saying literally keep the exact AAs in their current spots as much possible. Fit PatF around Splash Mountain.
The ride already evokes the whole Bayou theme. Just replace the first Brer Bear and Brer Fox with Tiana and Naveen and have them again in the finale. The rest of the way it’s Louis and most of the current AAs (except the Brer Trio). The Burrows lament AAs would also need to go or be repurposed but I really don’t see why they have to get rid of all the generic AAs present In How do You Do, Lauging Place or Zip a dee doo dah. Sure some need to be removed for them to tell this new story effectively but I believe the vast majority can be kept if they wanted to. Splash Mountain is a classic attraction and they should aim to make this ride Splash Mountain featuring Princess and the Frog as much as possible.
I also think Dr Facilier and his ghouls will only be projections but that makes sense. I wouldn’t expect more than 8 AAs. Two Tianas, 1 or 2 Naveens. Three or Four Louis’ (with a couple of them maybe being more like figures with limited movement than AAs) and 1 Mama Odie. I love how I’m talking about these characters like I know them. I ve seen this movie once 6 years ago.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I’ve seen you mention the design/proportion thing before. Would you please elaborate on this? The design of PatF is clearly different than that of American Sings and Splash, but it seems like this might be addressed with an overlay? Just trying to understand the perspective that the current AAs won’t work.
aladdin2007
Well-Known Member
and also far less for them to take care of and upkeep,,that's all they care about now. Which is why the great movie ride got the ax instead of an upgrade, different reasoning than splash I know but internally and in the long run that's their goal with everything I feel and more or less the real reason for the change even though they will use the splash theme issue as an excuse up the river. As much less "physical" pieces as possible, more tech instead. and I totally agree with you. I can't help but think even though the ride track will remain as is its going to feel much shorter with a lot less to look at,,,we of course don't know yet exactly but that I think its the trend sadly.
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