News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure

[SamusAranX]

Whether or not YOU approve is irrelevant - both to Disney and to the conversation of whether or not the ride actually is problematic.

(It is problematic.)

You saying it’s problematic is just your opinion.

 

[SamusAranX]

I very much doubt it, for two reasons:

1. It's a pretty bad movie, except for the animated sequences.

2. It's Disney, and therefore expected to be suitable for children.

These conditions make the film far more difficult to redeem than, say, Gone with the Wind, which is a critically acclaimed movie primarily aimed at adult audiences.

You right. Better stop all those children from being indoctrinated into racism by riding that.

 

[seabreezept813]

I very much doubt it, for two reasons:

1. It's a pretty bad movie, except for the animated sequences.

2. It's Disney, and therefore expected to be suitable for children.

These conditions make the film far more difficult to redeem than, say, Gone with the Wind, which is a critically acclaimed movie primarily aimed at adult audiences.

Maybe Gone With the Wind wasn’t the best example.. maybe I just have a mom who watches a lot of TCM.. but most movies of that age had very questionable artistic styles (think blackface). Holiday Inn, Yankee Doodle, Shirley Temple that were created for a family audience. These films are still shown regularly with historians talking ahead of time about the value in what is created but also the glaring problems we would take offense to today. The Music Man and Hello Dolly (major influences and music style for Main St USA) have some scenes that would be offensive for Native Americans and women. If you do a deep dive it’s seen in most cinema of that era.

 

[skypilot2922]

Maybe Gone With the Wind wasn’t the best example.. maybe I just have a mom who watches a lot of TCM.. but most movies of that age had very questionable artistic styles (think blackface). Holiday Inn, Yankee Doodle, Shirley Temple that were created for a family audience. These films are still shown regularly with historians talking ahead of time about the value in what is created but also the glaring problems we would take offense to today. The Music Man and Hello Dolly (major influences and music style for Main St USA) have some scenes that would be offensive for Native Americans and women. If you do a deep dive it’s seen in most cinema of that era.

Cinema is a reflection of its time

 

[Kirby86]

Cinema is a reflection of its time.

Yup I can't agree more. Films and Novels are really time capsules of where the world was at the time they were written or filmed.

 

[LittleBuford]

You right. Better stop all those children from being indoctrinated into racism by riding that.

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this comment, or how it relates to my post.

 

[LittleBuford]

Maybe Gone With the Wind wasn’t the best example.. maybe I just have a mom who watches a lot of TCM.. but most movies of that age had very questionable artistic styles (think blackface). Holiday Inn, Yankee Doodle, Shirley Temple that were created for a family audience. These films are still shown regularly with historians talking ahead of time about the value in what is created but also the glaring problems we would take offense to today. The Music Man and Hello Dolly (major influences and music style for Main St USA) have some scenes that would be offensive for Native Americans and women. If you do a deep dive it’s seen in most cinema of that era.

You’re not telling me anything I don’t already know. How many children today routinely watch those films? For better or worse, the Disney brand brings with it a certain set of expectations that make it much harder to give a film like Song of the South the TCM treatment.

 

[TikibirdLand]

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this comment, or how it relates to my post.

I think they're trying to find anything that's racist about the current ride. Without context of the movie tie-in, I have trouble finding that too... Unless you'd seen the movie (unlikely, since it's been buried for decades) or read commentary about it (more likely), I'm not sure one would even know about SoS. And, they'd miss the wonderful performance of James Baskett as Uncle Remus. But, I digress.

 

[Incomudro]

You saying it’s problematic is just your opinion.

The term "problematic" makes me bristle.

 

[Incomudro]

Honestly, I think Frontierland as a whole might be eyed for a retheme, as Disney may see it as representing the Native American genocide that happened when settlers moved out west. If Splash Mountain is being rethemed, Disney may want to retheme the area around it in Magic Kingdom so that it doesn't feel out of place.

Next up: Liberty Square
That bastion of Colonialism lead by old white males.
Followed by: Main Street
That lily white idyllic moment in time.

There was a time when I would say those things entirely in jest.
Now, it doesn't seem far fetched at all.

 

[SamusAranX]

I don’t understand what you’re trying to say with this comment, or how it relates to my post.

Looking at the context of your post, I realized you were referring to SotS not SM. My apologies

 

[Disney Analyst]

Honestly, I think Frontierland as a whole might be eyed for a retheme, as Disney may see it as representing the Native American genocide that happened when settlers moved out west. If Splash Mountain is being rethemed, Disney may want to retheme the area around it in Magic Kingdom so that it doesn't feel out of place.

I think Disney could keep Frontierland IF they add some educational aspects that discuss the history. Edutainment of sorts.

The issue I have is when they romanticize the past in a way that further hinders people today. Let’s keep it light, but not shy away from being truthful on what the “Wild West” was.

 

[LittleBuford]

I think Disney could keep Frontierland IF they add some educational aspects that discuss the history. Edutainment of sorts.

The issue I have is when they romanticize the past in a way that further hinders people today. Let’s keep it light, but not shy away from being truthful on what the “Wild West” was.

I don’t think it’s possible to do what you’re suggesting without introducing some pretty heavy topics that would both clash with the escapism of the Magic Kingdom and be poorly (even inappropriately) framed by it.

 

[Disney Analyst]

I don’t think it’s possible to do what you’re suggesting without introducing some pretty heavy topics that would both clash with the escapism of the Magic Kingdom and be poorly (even inappropriately) framed by it.

Then I agree with that poster that it may end up going one day.

 

[Phil12]

You saying it’s problematic is just your opinion.

It's also the opinion of TWDC and hence the attraction will undergo a complete re-theme.

 

[LittleBuford]

Then I agree with that poster that it may end up going one day.

I don't see how the theme is inherently more problematic than that of Adventureland. They would pretty much have to bulldoze and rebuild the whole park if things got to the point where Frontierland was deemed inherently unacceptable (which I hope doesn't happen).

 

[Ghost93]

I don’t think it’s possible to do what you’re suggesting without introducing some pretty heavy topics that would both clash with the escapism of the Magic Kingdom and be poorly (even inappropriately) framed by it.

This is why, in retrospect, it's probably a good idea that the Disney's America theme park in Virginia didn't happen. Disney would have never found a way to accurately portray history while simultaneously offering fun amusement park escapism. While Disney's America was an intriguing idea, the Disney company would have inevitably been dragged into nonstop culture war issues between the left and the right over how it tells America's history.

So with Frontierland, Disney either has to hope most people don't consider its implications (as it has done for the past 50+ years) or it will have to one day change it to avoid backlash.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Next up: Liberty Square
That bastion of Colonialism lead by old white males.
Followed by: Main Street
That lily white idyllic moment in time.

There was a time when I would say those things entirely in jest.
Now, it doesn't seem far fetched at all.

Liberty Square should go away. I think a re-design of Liberty Square and Frontierland is in order, in part because of some divisive attractions (Splash, Hall of Presidents, Country Bears, Tom Sawyer), but also in part because the long term expansion choices around those themes are tough. My suggestion was to make land bridges connecting Mansion to Tom Sawyer Island and Tom Sawyer Island to Thunder, condense Frontierland to the Thunder and former Tom Sawyer Island footprint and call the area from Mansion to Splash "Riverfront Square". Lean into riverfront themes and food and permanently dock the Riverboat near Splash as a live music / entertainment venue.

 

[Haymarket2008]

Liberty Square should go away. I think a re-design of Liberty Square and Frontierland is in order, in part because of some divisive attractions (Splash, Hall of Presidents, Country Bears, Tom Sawyer), but also in part because the long term expansion choices around those themes are tough. My suggestion was to make land bridges connecting Mansion to Tom Sawyer Island and Tom Sawyer Island to Thunder, condense Frontierland to the Thunder and former Tom Sawyer Island footprint and call the area from Mansion to Splash "Riverfront Square". Lean into riverfront themes and food and permanently dock the Riverboat near Splash as a live music / entertainment venue.

Liberty Square is pure magic. A stunning thing created by old school WDI. I hope it never goes away.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Liberty Square is pure magic. A stunning thing created by old school WDI. I hope it never goes away.

I think Liberty Square is one of the best themed areas in the world. I also think Hall of Presidents should go away and Tom Sawyer Island is a large waste of space. Disney is also changing Splash Mountain and I'd prefer them to not have an attraction based in Louisiana located in the Frontierland section of the park, hence my suggestion. I don't think a substantial theme change would take place, but a name change and a replacement show in the HoP theater would go along way to the re-design.