Honestly I wouldn't be shocked if it was revealed that PatF was considered for Splash back when PatF was released in theaters.
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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - Tiana's Bayou Adventure
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Chi84
Premium Member
The petitions don’t matter. If they did, from what I’ve heard, the petition against changing Splash got tons more signatures. The petitions don’t matter because this is a change Disney wants. Just as they wanted to distance themselves from the movie that gave rise to the characters. There were no petitions to lock SotS in a vault. Like it or not, this is something Disney wants to do.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
And I'm supposed to assume it's just a coincidence that Disney thought up the exact same idea as Frederick Chambers and his fans did? Not to mention there's the whole "they initially brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop" thing. If they suddenly consider it successful enough for a ride now, how come they still gave up on hand-drawn animation?
_caleb
Well-Known Member
Ideas and rumors of rethemes are constantly floating around the internet. Chambers has said that his armchair imagineering was inspired by a loved one, who was convinced the Brer theme is problematic. You can be sure Disney has at least some proof that the idea had been circulating WDI independent of Chambers’s idea and didn’t just rip him off–otherwise, they’d be open to a law suit.
Please stop saying “Disney brushed off The Princess and the Frog as a flop,“ because it’s simply not true. The film was a success at the box office, and a runaway success with Disney’s Black audience, who had never had representation among the princesses until Tiana.
There was some hope (on the part of Disney Animation) that The Princess and the Frog would rekindle audience’s love of hand-drawn animation. Lassiter wanted the film to usher in a renaissance of traditional animation (for PatF they used pen and paper and then digitized into ToonBoom Harmony animation software). But the film wasn’t a Frozen-level cultural phenomenon, and Disney determined that the success of PatF was not due to the animation style, but rather to the story, characters, and charm.
The success of Princess and the Frog led Disney to greenlight Winnie the Pooh, which was Disney’s last hand-drawn feature (2011), with the division being closed permanently in 2013. Maybe you should blame Pooh for the demise of hand-drawn.
The reason computer generated animation is preferred to hand-drawn these days is that it is faster and cheaper to produce and results in reusable assets. Digital animation is like virtual puppeteering- character models, textures, sets, lighting, and physics can all be reused (in sequels, commercials, video games, toy modeling, Christmas specials for Disney+, etc.). This makes investment in computer-generated animation much more appealing to big studios.
PATF and Tiana are long over due for proper representation in the parks. It should have happened years ago. Unfortunately it did not. WDW really needs to dedicate a hefty budget to make sure they don’t half a$$ the retheme or both sides of the fence will be left feeling empty. I am not terribly confident. Perpetual cost cutting and operating as lean as possible from corp to parks is a dangerously contagious path to misguided short term thinking.
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
"Get over it?" Forgive me for not being happy that a ride I really like is being rethemed and not buying Disney's claim that they're doing this out of the good of their hearts or whatever. Would you be saying the same thing if this were any attraction other than Splash Mountain?
peter11435
Well-Known Member
Out of curiosity... if you don’t buy their claim, then why do you think they are doing it?
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
Well, for one thing, Bob Iger really hates Song of the South. He's probably really desperate to scrub their hands of it.
And I'm still thinking this could be because of the petitions. Didn't somebody here claim this was because Disney was afraid of a Disney+ boycott?
LittleBuford
Well-Known Member
I think you’re allowing your personal displeasure (which is totally legitimate) to dominate your assessment of the situation. One can strongly dislike a particular decision without insisting that theirs is the only correct or reasonable perspective.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
It was not. Saying so is revisionist history. It made $267 million worldwide, on a $105 million budget, not including marketing (less than Brother Bear when adjusting for inflation). Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakquel made $443 million that same holiday season.
Enchanted two years earlier made $340 million worldwide on an $85 million budget. Disney likely felt that a REAL animated princess movie (not just live-action with 15 minutes of animation) from the directors of Little Mermaid and Aladdin, would do even better, but it didn't.
Disney panicked and decided not to move forward with another hand drawn feature. Pooh was already in development, being released about 18 months later. It was also the reason why Rapunzel, due to be released the following year, was renamed to Tangled in North America. It was feared that the word princess in the title would again put off boys (whether or not that was the real reason it underperformed, we'll never know).
The movie was, and still is, however able to do well in merch sales on the back of the Disney Princess brand, Tiana benefiting from being its only black character.
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Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
It probably was, but dismissed when the film did not meet Disney's internal expectations.
But when deciding what movie to replace SotS with on Splash Mountain in 2020, it made the most sense based on the company's narrow franchise criteria (at least for Disneyland in California).
_caleb
Well-Known Member
In what world is a film that makes $160 profit not a success?
Now, if you mean “not as successful as it could have been” or “not as successful as Disney would have liked,” then I would agree.
Totally agree about the naming and marketing of PatF. As well as the film did at the box office and has done in merch, I think it could have done much better if they’d handled that differently.
Animaniac93-98
Well-Known Member
Movies need to make double their budget (production + marketing) to recoup their costs to account for the split between what movie theaters collect and what goes back to production company itself. It's why Disney has been more aggressive about collecting a higher % of their share in recent years.
It's unlikely PatF did on box office alone, but probably did after DVD sales. Overall, I'm sure Disney expected much better after years of hype. I remember when the first teaser was released in 2007. It was a big deal to see Disney go back to hand drawn animation. It's also possible that the foreign BO for PatF was seen as a much bigger disappointment than its domestic run.
seabreezept813
Well-Known Member
I’d say it’s a way to sell a new ride without the effort of designing and building something new.. this is a definite Disney pattern.. plus more princesses!
The success of PATF is not really relevant here. Tiana belongs in the parks. And more than a float in a parade. I am not happy Splash is being replaced but I hope WDW does right by the retheme (doubtful). I am also not happy that WDW chose to base the ride off a film they knew had baggage. Now the long term impact is a classic attraction will be rethemed due to ignorant decision making. I will also be disappointed that Tiana is not with the other princesses. This would have been avoided if WDW did the right thing when this attraction was built.
Any insiders care to share details with regards to retheme plans? What plans do they have to integrate a ride themed in the bayou and how to make it fit the Frontierland theme? Will BTRR ever get the lift effect that DL resort put in a few years ago? I’d rather discuss the attraction in place of taking in circles.
Any insiders care to share details with regards to retheme plans? What plans do they have to integrate a ride themed in the bayou and how to make it fit the Frontierland theme? Will BTRR ever get the lift effect that DL resort put in a few years ago? I’d rather discuss the attraction in place of taking in circles.
There's really nothing to discuss specifically about the attraction because nothing has actually been revealed except that one piece of concept art. Plus the fact Disneyland is still closed and Tokyo seemingly has no plans to remodel their Splash.
Plus it's doing what they've wanted to do for a while, ditch Song of the South once and for all
doctornick
Well-Known Member
Related to PatF, as I was watching a trailer recently, it struck me Soul potentially seems to suffer from a similar problem... that main character who is Black apparently will spend most of the movie not as a human. It will be interesting if that really is the case given the criticism towards PatF for that execution.
I think it was said Tiana would be human when seen on the ride
Brer Panther
Well-Known Member
I just thought of something - if Disney isn't doing this because they believe that the ride is racist, why are we arguing over whether or not the ride is racist in the first place?
But she wouldn't actually be in the ride that much, most of it would be Louis running around trying to find his trumpet.
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