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News Splash Mountain retheme to Princess and the Frog - attraction discussion only

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
What are you talking about? The author of A Wrinkle in Time was white. So the characters were not created by African Americans.

I actually met the author so yeah, I'm aware she was white. I speak of the adaptation by Disney via the "director" Ava DuVernay, whose adaptation was garbage. She made changes to the story, not to enhance it for the screen, but to push her political agenda. She thought the characters were too white. She thought the storyline wasn't woke enough. She filled a thoughtful, imaginative, emotionally-driven tale with unnecessary preachy "empowerment" tripe. Thus ruining it. I have no patience with that kind of crap. I CAN see the issues with the original film "Song of the South". But I agree with Whoopee Goldberg that the film should be shown. There is much that is very good in it. A little judicial editing would, IMO, solve most of the issues some have with it. I think it's better to do that, so that new generations can enjoy the film's magic, music and James Baskett's Oscar-winning performance, than burying it and pretending it never happened. Same with Splash Mountain. The Oriental Land Company, BTW, has no intention of removing the Splash ride from Tokyo Disneyland. They apparently think we're being very silly about the whole thing. I agree. And I think it's hilarious that Iger can't do squat about Splash remaining in the best Disney park in the world. Yeah! Pound sand, Iger!

As for African-Americans writing original stories that can be adapted to Disney rides and shows, naturally I'm all for it. But I have the same standard for that as I do for all creative things: the material has to be good. Like Walt, I "take my hat off to talent". That's all that matters to me.
 

Bocabear

Well-Known Member
Rather than even changing the attraction, they could add a museum/display area explaining the oral history of these African American stories and how they came to be...
Their adaptation to book form saved these African American folk tales from disappearing completely...
Perhaps an exhibit celebrating the origin of the stories would be better than erasing them and their history from existence
Maybe Song Of The South was not the best way to represent them, but for it's time, I believe it tried...
Time has passed, we are more evolved now on the issues...
Make the stories' origins a part of the attraction...Use this as a teaching moment, not erase and replace with something else.
 

FantasiaMickey2000

Active Member
Rather than even changing the attraction, they could add a museum/display area explaining the oral history of these African American stories and how they came to be...
Their adaptation to book form saved these African American folk tales from disappearing completely...
Perhaps an exhibit celebrating the origin of the stories would be better than erasing them and their history from existence
Maybe Song Of The South was not the best way to represent them, but for it's time, I believe it tried...
Time has passed, we are more evolved now on the issues...
Make the stories' origins a part of the attraction...Use this as a teaching moment, not erase and replace with something else.
It’s a great idea but Disney of today is not a company of courage. They are going to take the easy way out to appease activist political groups every time. Shame that James Baskett was the first African American to win an Oscar and Disney will make sure that performance never sees the light of day or is discussed ever again.
 

KCheatle

Well-Known Member
I think there are extremists on both sides - people who will negatively categorize anyone who wants to make change as "woke" and people who believe all people who are not on the streets actively protesting are terrible humans. I think most people fall in the middle; recognizing that racism is still pretty prevalent, and things need to get better.

That being said, I think Disney jumped too quickly into committing to this SM makeover and did it solely to stay relevant in the media. I think it was easy for them to pat themselves on the back in admitting Song of the South Disney-fied a very serious cultural problem, and then promising to make up for that by substituting the ride theme with like literally their only black protagonist (Soul didn't come out until Christmas).

What I hear is: Hi! Disney here. We have known SOTS was problematic for a while now, but this ride was like super popular and it would cost a lot of money to do an overlay, so we did not do anything to change it. But now we feel like we need to stay relevant, so we're promising to change it, but only if we can do it with a coupon code (2-for-1 deal), and we're going to restrict the options for overlay to only something involving a black protagonist. Ah! Since we only have one of those, that's what we're going with. Oh, and again, we're only doing this if we can get a good deal $$ on it, and if not, then sorry - it's staying as is.

Also, we are not changing IASW even though each region is over-simplyfyingly seperated by skin color. And, we are not changing Peter Pan's Flight even though we portrayed Native Americans very poorly in that movie. And, we are not changing pirates of the carribean, which has no black animatronics, even though a significant amount of pirates were black, having become pirates after their slave ships were taken over.

So, it seems to me Disney isn't REALLY committed to the overall message of change and bettermant, and is more committed to staying relevant in the media, but only if it can do it at a discount.

Ultiamtely, I'm all for changing SM to PATF. The music is awesome and I love hte movie. But, I don't believe for one second that Disney will prioritize the movement for cultural change above their bottomline. They want to appear as if they do so that people believe they are supporting a "good" business. But, never forget, Disney is a for profit business.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I actually met the author so yeah, I'm aware she was white. I speak of the adaptation by Disney via the "director" Ava DuVernay, whose adaptation was garbage. She made changes to the story, not to enhance it for the screen, but to push her political agenda. She thought the characters were too white. She thought the storyline wasn't woke enough. She filled a thoughtful, imaginative, emotionally-driven tale with unnecessary preachy "empowerment" tripe. Thus ruining it. I have no patience with that kind of crap. I CAN see the issues with the original film "Song of the South". But I agree with Whoopee Goldberg that the film should be shown. There is much that is very good in it. A little judicial editing would, IMO, solve most of the issues some have with it. I think it's better to do that, so that new generations can enjoy the film's magic, music and James Baskett's Oscar-winning performance, than burying it and pretending it never happened. Same with Splash Mountain. The Oriental Land Company, BTW, has no intention of removing the Splash ride from Tokyo Disneyland. They apparently think we're being very silly about the whole thing. I agree. And I think it's hilarious that Iger can't do squat about Splash remaining in the best Disney park in the world. Yeah! Pound sand, Iger!

As for African-Americans writing original stories that can be adapted to Disney rides and shows, naturally I'm all for it. But I have the same standard for that as I do for all creative things: the material has to be good. Like Walt, I "take my hat off to talent". That's all that matters to me.

Agree with most of this. But PatF is more relevant and relatable in 2021. It is also proactively inclusive which is something P&R has been far too slow at. It is an elegant solution to several problems in the park. But being more race inclusive is the most important. IMO.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I’ve said it before but I feel it’s worth saying again, black tribes people are wrong and shouldn’t be used for entertainment but a black bad voodoo man is a piece of great cultural representation?

Disney has always depicted protagonists vs antagonists. Not sure race has anything to do with that basic storeyline that is as old as history itself. Including Tiana and the PatF franchise would likely include more than just the overlay of Splash. IMO.
 
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EagleScout610

Premium Member
I think there are extremists on both sides - people who will negatively categorize anyone who wants to make change as "woke" and people who believe all people who are not on the streets actively protesting are terrible humans. I think most people fall in the middle; recognizing that racism is still pretty prevalent, and things need to get better.

That being said, I think Disney jumped too quickly into committing to this SM makeover and did it solely to stay relevant in the media. I think it was easy for them to pat themselves on the back in admitting Song of the South Disney-fied a very serious cultural problem, and then promising to make up for that by substituting the ride theme with like literally their only black protagonist (Soul didn't come out until Christmas).

What I hear is: Hi! Disney here. We have known SOTS was problematic for a while now, but this ride was like super popular and it would cost a lot of money to do an overlay, so we did not do anything to change it. But now we feel like we need to stay relevant, so we're promising to change it, but only if we can do it with a coupon code (2-for-1 deal), and we're going to restrict the options for overlay to only something involving a black protagonist. Ah! Since we only have one of those, that's what we're going with. Oh, and again, we're only doing this if we can get a good deal $$ on it, and if not, then sorry - it's staying as is.

Also, we are not changing IASW even though each region is over-simplyfyingly seperated by skin color. And, we are not changing Peter Pan's Flight even though we portrayed Native Americans very poorly in that movie. And, we are not changing pirates of the carribean, which has no black animatronics, even though a significant amount of pirates were black, having become pirates after their slave ships were taken over.

So, it seems to me Disney isn't REALLY committed to the overall message of change and bettermant, and is more committed to staying relevant in the media, but only if it can do it at a discount.

Ultiamtely, I'm all for changing SM to PATF. The music is awesome and I love hte movie. But, I don't believe for one second that Disney will prioritize the movement for cultural change above their bottomline. They want to appear as if they do so that people believe they are supporting a "good" business. But, never forget, Disney is a for profit business.
I said this over in the Cali thread but I figured it works here, Disney has essentially dug themselves into a hole with Song Of the South. Years and years of pretending it's some hideous monster that can never see the light of day has prevented them from releasing it without facing "DiSney REleaSeS ExTREmleY Racist MovIe" backlash. They really had no choice but to say they're getting rid of the material people had problems with and bring in something people wouldn't be as upset with.
 

Parker in NYC

Well-Known Member
I think there are extremists on both sides - people who will negatively categorize anyone who wants to make change as "woke" and people who believe all people who are not on the streets actively protesting are terrible humans. I think most people fall in the middle; recognizing that racism is still pretty prevalent, and things need to get better.

That being said, I think Disney jumped too quickly into committing to this SM makeover and did it solely to stay relevant in the media. I think it was easy for them to pat themselves on the back in admitting Song of the South Disney-fied a very serious cultural problem, and then promising to make up for that by substituting the ride theme with like literally their only black protagonist (Soul didn't come out until Christmas).

What I hear is: Hi! Disney here. We have known SOTS was problematic for a while now, but this ride was like super popular and it would cost a lot of money to do an overlay, so we did not do anything to change it. But now we feel like we need to stay relevant, so we're promising to change it, but only if we can do it with a coupon code (2-for-1 deal), and we're going to restrict the options for overlay to only something involving a black protagonist. Ah! Since we only have one of those, that's what we're going with. Oh, and again, we're only doing this if we can get a good deal $$ on it, and if not, then sorry - it's staying as is.

Also, we are not changing IASW even though each region is over-simplyfyingly seperated by skin color. And, we are not changing Peter Pan's Flight even though we portrayed Native Americans very poorly in that movie. And, we are not changing pirates of the carribean, which has no black animatronics, even though a significant amount of pirates were black, having become pirates after their slave ships were taken over.

So, it seems to me Disney isn't REALLY committed to the overall message of change and bettermant, and is more committed to staying relevant in the media, but only if it can do it at a discount.

Ultiamtely, I'm all for changing SM to PATF. The music is awesome and I love hte movie. But, I don't believe for one second that Disney will prioritize the movement for cultural change above their bottomline. They want to appear as if they do so that people believe they are supporting a "good" business. But, never forget, Disney is a for profit business.
Thank you. This was very well said. My big issue is the "pick and choose" approach as to what is offensive and what isn't. If you're going to put your money where your (mouth is), be consistent across the board. Otherwise, what's the point?
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
I’ve said it before but I feel it’s worth saying again, black tribes people are wrong and shouldn’t be used for entertainment but a black bad voodoo man is a piece of great cultural representation?

I've said this here before, but might as well say it again: of all Disney villains, the most sympathetic is, IMO, Dr. Faucilier. He was a black man at a time when black people had little power of any kind. So he found a source of power - the wrong kind, but it's hard to blame him for taking that path, given the circumstances. I still think he should have been the leading man in PatF, not boring bland Naveen. It could have been a Beauty-and-the-Beast-type relationship: a good woman turning a bad man around. But hindsight is 20/20, as they say.

If there ever is a sequel to PatF (doubtful) it'd be great to revisit the Doctor in a scenario where, say, he's given a chance to escape "the other side" by redeeming himself. Kind of like Iago became a good guy in the Aladdin sequels. I think it could work, and I would definitely watch it.
 

Rescue Ranger

Well-Known Member
I hope when I'm there in October Splash is still open so I have the opportunity to ride and experience one of my favorite attractions one last time...

Would be nice if the characters could live on in some form.
 

KaliSplash

Well-Known Member
I am certainly glad to see we are staying on topic here and discussing the attraction only, NOT the motivation for the change--NOT! Come on, people.
 

FulcrumSolo

Active Member
I hope when I'm there in October Splash is still open so I have the opportunity to ride and experience one of my favorite attractions one last time...

Would be nice if the characters could live on in some form.
If you’re going to WDW, I don’t think it’s closing there anytime soon. Not in the next few years at least.

Disneyland will probably start saying goodbye after summer comes and goes.

Also, the Br’ers will always live on in pirated copies of SotS and the cameos they had in House of Mouse.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
- Disney creates Splash Mountain. Uncle Remus stereotype is dropped. However, they fail to acknowledge the true nature of the stories, and refuse to acknowledge it outside of the ride.
I don’t understand how the bolded would have been feasible to begin with. It’s a ride in a theme park, not a museum exhibit that can be contextualised with educational videos and wall texts. Moreover, it would have been disingenuous for Disney to claim that the ride was in any way inspired by the original stories, because it wasn’t. The immediate source of the current theme is Song of the South, and that connection can never really be disguised or reframed.
 
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TeriofTerror

Well-Known Member
It’s a great idea but Disney of today is not a company of courage. They are going to take the easy way out to appease activist political groups every time. Shame that James Baskett was the first African American to win an Oscar and Disney will make sure that performance never sees the light of day or is discussed ever again. Your
Um, your statement regarding James Baskett is patently false.
 

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