Tiana's Bayou Adventure: Disneyland Watch & Discussion

[_caleb]

ToT may be an exception only because of the ride’s popularity that really stemmed from the DHS original. Fans don’t care about what happens over at DCA, for the most part. It’s Disneyland that is deemed sacred and untouchable.

I think we must move in very different circles. My friends and family who are all DL AP holders (I moved away some time ago) and frequent the parks are nostalgic about old attractions, but they love changes/overlays, etc. When something doesn't work, they don't generally want it to be changed back to the way it was, but rather changed to something new/better. We grew up at DL and my family has been going there since the beginning.

And I'll admit to having spent a significant period of time on mice chat before moving to this site, so maybe that colored my perspective. Or, maybe I'm just out of touch with the fandom.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Which brings us back to Splash Mountain. Even if you don't think the ride springs from racist roots and the subject matter needs to be changed: you still have to admit that the ride is falling apart and can't continue in the flawed state it is currently in. The ride needs to be gutted and redesigned. Disney is going to justify that cost by swapping out the theme and creating a new attraction which will cover the expense through increased ticket sales and merchandise. But leaving the broken Splash Mountain in place for another decade is not an option.

Shortly after the announcement you had people with Disney publicly disclosing that a condition assessment of the Splash Mountain facility had not yet been performed. That assessment is import when dealing with a facility like Splash Mountain because of its age and use. Knowing that information is key to knowing the minimum required scope of work and associated costs. Do you actually have to gut the facility or are you able to make specific repairs that take longer than the yearly closures? The more you alter what exists the more modifications you have to make to areas outside of those you need to repair. They committed to an experience they do not really know and keeping a facility they might be stuck with because gutting to the level really needed might not make financial sense, even with something new to advertise stuck onto it.

 

[el_super]

Shortly after the announcement you had people with Disney publicly disclosing that a condition assessment of the Splash Mountain facility had not yet been performed. That assessment is import when dealing with a facility like Splash Mountain because of its age and use. Knowing that information is key to knowing the minimum required scope of work and associated costs. Do you actually have to gut the facility or are you able to make specific repairs that take longer than the yearly closures? The more you alter what exists the more modifications you have to make to areas outside of those you need to repair. They committed to an experience they do not really know and keeping a facility they might be stuck with because gutting to the level really needed might not make financial sense, even with something new to advertise stuck onto it.

I know it's not really popular around here as an opinion, but I do think they sincerely want to make a change due to the political climate and proactively avoid any controversy that would result in them quickly renaming it "Critter Country Log Flume Attraction." By trying to stay ahead of the outrage in this case, they have some time to change it on their terms.

That said, it's an interesting idea to think that they are going into this without knowing what the overall condition of the building is. They've had some pretty spectacular refurbishments over there lately, the last one being a three months closure in 2018 to replace the final drop. But despite all the months-long closures, people kept reporting that the figures and sets were in horrible condition and not being regularly repaired. A simple backlog of maintenance wouldn't explain the work already being poured into the attraction, so it seems likely a serious safety concern, osha violation or pending litigation is causing some incurable situation within the attraction that still needs to be addressed.

Maybe it really is just as simple as, they need to pour a year or more worth of work into keeping it from falling apart like the Matterhorn, and they don't want to be burdened with advertising the return of "Splash Mountain" in the current climate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I know it's not really popular around here as an opinion, but I do think they sincerely want to make a change due to the political climate and proactively avoid any controversy that would result in them quickly renaming it "Critter Country Log Flume Attraction." By trying to stay ahead of the outrage in this case, they have some time to change it on their terms.

That said, it's an interesting idea to think that they are going into this without knowing what the overall condition of the building is. They've had some pretty spectacular refurbishments over there lately, the last one being a three months closure in 2018 to replace the final drop. But despite all the months-long closures, people kept reporting that the figures and sets were in horrible condition and not being regularly repaired. A simple backlog of maintenance wouldn't explain the work already being poured into the attraction, so it seems likely a serious safety concern, osha violation or pending litigation is causing some incurable situation within the attraction that still needs to be addressed.

Maybe it really is just as simple as, they need to pour a year or more worth of work into keeping it from falling apart like the Matterhorn, and they don't want to be burdened with advertising the return of "Splash Mountain" in the current climate.

The cultural issue is part of why it is evidence for Disney not always doing the cold business calculation. The more you get into the motivation being the current cultural climate then the less justification there is for spending the money to save the facility. Especially with the drop off in work, Disney easily could have put together a team to do a quick assessment and determine if the facility is worth saving.

Water destroys stuff. The work being put into Splash Mountain is more likely largely a result of that basic fact and it is not going to change. Splash Mountain is unique in the extent to which its show scenes are flooded. Outside of select moments, other flooded attractions like Pirates of the Caribbean and "it's a small world" at Magic Kingdom largely just obscure the track with the vast majority of the show sets and figures elevated on a dry platform above the water. The rooms are also physically larger. Splash Mountain has water everywhere with figures and sets in the water.

Some sort of serious concern would not have the attraction reopening as Disney would be carrying far too much liability.

 

[ParaRaven]

That said, it's an interesting idea to think that they are going into this without knowing what the overall condition of the building is. They've had some pretty spectacular refurbishments over there lately, the last one being a three months closure in 2018 to replace the final drop. But despite all the months-long closures, people kept reporting that the figures and sets were in horrible condition and not being regularly repaired. A simple backlog of maintenance wouldn't explain the work already being poured into the attraction, so it seems likely a serious safety concern, osha violation or pending litigation is causing some incurable situation within the attraction that still needs to be addressed.

Maybe it really is just as simple as, they need to pour a year or more worth of work into keeping it from falling apart like the Matterhorn, and they don't want to be burdened with advertising the return of "Splash Mountain" in the current climate.

My guess is that you're probably not far off from the truth. I forget exactly when, but around 2013-2014 Splash, Space, Soarin, and Alice were all closed temporarily due to OSHA violations regarding handrails and fall hazards. This was around the same time the pop-up handrails on Indy and California Screamin were permanently placed in the 'up' position (bad show in my opinion, but I digress).

The Splash Mountain show building in Disneyland is unique to the Florida and Tokyo versions, in that it is one large multi-level set, not unlike Indy's big room. There are now some very visible handrails that have been added, but I imagine there are still parts of the attraction less accessible due to the new OSHA rules. That being said, Japan has notoriously strict safety requirements for amusement rides, and OLC seems to have to problem with maintaining show quality throughout their property, so this excuse can only go so far.

 

[Brer Panther]

So, what's gonna happen when the new Princess and the Frog ride starts falling apart? Will they have to retheme it again?

Then again, screens and static figures are likely less likely to get damaged than animatronics...

 

[SuddenStorm]

So, what's gonna happen when the new Princess and the Frog ride starts falling apart? Will they have to retheme it again?

Then again, screens and static figures are likely less likely to get damaged than animatronics...

Splash Mountain's decrepit state is due solely to lack of funding for the ride. Pirates is a water ride that's 22 years older, but because it gets thorough refurbishments every few years the ride definitely doesn't look 53 years old.

I wonder if the higher speed you move through the show building took pressure off Disneyland Maintenance to keep the animatronics in tip top shape- since so many riders probably don't even notice.

 

[lazyboy97o]

So, what's gonna happen when the new Princess and the Frog ride starts falling apart? Will they have to retheme it again?

Then again, screens and static figures are likely less likely to get damaged than animatronics...

Any attraction with water is going to be a maintenance challenge. Roofs don’t move but they still rot.

Splash Mountain's decrepit state is due solely to lack of funding for the ride. Pirates is a water ride that's 22 years older, but because it gets thorough refurbishments every few years the ride definitely doesn't look 53 years old.

I wonder if the higher speed you move through the show building took pressure off Disneyland Maintenance to keep the animatronics in tip top shape- since so many riders probably don't even notice.

Pirates of the Caribbean is in bigger spaces and most of the show sets are up above the water.

 

[LastoneOn]

Seems to me that if Disney is determined to retheme Splash Mountain, there are a wide variety of options for how they might do it. Everything from literally putting new skins on the existing AAs, some new set dressings, and recording new audio to a complete overhaul, including rerouting the flume, changing the rock work, new ride vehicles, etc. And literally anything in between these extremes.

The challenge would be all the bigger-budget items that are necessary but not as noticeable. Structural changes, new AA mechanics, safety equipment, and the like can be super expensive, but not make an appreciable difference to guests.

So I imagine Disney is considering a variety of options. I'm sure they want to keep as much of what people love about the ride while changing whatever it is they think really needs to change.

I think Disneylanders tend to be more open to change (when it's done well) than WDWers, and I think Disneyland's New Orleans Square theming opens up some good possibilities for a positive change. If they do this right, WDW fans will change from "at least we still have our copy of the original!" (Tower of Terror) to "why does DL always get the best upgrades and we get left out?" (Indy, Pirates, IaSM, Space Mountain, etc).

Yes I think it certainly can be done. I'm not an aficionado of the Frog movie but certainly don't have a problem with the log ride, the levels aspect of the setup. Doesn't matter. The layout is multi level, the log a conveyance between levels. No big deal. They could create a very cool swamp environment that could work well during the day and even better at night. I think best course would be to not be so literal, or linear I guess, and just create a more detached unique experience through the environs of the move. That approach can be just as much "ride the movies" as the more literal way. Frozen in Norway doesn't do much for me because I think they've attached themselves to the literal "ride the movie scene by scene" too much. Mermaid at MK the same.

 

[LastoneOn]

ToT may be an exception only because of the ride’s popularity that really stemmed from the DHS original. Fans don’t care about what happens over at DCA, for the most part. It’s Disneyland that is deemed sacred and untouchable.

DHS is great, especially the environs, the outside queue. Actually a quiet relaxing place to hang out awhile in line. I do prefer the two level boiler room on DCA though. Just seems more dynamic and fitting.

 

[LastoneOn]

So, what's gonna happen when the new Princess and the Frog ride starts falling apart? Will they have to retheme it again?

Then again, screens and static figures are likely less likely to get damaged than animatronics...

You don't honestly think the re-theme is because of it "falling apart" now do you? No, didn't think so.

 

[SplashGhost]

Over the last 5 years, it literally changed week to week on what was and wasn't working inside Splash Mountain. Once they finally got something fixed, something else would break, and that would take weeks or months to fix, and then the other thing that was fixed would be broken again. I don't think Disney is properly equipped to maintain AA and practical set heavy attractions anymore. Which is all the more reason that Frog Mountain will likely be 2 decent AAs and a bunch of screens.

 

[LastoneOn]

I think a lot had to do with fall protection not really being installed in the attraction so it is harder for them to reach certain things to fix in a timely matter. I'm sure they'll be looking into that as well during the overhaul.

The amount of risks I took when I was younger is kind of frightening to think about. No doubt maintenance access is much more designed into structures than it used to be.

 

[planodisney]

I know it's not really popular around here as an opinion, but I do think they sincerely want to make a change due to the political climate and proactively avoid any controversy that would result in them quickly renaming it "Critter Country Log Flume Attraction." By trying to stay ahead of the outrage in this case, they have some time to change it on their terms.

That said, it's an interesting idea to think that they are going into this without knowing what the overall condition of the building is. They've had some pretty spectacular refurbishments over there lately, the last one being a three months closure in 2018 to replace the final drop. But despite all the months-long closures, people kept reporting that the figures and sets were in horrible condition and not being regularly repaired. A simple backlog of maintenance wouldn't explain the work already being poured into the attraction, so it seems likely a serious safety concern, osha violation or pending litigation is causing some incurable situation within the attraction that still needs to be addressed.

Maybe it really is just as simple as, they need to pour a year or more worth of work into keeping it from falling apart like the Matterhorn, and they don't want to be burdened with advertising the return of "Splash Mountain" in the current climate.

You can forget “stay ahead of the outrage.”
For many people virtue signaling and expressing outrage is at the core of their warped self-esteem. They will just direct it somewhere else because they just “NEED” to express outrage.
Makes them feel good.
What Disney needs to stop doing is fearing this group and making decisions based on people who live to express social media “outrage.”

 

[mickEblu]

Over the last 5 years, it literally changed week to week on what was and wasn't working inside Splash Mountain. Once they finally got something fixed, something else would break, and that would take weeks or months to fix, and then the other thing that was fixed would be broken again. I don't think Disney is properly equipped to maintain AA and practical set heavy attractions anymore. Which is all the more reason that Frog Mountain will likely be 2 decent AAs and a bunch of screens.

And then everyone will miss all the “broken AAs “ that you can hardly even notice because you re going by so fast. I’ve said it before, I feel that people massively exaggerate about Splash Mountains poor state. It was rare that any of the main AAs weren’t working for me except maybe Brer Rabbit on the train car thing. As far as the darker lighting I don’t mind it. I’m not even sure it’s not supposed to be that dark and that people aren’t just comparing it to Florida’s version which is supposed to look like a bright day outdoors.

Or I could be wrong and was so distracted by the music, plethora of AAs, wonderful sets, pace of the ride and drops that I didn’t notice. I like to think I have an eye for detail though.

 

[el_super]

So, what's gonna happen when the new Princess and the Frog ride starts falling apart? Will they have to retheme it again?

Then again, screens and static figures are likely less likely to get damaged than animatronics...

Well we will know when they open the new ride. If there are no serious structural concerns with the building, and most of the maintenance issues are related to the sets and superficial gunite, they could a longer expected life for the building. If the building is going to last another 15-25 years, they can spend more money on a new show. If they expect the building will only last another 10 years before major investment is needed, they may end up spending less money on the new show, in order to justify a complete tear down in the future.

 

[EagleScout610]

Tower of Terror and CA Screamin' weren't rethemed to boost each attraction's popularity long term- they were both rethemed because Marvel and Pixar Merchandise sell.

I remember reading Splash was on the block so it could be more "Instagrammable" or some**** like that

 

[Brer Panther]

Didn't somebody say that Disney was doing this because they were afraid of a Disney Plus boycott or something like that?

 

[_caleb]

You can forget “stay ahead of the outrage.”
For many people virtue signaling and expressing outrage is at the core of their warped self-esteem. They will just direct it somewhere else because they just “NEED” to express outrage.
Makes them feel good.
What Disney needs to stop doing is fearing this group and making decisions based on people who live to express social media “outrage.”

In your opinion, is there a place for Disney responding to public opinion? Like, even if you dismiss certain folks as "virtual signaling," is there any scenario in which you think it would be ok for Disney to make changes due to guest feedback?

For example, Disney parks have really changed a lot in order to better accommodate people with disabilities. They've spent a lot of time and money getting rid of curbs and steps, widening aisles and walkways, and making sure rides and attractions are accessible. Some of these changes came because Disney was required by law to make them (ADA restrooms, countertops, and water fountains, for example), but some of the changes weren't forced on Disney- they just heard from customers and responded. In your opinion, was that warranted? And if not, would it have been virtue signaling for me to have asked Disney to make some of these changes (or to applaud them for making them)?

 

[SplashGhost]

And then everyone will miss all the “broken AAs “ that you can hardly even notice because you re going by so fast. I’ve said it before, I feel that people massively exaggerate about Splash Mountains poor state. It was rare that any of the main AAs weren’t working for me except maybe Brer Rabbit on the train car thing. As far as the darker lighting I don’t mind it. I’m not even sure it’s not supposed to be that dark and that people aren’t just comparing it to Florida’s version which is supposed to look like a bright day outdoors.

Or I could be wrong and was so distracted by the music, plethora of AAs, wonderful sets, pace of the ride and drops that I didn’t notice. I like to think I have an eye for detail though.

There is a lot of stuff that breaks and AAs go missing from time to time. However, the good thing is that Splash Mountain has so much stuff going on throughout the ride, that it isn't a big deal when an AA here or there is broken or missing. Even if half the AAs were broken, the ride would offer far more AAs and practical effects than almost any other attraction in the world.

On the newer Disney attractions that hardly have any AAs, one AA not working could ruin the entire experience. A good example is Mission: Breakout. If that one AA broke, it would be missing one of the main reasons to ride the attraction.