Spirited News, Observations & Thoughts IV

[rioriz]

Unless you're staying on concierge level in a WDW deluxe, there is no comparison.

I will stay at Potifino next stay but I've stayed from GF, Pop, FWL, and BW and have had nary a complaint. Actually Fort Wilderness has been one of my best stays ever. Sorry I love visiting Uni but not totally drinking the kool aid just cause its cool now. So until I stay at Port, the comparison can't be made

 

[TalkingHead]

Seems worth mentioning that according to the Sentinel website, SeaWorld and BGT have priced weekday admission tickets at $50 from Aug 1-Dec 20.

Article says SeaWorld raised their ticket prices in early June.

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/trav...ay-tickets-50-dollars-20130731,0,6383371.post

 

[RSoxNo1]

The original pro forma showed a huge upside and way lower cost than what's been incurred in reality. Based on the assumptions, the cost benefit analysis was tremendously positive. The failure was in the execution of bringing those assumptions to reality.

Overages on a large scale Disney project...
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[RSoxNo1]

I'll never know the inner workings behind NGE or why they felt they should continually pour their funds into a blackhole, but I can only hope that NGE launches soon because I'm tired of discussing it. The damage has been done. There is absolutely nothing that is going to stop TDC from making this happen now. It may not work how they intended & be buggier than a stray dog at a flea cirucs, but they will use it.

I'd like to pose this question in light of a Walt-o-vision POV, what do they do going forward? That's what I'm most interested in. All this money is already spent, nothing we can do about it. What happens next? Do the suits sit back & watch NGE struggle & only think in the now or do they push forward & hopefully stride towards putting their resources into attractions again?

Spirit, I know you've said over & over that things would get worse before they get better, but when will be able to set sail on the winds of "Spirited" change? Even the DHS/DAK rumors don't seem to be enough to turn it around unless they really & truly have kept this under a tight lid & will wow us soon. If NGE ends up being dialed back & essentially a failure from what they intended it to be, will they pony up & begin constructing things? Or will they sink more & more money into it until it works correctly 5 years from now?

NGE is the latest trend in trying to get more money out of the same # of guests. It is based on the incorrect belief that the theme park market in Central Florida is mature. Universal Studios has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that this is incorrect.

 

[jensenrick]

I believe a Uni bubble exist as well, just that most of us have not experienced it. For the first time ever I stayed at Universal last fall instead of at WDW and it was an amazing experience. I have been a Universal passholder for almost 10 years now but never treated the resort the way I did when we stayed on site for two nights. Complete and total escapism something I haven't felt at WDW for years, but still feel when at DL. Sure the resort is smaller, but that's kind of the charm of it you don't have to bus anywhere you can walk or take a boat there's plenty of shopping, nightlife, miniature golf everything Disney World has put in a nice neat little package.

I totally agree with all that- I feel the Universal bubble as well. It starts the minute I arrive at my Universal resort- suddenly I'm more laid back and relaxed. I never have to worry about getting my car, or where to park, or a big pet peeve of mine- whether I want to carry a bag or not- no bag check lines! Just back and forth between high excitement and childish delight, fine dining or the easiest of casual meals, with total pampering in between.
All my favorite moments with family and friends in the last few years (only counting Orlando) have been at Universal.
Sorry to say, because I used to be one of the most pixie dust addicted, but I haven't felt a "bubble" at Disney in years. Really hoping my first visit to Disneyland this year gives a bit of Disney "bubble" like I used to remember.

 

[alphac2005]

No Kool Aid, here. We first stayed at Portofino when it opened and it continues to be excellent. To get a resort room at a third of the price of GF with our Uni AP, it's rather hard to argue about what's a better deal and if the rooms were the same price, I'd still take Portofino.

Contrary to our last WDW resort stay in 2011 when we had an issue of something that had gone missing (long story) and the response was basically tough ----. After that, not a dime will ever go to their resorts. An exec. tried to clean up the mess after we returned home, but it was too little, too late.

It all comes down to preference, but don't make it seem like people have jumped in the Uni train because it is quote unquote cool, rather that they are providing a superior product today.

 

[luv]

Ten years ago I would never have believed that there would come a day when Universal's plans would be the most exciting thing in Orlando. But, uh, here we are.

I would have believed it. I thought this would happen ten years ago. Been saying it for ten years. If you knew my family, you could ask them. I've watched it keep happening.

And wait another ten or fifteen years, when all the kids who liked Uni better start taking their kids to Orlando. I hope I'm around to see it!

 

[RSoxNo1]

haha... everyone is all about "rides"... and anything they do NextGen, new busses, new bus stops, DVC resorts, pave a parking lot, etc. is considered wasting money until we get a new "ride"

I guarantee you the project plan (which we will never see) lists a bigger return on investment in the long run than we will ever know or see

This is the problem. The attractions have always driven attendance at the parks. Yes, discounts may help. Yes, people like eating and staying at the resorts. But at it's core, attractions have always driven attendance at the parks. Everything else should be considered as infrastructure and should merely be considered the cost of doing business.

The reason why Universal is seeing sizable jumps in attendance is because they're building new rides at an aggressive pace. Had Disney kept the infrastructure enhancements at the status quo, and spent the $1-3 billion on new attractions they would be celebrating higher attendance numbers today.

 

[RSoxNo1]

But the question is...
Is Disney getting wait times under control...or are people just not going?

Crowds are being distributed a bit better at the Magic Kingdom than they were 6-8 years ago, in my opinion. Animal Kingdom crowds are also fairly well spread out. Epcot and DHS crowds are not spread out well at all and the only thing that will change that is new attractions.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I would say people are not going. FP+ is too new and not fully implemented to make a difference. ALthough those FP+ promoters will tell you differently.

Bring me these FP+ promoters you speak of.

 

[luv]

I totally agree with all that- I feel the Universal bubble as well. It starts the minute I arrive at my Universal resort- suddenly I'm more laid back and relaxed. I never have to worry about getting my car, or where to park, or a big pet peeve of mine- whether I want to carry a bag or not- no bag check lines! Just back and forth between high excitement and childish delight, fine dining or the easiest of casual meals, with total pampering in between.
All my favorite moments with family and friends in the last few years (only counting Orlando) have been at Universal.
Sorry to say, because I used to be one of the most pixie dust addicted, but I haven't felt a "bubble" at Disney in years. Really hoping my first visit to Disneyland this year gives a bit of Disney "bubble" like I used to remember.

Uni vacations are WAY more relaxing than Disney, that's for sure.

...but they do bag checks.

 

[Taylor]

@WDW1974 if they are telling you that you can't post the news, does that mean that an announcement could be imminent?

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

I sorta resent your comment. First, I am not hyping anything. I am trying to pass along information and news that is interesting to me and many who read what I write. I am under no obligation to put it out on your timetable or anyone else's but mine. I used to always hear the same crap leveled at Al Lutz when he'd go more than 2-3 weeks without a column.

I also never proclaimed I had earth shattering information. I may well, but if I do you can bet this isn,t the place for it.

You go by my pace and my ability to post when I can (I do have a faux one percenter's life when not here). If that doesn't suit you than by all means go elsewhere and rest well in the knowledge that whatever I do lute out here will eventually get borrowed all over the Disney fan community.

So, the earth-shattering information you may, or may not have, isn't appropriate for this forum . . . maybe because info here is 'free'? I guess I can see that if you have a site somewhere on the internet where you write articles and get some income from publishing this info.

 

[Pixiedustmaker]

This is somewhat self serving, but I remember back when I was doing the podcast, we discussed Disney's inability to successfully build something technologically advanced. NGE is seemingly no different, other than it's more costly then their other recent failures.

The $1 billion dollar price tag for Next Gen is for implementation at all Disney resorts worldwide. NextGen infrastructure saves money in many instances, and isn't $1 billion for WDW, more like $175-$200 million . . . if that, I can see there being an inflated budget and execs claiming they made the rollout even more successful. The word is that NextGen is making WDW money, and will probably pay for itself in a reasonable time frame.

 

[jensenrick]

There's nothing like stiff competition and loss of market share (revenue) to provide a sense of urgency.

Yes, one would think, wouldn't one? So . . . where is it? Where is the "sense of urgency" from the TDO side? Because the 3 years it's taken them to build a Snow White mini-coaster doesn't seem very urgent to me. The last urgent thing TDO did was put up netting under the Tree of Life.
In fact, it does seem that with TDO's new NGE money-sucking machine, they really don't care about adding to the parks, urgently or otherwise. As far as maintaining them to the level they were and should be maintained, I see no "urgency" there either.

No matter what other underlying issues are at play, Disney will not want to lose money to Universal and deal with the media trumpeting Uni's rise from mediocrity.

Too late. That's the rear view mirror now.

Disney will push back, even if the execs are motivated solely by ego and money.

You really think so? Why?
According to Mugglenet.com, WWoHP opened to mind-blowing crowds in June of 2010, and Universal Orlando Resort has continued plussing since then. If it's true that "nothing like stiff competition and loss of market share (revenue) to provide a sense of urgency," well then . . . why is there no urgency from TDO?
I hear they maybe, kinda, sorta, are thinking of maybe, kinda, sorta building something at DHS- if anyone can decide what to build. Oh well, no rush- much more important to get wristbands on people. Now that is urgent!

 

[WDW1974]

Hi Spirit. First of all, I want to state that I was not in any way a fan of yours for several years, but I've developed a healthy respect for your insights and opinions. (Btw, sorry about calling you a "caricature" that time.)

I was going to paraphrase a comment of yours from yesterday, but I thought it best to quote it..." the paradigm for central Florida vacations is changing fundamentally and will continue to do so and Disney, despite some large scale projects coming in the next 4-7 years, has absolutely no clue how to respond and actually compete"

A few comments and a question.

I don't doubt that the manner in which people spend their time in Central Florida is changing to some extent, and I assume this refers mostly to the fact that more people are visiting Universal, and as a consequence, spending less time at WDW. (Noboby, not even the Spirit himself, can be in 2 places at once.) Back in about 2004, attendance at Uni was abysmal, not significantly better than some seasonal parks. WDW had little competition and was becoming stagnant and complacent. Along comes a large infusion of cash for Uni, and some vision, and here we are in 2013 with 2 very solid parks at Universal, with more good stuff coming down the pipe. Using our family as an example, we never had any reason to venture down the I-4 10 years ago, but now could spend a day or two there...still no more than that for us though. We'll still do a week at WDW's parks.

The competition from Universal recently has been the necessary catalyst to get WDW to take notice, and to actually start to focus again on maintenance, new attractions, expansion, etc. That's great for those of us who are fans of WDW. If WDW gets some of the large scale projects in the next 4-7 years that you refer to, I think that they will compete, whether anyone in the company is a visionary or not. Money poured in to DCA has made that a park worth visiting and boosted attendance. Despite Universal's improvements, I find it impossible to believe that additons such as Pandora at AK, and a Star Wars expansions and/or Pixar expansion will not further boost attendance at those parks, and keep people at each park longer. In fact, I imagine that an increased Star Wars presence could do what WWoHP did for Universal. Noboby will ever convince me that HP has a larger and more loyal following than SW. So, I expect these parks to compete just fine after an infusion of cash.

My question for you Spirit, is do you not think that even without a visionary like Walt at the helm, WDW can do just fine by responding to Uni with the above mentioned expansions at DAK, DHS and improvements to Epcot, hopefully starting with Imagination next year?

First, I'm sorry that you haven't joined the swelling (always ever swelling) ranks of my fans. But I am not in this for fans or even to make friends, with in and out of the business, even though I have.

As to your comments and questions, I think Disney absolutely could compete with UNI IF it was actually building new things and opening new things (I'm talking quality, not new fantasyland). But it is sitting back and saying collectively 'what do we do? What do we do? What do we do?'

I can say that right now, knowing what I do, that the above is not going to be enough to compete with UNI down the road. Not by a long shot. Even Iger knows this, but he'll be long gone by the time Disney truly has to stand up to the challenge.

 

[jensenrick]

Uni vacations are WAY more relaxing than Disney, that's for sure.

...but they do bag checks.

The bag checks are on the bridge from the parking garage. If you stay on property, you are already past that point.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Pool and hotel were both amazing. My Disney exec friend put it quite simply ''We have nothing that can compete with that product, just as we can't compete with the new Bonnet Creek resorts or the Ritz.''

I am very late for an appointment, but will discuss more tonight or tomorrow.

I've heard great things about this pool. "Easily better than Stormalong bay"

 

[luv]

The bag checks are on the bridge from the parking garage. If you stay on property, you are already past that point.

They're supposed to do them. Sometimes you luck out and they don't, but they're supposed to do them.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Disney is not interested in spending money unless they have to.

And even then...