Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[GrumpyFan]

But how about local AP holders. You know, the ones who decide which park they are going to Sat. Morning when they wake up. TSMM and Soarin' FP+ will be the attraction equivalent to Cindy's Royal Table and Le Cellier ADRs.

You might be right about this, although they could leave some room for AP holders in the way they do it.
But, if you read the patents, it could be implied that they don't care as much about these ticket holders, they're only concerned with the infrequent or first time guest, because they're the ones that have the most potential for spending the most money.

 

[rael ramone]

Why 1.5 billion went to the Mouse Arrest band:

1. First, you get to take away, not add, to the guests (less hours open, less CMs serving them, fast pass limits).
2. Then, you give some (not all) of it back to your biggest spenders. (Sir, you can get a 25% discount on the Floridian, but if you agree to pay rack rates, there will be an extra fast pass in it for you - good at any spinner).
3. Then on the back end, you are swimming in all this valuable data that your many divisions can harvest, as well as share with sponsors for the various rides, shops, water play areas, making sponsorship a much bigger cash cow.
4. And finally, you have access to the group that every other company that mines data recognizes is off limits, the kiddies...

Why else would would Iger double down on something that detracted from the guest experience when just up the road they are doing the opposite?

I bet he literally has dollar signs for pupils right now...

 

[Disneyhead'71]

It's not twisting - its actually REMOVING spin. Don't hate me because I'm right

From someone in media - I thought you'd be better at understanding how to identify and scrub bias... even the unintended bias.

If you want to compare to NFE and that list. Your free to your conclusion.

Oh, I do recognize bias and spin. $1.5B in Dog Kennels and new roads? Seriously?

Spinnin' faster than a tea cup!

 

[rael ramone]

Referring to Walt as the "Old Dead Guy" is a direct reflection of how he is viewed by today's corporate management who have systematically removed or neglected many of the principles and ideas that the man stood for.
Spirit isn't showing disrespect, he is mocking those who do.

I wonder if the turn 'towards the dark side' had it's roots early in the EARLY Eisner/Wells/Katzenburg days.

If you watch the 'making of' featurette in Little Mermaid, they talked about how they had pictures of Walt & Roy next to each other, and there was always a 'what would Walt & Roy do'. When Katzenburg was asked that he said "I DON'T CARE"!!!

 

[flynnibus]

Oh, I do recognize bias and spin. $1.5B in Dog Kennels and new roads? Seriously?

Spinnin' faster than a tea cup!

Have you already forgotten the new kennels? And the proposed DtD roadway improvements? Oh and the other roadway improvements recently done? These were not pull-things-out-of-my-rear but true examples. The point was to drive home the issue that 'maintenance' and 'additions' on the WDW property extend far beyond simple in-park attractions. If you want a softer one.. Upgraded Disneyquest? New Pleasure Island? etc etc.

Fans love to load their discussions subconsciously to 'in park attractions' and ignore that the rest of the property doesn't run, upkeep, or expand for free either. So when one uses vague terms.. you leave the response open to personal bias.

 

[flynnibus]

In reality my goal when I started this was to say we all don't need to argue about this facet or another because really in the end the majority of us agree on the fundamental answer to the question does this make us happier?

Happier than Biddie Boutique? Happier than a new princess M&G? Happier than a new Dumbo? Happier than a new Pleasure Island?

I would say yeah.. NextGen offers me more than any of those types of things. Would NextGen be better than RSR? IMO - yes. Why? Because NextGen will offer things that improve me all over the property.. and will continue to every trip. The idea of a FastPass never grew 'old' to people.. it's something you benefited from every trip without worry about 'getting stale'. An attraction may be neat for me initially.. but will it hold up over time? That's a gamble they take.

Would NextGen be better than POTC+HM+JC+BTMRR? No - but if they could guarantee classics that would hold up for decades and be seen as global favorites ahead of time.. I think they'd be far more successful than they actually are today

I was trying to unite us but I think we got off course with my editorializing and your nit picking of the question. I think at least in the grand scheme you and I agree, it's the details we are quibbling over. Which I think is pointless.

It's not a nitpick - but rather strengthening the question. Conclusions drawn from sloppy data is just as sloppy. Crap in, Crap out.

I still think the problem for most people is the negatives (cost and tradeoffs) are what is holding them back.. not that they don't like the benefits.

I'm sure the complaints will shift over time..
instead of 'I can't get a FP day of..' it will switch to 'I can't get a FP at the time I want...'
Instead of 'Disney is tracking me...' it will switch to 'Disney makes it too hard to opt-out...'
Instead of 'FP+ takes all the good seating...' it will switch to 'My FP+ seating sucks!! it should be better...'

People always need something to be critical of and moving the line helps them from having to admit error.

 

[rioriz]

But how about local AP holders. You know, the ones who decide which park they are going to Sat. Morning when they wake up. TSMM and Soarin' FP+ will be the attraction equivalent to Cindy's Royal Table and Le Cellier ADRs.

Again we are splitting hairs on what we assume the future of FP will be and most assume there will be available Day FP released just like they do at this time.

So what you are saying in that instance is what my example was. As an AP resident I wake up in my home at 8:30 when ropes drop at DHS book my 10am FP for TSMM. Jump in the shower get in my car park and walk into DHS just in time for my 10am FP.

Again all assumptions on how the future of FP will be w/o paper tickets because as of now as an AP you still will have to rush when ropes drop to get a FP. They could set up something for the AP where you are given a band and registered to you so you can log in before on mymagic+. At this time we are all assuming...

Does this not make sense to you?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Have you already forgotten the new kennels? And the proposed DtD roadway improvements? Oh and the other roadway improvements recently done? These were not pull-things-out-of-my-rear but true examples. The point was to drive home the issue that 'maintenance' and 'additions' on the WDW property extend far beyond simple in-park attractions. If you want a softer one.. Upgraded Disneyquest? New Pleasure Island? etc etc.

Fans love to load their discussions subconsciously to 'in park attractions' and ignore that the rest of the property doesn't run, upkeep, or expand for free either. So when one uses vague terms.. you leave the response open to personal bias.

I am fully aware of the new kennels that Disney turned over to a third party build and operate and the new road that Disney has applied for public funds for. And no I am not limiting my discussion to just in park additions. Yes I would prefer them to fix Pleasure Island or upgrade the roads to alleviate the traffic headache that Disney has caused on SR535 than NextGen or possibly a new fleet of monorail trains.

But you are still spinning it away from the original point. And that is they could have done incredible things with this kind of money, but instead we are getting NextGen.

And I also recognize bias when I see it. And I also recognize agenda.

 

[rioriz]

I am fully aware of the new kennels that Disney turned over to a third party build and operate and the new road that Disney has applied for public funds for. And no I am not limiting my discussion to just in park additions. Yes I would prefer them to fix Pleasure Island or upgrade the roads to alleviate the traffic headache that Disney has caused on SR535 than NextGen or possibly a new fleet of monorail trains.

But you are still spinning it away from the original point. And that is they could have done incredible things with this kind of money, but instead we are getting NextGen.

And I also recognize bias when I see it. And I also recognize agenda.

I posed a question I would like your opinion on earlier if you wouldn't mind.

It regarded if Disney had done "incredible things with this kind of money" and still did Next Gen type stuff on top, what would your overall opinion of Next Gen be.

I ask because the difference I see between your and opinion and one seemed to shared by myself or flynn. I am looking at Next Gen as the "what is" and not "what could have been". My judgments come soley for what the investment is separate from what the money used for it could have been. There is a difference there. I am with you on wanting more atttractions and upkeep but realize that we dont have that yet. That leaves me with looking at what we do have and evaluating it on it's own, leaving my emotional opinion about the lack of attractions out of it.

Thanks in advance

 

[flynnibus]

And I also recognize bias when I see it. And I also recognize agenda.

Oh yes.. the 'they don't agree with me' so they must be working for the enemy defense...

So trite and petty.

 

[RSoxNo1]

This is the quintessential example of a contrived question that doesn't represent reality at all or actually prove anything.

Why not just say 'What if Iger came up to you and said, hey we can spend one billion on NextGen, or I can give that money to you, which would you have chosen?'

The alternatives are not equally plausible, making it completely unrealistic.

The question isn't that far fetched though. The goal of Disney, and more specifically, Imagineering is to present us with things that we didn't know we wanted. Historically, this has been attractions that do things we didn't know were possible. MyMagic+ is one of those things that Disney hopes, "we didn't know we wanted". As of right now though, it seems that many people on here don't want certain components of it. Compare it to something like the Spaceship Earth refurbishment. We all wanted the Spaceship Earth refurbishment, and there were even parts of it that we liked (the enhancements to the show scenes), but it has been regarded by many as a failure because of the dumbed down script and crappy descent.

Yes, components of MyMagic+ may be positive (touch to pay, improved wait time aps, booking same day fastpasses on your phone), but if there are elements that people don't like (Data Mining and scheduling Fastpass in advance) it's going to be regarded as a failure.

 

[flynnibus]

Yes, components of MyMagic+ may be positive (touch to pay, improved wait time aps, booking same day fastpasses on your phone), but if there are elements that people don't like (Data Mining and scheduling Fastpass in advance) it's going to be regarded as a failure.

The same could be said of the original FP... people complain about the various side effects. But FP is still largely desirable by most.

It's not the presence of side effects that sways the conclusion.. its always about 'do the pros outweigh the cons' in the eye of the beholder.

So when you ask 'will this benefit the guest' are you asking about are there positives, or are you asking about the net benefit in the opinion of the responder?

FP most have decided is a net benefit...
SSE some think its a net failure.. most I'd wager see it as 'good, but should have been better'. The latter is still a net positive, but they are disappointed in the company more than the ride itself.

In this thread... the 'net effect' vs 'individual effect' is not being clarified and that's why you get so much yes/no/yes/no/yes/no type of banter. When two people aren't even talking about the same thing to start with.. you're unlikely to reach a common ground.

 

[briandoc]

I get the resentment/disdain that people seem to have for the way Disney is spending $2 billion dollars and not giving them what they want. But people seem to have the sentiment that this is the last $2B Disney is ever going to spend on WDW. Ever. That since maintenance isn't discussed in this expenditure, that it never will be done and the downward spiral will never be stopped. I look at this as an investment in their infrastructure in which they are also convinced will enhance a majority of customers experience in at least some way and will give them an ROI or future profit stream to justify the cost. Personally, I'd like the money spent a different way. But it's not my company. I also want them to be successful and make the kind of money that they can remain an ongoing and growing entity. innovation/expansion/maintenance is undoubtedly part of their vision for the future as well. NextGen is not the last project coming out of TWDC. It's the one they chose now and we're stuck with it. i hope for positive things to come of it. I don't want to see a $2B fail. But I also eagerly await the green-light for the next exciting project.

 

[HMF]

I wonder if the turn 'towards the dark side' had it's roots early in the EARLY Eisner/Wells/Katzenburg days.

If you watch the 'making of' featurette in Little Mermaid, they talked about how they had pictures of Walt & Roy next to each other, and there was always a 'what would Walt & Roy do'. When Katzenburg was asked that he said "I DON'T CARE"!!!

In those days almost every decision made at the company was done under the "What would Walt Do" mantra which even Roy E. Disney said was an insane way to run a business. It was a healthy thing at the time for Animation in particular to discard that line of thinking.

 

[RSoxNo1]

The same could be said of the original FP... people complain about the various side effects. But FP is still largely desirable by most.

It's not the presence of side effects that sways the conclusion.. its always about 'do the pros outweigh the cons' in the eye of the beholder.

So when you ask 'will this benefit the guest' are you asking about are there positives, or are you asking about the net benefit in the opinion of the responder?

FP most have decided is a net benefit...
SSE some think its a net failure.. most I'd wager see it as 'good, but should have been better'. The latter is still a net positive, but they are disappointed in the company more than the ride itself.

In this thread... the 'net effect' vs 'individual effect' is not being clarified and that's why you get so much yes/no/yes/no/yes/no type of banter. When two people aren't even talking about the same thing to start with.. you're unlikely to reach a common ground.

When we first heard about NextGen, my comment was essentially, "I can't imagine Disney spending a billion dollars and us fans not getting something beneficial out of it." Some of these benefits may actually be hidden - perhaps instead of raising ticket prices the use the data mining as the source of added revenue. It would be an advantage over Universal from an earnings standpoint, and perhaps for Universal to keep up they would have to adapt or raise their prices. That type of effect probably wouldn't be felt immediately.

I suspect that NextGen will roll out with components like touch to pay, turnstyles and hotel locks working very well. I also suspect that ride enhancements like those planned at "it's a small world" and those already in play at Test Track will continue to have system issues resulting in us continuing to mock those aspects. I suspect that Princess Fairytale Hall will use the technology exceptionally well because I suspect that before meeting each princess your Magic band will be scanned allowing for no issues with "timing". Having said that, I wouldn't be surprised if issues occur here as well. But assuming they get these and other effects working correctly, this can all be beneficial - yes, some of these changes may be upcharges but I don't see it as particularly intrusive.

I also suspect that the scheduling of Fastpasses is going to be the area that results in the most tweaking. At this point in time, it's pretty well established that not every guest uses the current Fastpass system. This is either by choice or out of ignorance. I would suspect that the same would hold true for guests booking Fastpass+ reservations in advance. I can also see Disney changing their tune as to what will be available for advanced bookings. Maybe they roll out new parades, or nighttime shows and the premium seating is the only thing that's made available in advance. Perhaps for every 2 days you book you get one bookingfor primo parade or nighttime show viewing. Or perhaps you get the option for booking 1 Fastpass+ reservation a day for any of the attractions in the park. I think the last option would address the biggest concern (I want to be guaranteed a ride on TSM or Soarin, but don't want to get up early) while still being somewhat reasonable for day guests. I would think that a limit on pre-booked Fastpasses should also be initiated.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Although I suppose that these previous posts about "which would you prefer" have been an entertaining switch from the thread, but, not only is it a wasted argument, but it doesn't take into consideration an important thing. That would be that the likelihood of that 1.5 billion or 2 billion, if it makes one feel better, ever being assigned to the theme parks is almost a total daydream. Disney Co. is huge. It has more hands reaching out for money then one can even imagine. It is from a completely different budget then the standard theme park budget. Separately allocated and completely out of the control of the heads of the parks. NextGen was, in all probability never intended to enhance anyones experience. It was designed to be a tool for management to determine demand on product, park space, popularity of specific rides and spending habits of every cross section of guests from filthy rich to scratched a few bucks together to bring the kids to WDW or DL or whatever park you care to name.

In order to easily sell this to the public, they then threw in a few perks for using the system that would be a selling point for their guests. The same as a store card will occasionally offer you a discount for signing on to their "I know what you bought" card. In other words, that money would never have seen the light of day in any Disney park, no matter what one wishes. WDW being the largest of Disney's property representing that cross section completely, is the reason why it is being done in WDW and not DLR. It will be in all of them if it works out the way they anticipated. A test track, if you will.

That money would have gone to some other project in the Disney Carousel of Vasts Interests. Until someone comes up with real doable additions that they can budget for and build, you will not see much of anything built here. I believe that they have started to get the hard slap of reality that Universal is inflicting on the future of WDW and that we will see some changes happening, but no more or no less then what would have been spent with or without NextGen.

 

[Disneyhead'71]

I posed a question I would like your opinion on earlier if you wouldn't mind.

It regarded if Disney had done "incredible things with this kind of money" and still did Next Gen type stuff on top, what would your overall opinion of Next Gen be.

I ask because the difference I see between your and opinion and one seemed to shared by myself or flynn. I am looking at Next Gen as the "what is" and not "what could have been". My judgments come soley for what the investment is separate from what the money used for it could have been. There is a difference there. I am with you on wanting more atttractions and upkeep but realize that we dont have that yet. That leaves me with looking at what we do have and evaluating it on it's own, leaving my emotional opinion about the lack of attractions out of it.

Thanks in advance

There are HUGE aspects of this program that I am not comfortable with and I don't like!

The fact that this creepy program is monumentally expensive only compounds my disgruntled disappointment that they haven't added a major attraction to the MK in my daughter's lifetime (and she is preparing to go to college). They are dragging a 40 year old used parade down Main Street at night, an 11 year old parade during the day. The fireworks show is a decade old. All the minor additions have been aimed at toddlers. They haven't added a major attraction anywhere across the resort in 6 years. Pleasure Island has been ply boarded up for 5 years. The only recent additions to DHS and Epcot were do-overs. And they spend $1.5+Billion on NextGEN? Really?

 

[Clever Name]

So to my question ... does this enhance your experience?

One of the major improvements with NextGen will be speedier entrance into the various parks. All of us have stood in long lines to enter the parks as people fumble with their admission media and also have to stop to have their finger scanned. The Magic Band will eliminate the admission media delays but for now, you still have to submit to the biometric finger scan.

In the future (not yet sure when) the finger scans will be eliminated and the biometric scan will be facial recognition. You will not have to stop to insert your admission media into a reader and you will not have to stop to have your finger scanned. With the Magic Band you'll just walk by the Mickey reader and wave your hand. Disney has used facial recognition for many years now. I'm not entirely sure why they haven't switched over to facial recognition. It could be that since some people have been so upset about the NextGen initiative, that Disney doesn't want to increase the freak out factor among these worrisome folks.


http://www.businessinsider.com/this...lations-about-trapwire-spying-are-true-2012-8

 

[nytimez]

perhaps instead of raising ticket prices the use the data mining as the source of added revenue.

LOL

 

[SirLink]

Anything is possible - But lets play along and say 'Would you prefer we just sell Disneyland Paris, and use the money to fix WDW?'

'Would you prefer I (Iger) give up all my salary and compensation in lieu of funding WDW repairs?'

'Would you prefer if instead of doing DCA v2, that we just fixed WDW?'

The last one is a great example.. they could have gone either way... but what's the point of polling a question like that? Showing preferences? Then there is no point of putting the pretense in there of 'if Iger asked you...' - like Iger gives a @$%$ what you think. Cut to the chase.. ask what you prefer.. that's all that matters and is actually relevant to the poster.

If Disney said we are selling WDW to a consortium of OLC, the Saudi Prince, and an European Telecommunication company lets say Telefonica/Sky/etc. I would jump up and down with Joy...

I would prefer that when JR states in an investor call that WDW(the supposed crown jewel of Parks and Resort) is dropping in attendance - that all the Executive Bonus' go to repair the crown jewels.

Seen as TWDC isn't exactly strapped for cash that it is not a matter of this or that but both.

See all the problems with the Parks can pinned to Pressler he broke the theme parks when he introduced FP and One Disney merchandise...