Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

[Darth Sidious]

If you were having this discusson with a Disney lawyer of PR talking head, then you'd wind up arguing the definition of an 'answer'

What is is?

 

[WDW1974]

If it is Disney it appears to be a harmless thing. The question however is where does it end: How much information will we need to give up in the future in order to do business with certain companies. That's why the question of the consequences of the opt out is so important. There are stories of employers who demanded access to the Facebook accounts of people who applied for jobs. When will we get to the point when nobody will be hired unless they have a Facebook profile? There is a hunger for knowledge about others - because the data is there. And because companies think they can make money with it. I know that Disney is not the only who does that, but it is very disheartening that a company that I value for its creativity has decided to go into the datamining business.

As I said above, society is still in the process of finding out how to deal with data. I truly think that Disney's initiative is a step in the wrong direction. It can lead us to a world where one day in the future the access to many things we take for granted today is only open to those who are willing to share everything about them.

We have already taken many steps in that direction with the excuse of security.

I bolded the part that interests me the most because it is part and parcel of Disney's strategy with this program.

Disney isn't the evil government or Mark Zuckerberg's attempt at world domination, right? Disney is a person with feelings. Disney loves us. Disney would never do anything to harm us or our children. Disney would never take advantage of people. Disney would never do anything that walks right up to the line of what is legal, ethical or moral. Disney is Uncle Walt, Mickey Mouse, Cinderella and DVC timeshare DVDs.

Disney is a huge global media company and it only answers to Wall Street. It is far from harmless. Again, Disney isn't spending a few billion dollars unless it has full plans to use that money to make billions more. Now ... how many different ways can this tech do that?

That's a great question ...

 

[RSoxNo1]

All Markey needs to do is read the internal doc that Lee posted for you to understand that it wasnt ludicrous or utterly ill-informed.

This is what I was referring to before where it explicitly says:

To reach the profit targets and overarching design goals set for this project, as well as export the technology and its fruit to other companies, Disney understood early on that there could be no opt-out for any guest. Application of an 'opt-out mode' would remove the control and thereby defeat the financial gains required of such a massive capital outlay defined publicly devoid of detail.

 

[flynnibus]

I think the tone wouldn't be a big deal if it were just motions passing back and forth between lawyers.

I disagree on two points...

One - never say something in private you wouldn't say in public. So, there shouldn't be two standards

Two - the types of paperwork the lawyers were discussing were not private 'notes' but actual court docs that are also public

 

[HenryMystic]

And how do you ensure no one opts out? You make their vacation enjoyment dependent upon it by getting rid of regular FP and creating FP+. Technically, you CAN opt out, but how many people WILL? If you do, you'll be waiting in some heinous standby lines.

 

[WDW1974]

The Congressman's letter could be boiled down to 'I heard in the paper... and the paper said this.. and the paper said that..' - it referenced nothing but the Times article and referenced it countless times. I bet that is what they took offense too.. that the Congressman purely on a newspaper article felt it was necessary and appropriate to grandstand and send a letter asking for details... that Disney claims were right out in the open to start.. and if you just talked to us, we would have happily helped you with.

I think using the Times as his 'source' of all his knowledge.. is what ed Iger off.

Weak, Flynn.

It may have referenced the Times story, but you have no idea what other sources may have been used to pen it. And there is nothing grandstanding about standing up to a huge corporation that is about to launch something unprcedented involving technology, privacy rights and children and ASK questions or DEMAND answers.

Sure, Disney answers questions.

Two years later and I'm still trying to get one official to simply state whether Lou Mongello is an employee of the company. To me, that's like saying 'he is one, but we don't wish to release that information'.

On something much more important, allegedly being able to 'opt out' of something designed so no one will eventually will be able to, they can't ... I mean won't simply answer the question.

Leave the damn Congressman alone (nice to see one actually doing his job) and focus on what his letter addressed and Disney's obfuscation in the matter. That's what is important.

We don't have the facts. What's wrong with getting them?

 

[flynnibus]

Weak, Flynn.

It may have referenced the Times story, but you have no idea what other sources may have been used to pen it. And there is nothing grandstanding about standing up to a huge corporation that is about to launch something unprcedented involving technology, privacy rights and children and ASK or DEMAND questions.

Sure, Disney answers questions.

Two years later and I'm still trying to get one official to simply state whether Lou Mongello is an employee of the company. To me, that's like saying 'he is one, but we don't wish to release that information'.

On something much more important, allegedly being able to 'opt out' of something designed so no one will eventually will be able to, they can't ... I mean won't simply answer the question.

Leave the damn Congressman alone (nice to see one actually doing his job) and focus on what his letter addressed and Disney's obfuscation in the matter. That's what is important.

We don't have the facts. What's wrong with getting them?

I disagree - I think the info provided addresses the child concerns head on, and also clarifies the vast majority of the concerns listed here previously.

Selling your info? Answered
Children? Answered
Where opt outs are... Mostly answered

 

[Bcakd]

This is the crux of the problem.

The Disney theme park of my youth while growing up in the sixties SoCal surf culture was a major force in shaping my life. I was so floored by my experiences at Disneyland, the immersion, the attention to detail, the overall feeling of being someplace other than Anaheim... I was glad to part with all of my hard earned babysitting money that I saved up for a year! I was virtually begging Disney to take it, on themed merchandise I could only get at Disneyland.

I connected so strongly to the rides and parades and shows, I wanted to capture a small portion of that magic and take it home with me. And it was tough to make a decision on what to buy, because so much of the merchandise was specific and unique, it was difficult to choose just a few items. At the end of a very long, exhausting, but wonderous day at Disneyland was the agonizing Sophie's Choice of souvenir decisions before exiting to the parking lot.

Now fast forward to the 21st century.

Disney doesn't want to Wow! me anymore with leading edge attractions and heavily detailed atmospheres that are also embodied in park and ride specific merchandise. They want to play mind games and prey upon any impulse control issues I might be struggling with, by making it incredibly easy -- too easy -- to whip out my TragicBand and acquire cheap, flimsy, and poorly themed junk that I may not actually want for more than a few seconds.

They don't want to earn my respect and admiration by knocking my socks off with experiences I can't get anywhere else. They simply want to play me by diminishing the time it takes to make a purchase so that I cannot dwell over it long enough to change my mind.

The technology and science that was once employed by WED Imagineering -- the way cool marriage of imagination and engineering -- to create talking parrots and fighting pirates and singing ghosts is now being employed to remove my earnings from my credit card account as quickly and as effortlessly as possible. It's not about filling me up with so much fantasy and wonder that I'll gladly reward them with merchandise purchases I truly desire. It's more about treating me to psychological smoke and mirrors by pretending to be my friend with interactive queues and name recognition in an effort to con me into liking them and trusting them and giving them my money.

It's not sincere, it's not genuine, and it's not ethical.

No wonder Iger was rude to Congress. He's peddling disingenuous marketing practices and got busted for it.

There's nothing magical about Mickey Mouse running a shell game on Main Street USA.

I hate to admit it, but you are right. I want my kids to grow up with the Disney I grew up with. And it's VERY hard for me to say anything negative about it because I do love it so much. But, it's true they are cheaping up the place. And I don't mind that they pump out all those fake smells on Main Street and that a Turkey Leg is almost $10. But what I do mind, is that on our last trip (Oct. 2011) it was so crowded we could barely move. I mind that they had a marathon on the Saturday night that we were there and every participant got free admission the next day. Yeah, that's nice, but the park had already been running at capacity for 3 days before that, they knew there was no way all these people could fit, much less have a good time.

Now with that being said, I do believe that the Mickeys Toon Town Fair being closed and all the constuction of the new Fantasyland probably made it feel way more crowded than maybe it actually was. But, the fact remains....Quit selling tickets and making reservations if you see you already have 10,000 people coming on June 3rd or whatever.

I know I would rather be told there isn't availibilty on my dates and reschedule than to be there and not be able to make it around World Showcase in one day. It was so crowded we we caught the boat back to Future World. And don't even get me started on the fact that we waited 2 1/2 hours on a bus to take us back to our resort from Animal Kingdom at 130pm. We finally just caught one to MK and tried from there. So, YES I do feel like Disney isn't respecting me as much as I respect them. There I said it!

Now, as a group of people who obviously love Disney..What do we do?

Anyone? Anyone?

 

[WDW1974]

Simple... he wants his own 'Eddie Sotto' centralized thread... and this is his play at it. The one stop shopping for spirit's thoughts on the 'World...

Well, I am a big shot like Eddie and all. Like Eddie, I've not worked at WDI this century either!

But this isn't 'a play' at anything. I'm not say someone with expertise in datamining who might be thinking that posting here could land me a job on the NEXT GEN team.

I started the thread about my trip to WDW and UNI and what I experienced and some news and notes that came out of it. But the conversation grew and it was stimulating and intellectual and enjoyable. I also started to realize that since I am so polarizing to many who view Disney as a person or a religious cult and can do no wrong that if I stuck mostly to this thread (I have no intention of not posting elsewhere, this just has been a very weird period that has kept me here) that all of my 'haters' would simply post in the hundreds of other threads here and ignore this one.

After all, how many folks stay away from Eddie's thread?

Unfortunately, some have chosen to simply use this thread as a platform for 'taking the Spirt down' ... it's stupid and childish. They should simply go talk Pixie Dust and let those who want to have rational, meaty, adult talk alone.

You could always start a thread called 'Flynn's tech corner' ... or 'Flynn's Fabulous World of Social Media' ... but you like posting in this thread and I like having you around, personally!

 

[WDW1974]

It's sad how one Magical thread like this one has poisoned my thinking. I was just reading an article about a 4yr old dying of a terminal disease that had me all choked up. Then the last few lines came:



And in my mind now, I was waiting for "Sadly, Addi was discouraged at how stale the park had grown compared to her parent's descriptions from years past and wondered why they were wasting so much money trying to track her."

And to answer the taunt before it's thrown out there: No, I'm going to continue to read this forum and thread. It's like Honey Boo Boo, sometimes despite the desire, you just can't turn away.

Please, drama queen much?

Let's leave the dying children out of this. Make a Wish always brings kids to WDW. It is a wonderful program and does great things for families at their lowest ebb.

But you do it great diservice when you attempt to tie in criticisms of how WDW is run, managed and neglected by making a comparison.

One thing has nothing to do with the other unless you're suggesting that since WDW puts smiles on the faces of dying children that any criticism is therefore off-limits.

 

[Bolna]

The attachment does answer that question in the first paragraph where it says (and I am paraphrasing here) that guests can choose whether or not to opt in (and then it goes on) BUT GUEST WHO DO CHOOSE MYMAGIC WILL EXPERIENCE EVERYTHING!! In essence it says, yes you have a choice, it doesn't implicitly state what those who don't opt in get, but it does say what those who do opt in get ... therefore by doing that we can infer that everything the "Opt-Inners" get will not be given to the "Opt-Outters" ... no fastpasses, no luck with ADRs, etc ..

That is your interpretation.

Let's have a look at the precise quotes:

Question:

If a guest choosed not to use MagicBand, what disadvantages, if any, will that guest experience while visiting a Disney park (i.e. longer waits for attractions, etc.)?

Supposed Answer:

My Magic+ is a completely optional program
Guests can enjoy admission to the park without having to register or provide any personal information. But guests who do choose to participate in MyMagic+ will enjoy the convenience of having their tickets, guaranteed ride times for shows and attractions, resort room access and other enhanced features all in one place. Using MagicBands or cards for purchases is also optional.

So if I wanted to defend MyMagic+ in an internet discussion, I could easily argue against what you are saying. It would go like this: Disney did not say state that anyone's experience would be lesser, they just said that without the MagicBand you won't have everything conveniently in one place. They don't say that without the MagicBand you won't get have guaranteed ride times or other enhanced features because obviously without the MagicBand you would still have tickets and resort room access if you opt out, so that sentence can only have been about the convenience.

So - question not answered as there still is debate possible.

 

[WDW1974]

Yes, publishing the letter (which was fine in and of itself), was grandstanding by a politician looking for political hay. But Disney is one of the big boys, and when you play with the big boys you should expect that sort of thing, and why Iger gets paid the big bucks. Playing mock-offended in the response just comes across as shallow and with a weak hand, regardless of the reality.

Of course it did.

And to have typos in something like that. It isn't a post on MAGIC.

Just dumb and sloppy and not even needed yet ... so kneejerk as well.

Sorta like buying Marvel or doing the Avatar deal ... or even when he supported Michael's decision to buy Go.com.

But, despite being a faux top one percenter, I haven't earned $110 milion in the last three years and I've never run a media company the size of Disney, so I am sure Bob is smarter than I am.

 

[WDW1974]

Didn't you say Mr.Spirit, sir, that Staggs was going to accompany him to WDW? I'm guessing/assuming George will be the one showing them around and what not.

Nope. Staggs should be there as well. I just have a confirmation that Bob has been spotted on the ground by one of my minions of Disney hate and destruction. No one has told me they've spotted Tom ... yet.

And, yes, George (possibly Meg as well) will definitely be showing them around. ... If he can stop signing autographs!

 

[flynnibus]

You could always start a thread called 'Flynn's tech corner' ... or 'Flynn's Fabulous World of Social Media'

Nah, I prefer to spread the wealth

... but you like posting in this thread and I like having you around, personally!

You bring up interesting points of discussion when you leave out the hyperbole and personal stuff (which you've been a hell of a lot better at in recently) so I like to engage... Even if we don't always see eye to eye on the topic

 

[DougK]

Nope. Staggs should be there as well. I just have a confirmation that Bob has been spotted on the ground by one of my minions of Disney hate and destruction. No one has told me they've spotted Tom ... yet.

And, yes, George (possibly Meg as well) will definitely be showing them around. ... If he can stop signing autographs!

Are Iger and Staggs looking for something in particular? Or is this just a "social visit"?

 

[Disneyhead'71]

Let it go dear, it's over! My beef was with someone else. And we have straightend it out. You tried to make this your argument. It's not, and never was. I am not going to argue or trade snide remarks with you. Now, go on and continue you discussions of how Disney is tracking our every move. By the way, so does Target, Walmart, McDonalds, Amazon, .....ect!
It's unfortunately the world we live in. When the banks started issuing debit cards, we lost our privacy. It sucks, but I have nothing to hide. If they (the man) want to track my purchases, then go for it. They will be bored to tears to see I perfer Angel Soft to Charmin, and I buy Colgate instead of Crest, regardless of what 4 out of 5 dentist say. I also spend way too much at Baby Gap and God knows I spend WAY TOO MUCH going to Disney World every year or so. These are things that anyone who knows me, already know. When we as a people start to believe the "sky is falling", then I promise you it will. I'm not saying we should be ignorant of the things our government or anyone elses does...I just think the media gets off on making us scared of our own shadow!! And if we are scared, then they win! Was that on topic enough? ...and NO I didn't mean that snarky.

Target, Walmart, McDonald's, and Amazon never tried to fit me with an Electronic Location Monitoring Bracelet. The only entity that I know of that does that is the Sheriff's Department. I think I would stop shopping at ANY store that said they wanting me to wear an Electronic Location Monitoring Bracelet to shop in their store. Oh sure, I could opt out but I wouldn't get any sale items. Full price for those that opt out.

And I don't think that there is a problem with Rep. Markey asking what Disney's protocols are after reading in the NYT that Disney plans on putting Electronic Location Monitoring Bracelets on children. And why wouldn't he do this behind closed doors? Well his jobs is to protect his constituency. And if he feels he is doing just that, wouldn't he want them to KNOW that he is doing that? Wouldn't you want your boss to know that you are doing your job?

 

[WDW1974]

It's not sincere, it's not genuine, and it's not ethical.

No wonder Iger was rude to Congress. He's peddling disingenuous marketing practices and got busted for it.

There's nothing magical about Mickey Mouse running a shell game on Main Street USA.

If there were a 'love button' your entire post would have gotten it.

But the above sums up the whole Iger letter fiasco quite well ...

I just have a Spirited feeling that things are going to get worse for Bob before ... well, if they ever get better?

 

[WDW1974]

Are Iger and Staggs looking for something in particular? Or is this just a "social visit"?

At that level, no such thing as a social visit.

I know the agenda is MyMagic+ and pretty much nothing else. ... I have heard they even have selected families (different ethnic groups too, conveniently) to model the bracelets and show the big shots how they light up Mickey's head at entrances etc.

But there have been major issues simply getting a small test group ready. ... And if you can't have the system up and running for say ... the guests at one deluxe resort who have bought packages with the company (i.e. no room only deals), how the hell can you expect to roll this out for EVERY guest that passes under the Pixie Dust Coated Arches?

 

[BlueSkyDriveBy]

Please forgive me if this issue has been addressed previously. I don't have the time to peruse all of the remaining posts to answer my question.

Does anyone know or have there been any discussions regarding the requirements to use the TragicBand if you're not staying at a resort on property?

I'm asking because of the obvious impulse buying support offered by the technology, which is the main reason why TWDC is spending upwards of $2B to implement it.

Will users of the TragicBand be required to give Disney a valid credit card number in order to use it?

If the answer is yes, then those guests who do not have a credit card or those who'd rather pay for everything in cash, particularly those visiting for just one day, will get a far less inclusive park experience without it. Which would be nothing short of deliberate hostage taking of your buying habits, not to mention punishing those guests with less socioeconomic status.

 

[flynnibus]

And to have typos in something like that. It isn't a post on MAGIC.

I keep hearing this.. what typos are people referring to?