Spirited News and Observations and Opinions ...

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
<<Greg on January 11th, 2013 at 10:19 pm

Why did the responses to questions end on January 8th?>>

From The Disney Parks Blog post 'authored' by Tom Staggs. They have had comments all week since the announcement, but decided to simply ignore the comments (beyond the negative ones that never were posted) rather than interact with their guests ... you know, sorta what social media is really supposed to be about (how much do you get paid, Duncan?)
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
Interesting article. I wonder if some of this $2B is actually being spent outside of WDW. The article talked about interactive elements on cruise ships and in CA. It seems Nextgen Might be rolled out worldwide.

NextGen started on the cruise ships and already exists in some forms.
 

PhotoDave219

Well-Known Member
I do wonder how much of the tech was made/developed in house? The NYT article quoted the CEO of Lo Que, maker of Six Flags' Flash Pass, whose site has a device that looks awfully similar to the Magic Band. A post from the middle to end of last year had suggested that the IT firm CA was doing consulting work.

Developed? In house from what Ive heard.

Implemented? Contractors.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
well said - it's not that disney doesn't have anything to do and needs more.. it's what it's offering is falling well behind what it used to offer.. and everyone else has closed the gap between 'Disney' and the rest.

Agreed.

I would argue that when it comes to cutting edge/state of the art themed attractions in the Orlando market that Disney has been falling behind since IOA opened in 1999 and is now playing catch up with UNI and SW ... and plastic attractions that aren't even in working order from Day 1 do not make me feel any better that Disney even gets that.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Spirit, my friend, you have info. And you have theories based on that info. But no one can ever claim that you aren't clear on what you are presenting. Unfortunately, your theories almost always, ok, just always, seem to pan out.

It isn't easy being me, but I deal with it ... can't believe Peyton blew it for the Denver Mannings.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I think that's the key here.

The happy-shiny reports on MyMagic+ have all come from Executive Vice Presidents like Nick Franklin who can't even put on a sport coat much less a necktie for major media interviews, or Chairman Staggs who has to pretend to like everything his communications assistant posts on his blog for him. :cool:

I think, other than this Spirit, you are the only one who has commented on the dude's presentation. Look, if this were a sales convention at a Ramada Inn in Delaware, I would have expected him to be dressed better ... and it was pretty obvious he was about as prepared for meeting/talking with the media as I am to do brain surgery on a fanboi.

Does Disney's top dogs (Iger and Staggs) sit back and think 'yeah, most of our guests at WDW are slobs so we need our execs to be more relatable?'' or is this just yet another example of how far the company has fallen. Every OLC/TDR 'suit' I encountered when visiting Tokyo had a polished/classy wardrobe and attitude, so different from what I see here.

The weak link here is the front line operations teams. If the Ops guys on the ground in WDW aren't buying into it, and/or can still identify a half dozen glaring problems with it 30 days from implementation, then Orlando, We Have A Problem.

That's not a concept exclusive to Disney; it's something that plays out every day in the worst of corporate America and I've seen it before, where the corner offices far removed from the operation gush over some new initiative but the guys out on the floor dealing with the flesh and blood customers 16 hours per day know instinctively it's doomed. And if the Ops guys think it's doomed, then it's almost always doomed.

What's sad is that the men (and a few token women in pantsuits) in the corner offices never bother to ask the Ops teams about this in advance, and they never listen to them six months out when they still have time to abort or radically change the whole thing.

Any industry that deals directly with paying customers like Disney theme parks do should be listening to their Ops teams as if they were the voice of God. It doesn't appear that the executive suits responsible for MyMagic+ actually bothered to ask any front line Operations Cast Members or low level management anything about this when they had the chance. That could be a Billion dollar mistake for them.

Ops has been sounding the alarms on this since at least 2010. It just hasn't mattered. TDO and Burbank simply close their ears and demand that a square peg fit into a round hole.
 

Lil Fort

Well-Known Member
OK, so I missed a few (hundred?) posts while dealing with business matters and setting up a new high-tech telecom center in the Spirit Cave:cool:. But I am wading back in to try and catch up on posts that require further discussion. Like the above.

TWDC is leveraging the entire Disney BRAND with its NEXT GEN initiative. @flynnibus has been nothing if not steadfast and admirable in his defense of Disney's data-mining, even as a parent himself, and the justification for an expenditure that is almost certain to eclipse the price of every theme park Disney has ever built in the states.

Right now, it already surpasses DAK and Disney-MGM combined in $$$ laid out.

In his effort to sell everyone on the 'trust in the Mouse' and 'technology is your friend' (do I recall a shark in Finding Nemo saying the same thing?), our pal has stumbled onto what's a major challenge and the goal of NEXT GEN. Now, if I told y'all that what's quoted above contains in it what is known to TWDC as the potential undoing of the entire project, would you believe me? Ah ... c'mon ... I just delivered my old pal Georgie K back to WDW for you and I kinda have a record of getting things right. It's not coincidence, my charm or roguish good looks.

In fact, you can just put aside that thought and continue reading.



Remember something called COPPA? Remember the piece of legislation the Spirit told you to look to for answers as to what could derail this? Analyze the words above in the context I've given.

Know this, Disney is dedicated to going down this path. Yeah, beyond the '$2 billion tag' ... my pal flynn is really good at giving what sorta sound like MBA-ish talking points on something highly technical. Not being a techie myself (anyone who has had to deal with me by phone this week understands this pefectly!) I understand why he may stay away from the tech aspects (like the fact that much of the datamining and tracking will come from the very toys you choose to bring with you to the ultimate toybox). I can see why he would stay away from the tech specs behind the bracelets, the chiptix, the room keys (@danlb_2000 has tackled some of these issues in another thread and appears to be a go to person on that front as has @Lil Fort too!) ...

It can't be ignored, though. We all know that. Whether he knew it or not, what Flynnibus posted is causing the building held up by the Seven Dwarfs to shake, rattle and roll like a little jolt under the San Andreas.
Wow! I'm flattered that you would consider me a 'go to person' :) I do have some experience with RFID and also COPPA, but I wouldn't consider myself an expert. My experience with RFID technology goes way back to the days of designing software interfaces to railroad readers (one of the earliest RFID devices - I hope I'm not dating myself...) and my COPPA knowledge is purely because I need to know about that stuff because of my web based business. I don't have any experience with anything as high tech as what Disney is implementing with NextGen.

I did a bit of research on the the recent COPPA changes when you initially mentioned it, but this thread kinda drifted, so I set it aside. I'm glad you brought it back up because I was genuinely curious. One of the things that stood out to me was the following part of one of the modified definitions (particularly the part that I have bolded):

The definition of personal information requiring parental notice and consent before collection now includes “persistent identifiers” that can be used to recognize users over time and across different websites or online services. However, no parental notice and consent is required when an operator collects a persistent identifier for the sole purpose of supporting the website or online service’s internal operations, such as contextual advertising, frequency capping, legal compliance, site analysis, and network communications. Without parental consent, such information may never be used or disclosed to contact a specific individual, including through behavioral advertising, to amass a profile on a specific individual, or for any other purpose. The final amended Rule also adds a process allowing industry to seek formal approval to add permitted activities to the definition of support for internal operations.

Is Disney trying to get NextGen stuffed through the 'internal operations' loophole?
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Hot off the press
From the LA Times:
http://latimes.com/#section/-1/article/p2p-73991614/

When will the digital pixie dust -- MyMagic+ -- get to Disneyland?

Disney has unveiled plans to roll out a revolutionary new digital reservation system at its four Florida theme parks allowing visitors to pre-book rides, shows, parades, restaurants and character meet-and-greets months before a vacation.

So when will this latest dose of pixie dust spread to Disneyland and other parks in the theme park chain?

Disney officials won't divulge an expansion timeline, but mouse-watchers say the new MyMagic+ vacation management system rolling out this spring at Walt Disney World could debut at Anaheim's two theme parks as early as next year.

How does MyMagic+ work? After signing up online for perks and reservations, visitors will receive a MagicBand radio frequency identification (RFID) bracelet that functions in the Orlando parks as a digital wallet filled with their hotel room key, park ticket, FastPass vouchers, souvenir photos, dinner reservations and credit card information -- all available at the flick of the wrist.

Let's say you want to snap a picture with Cinderella, redeem your FastPass for Space Mountain, purchase some Mickey Mouse ears, chow down on a corn dog, sip on a Dole Whip, hop from one park to another, pop into your hotel room or check in for dinner. Simply wave your MagicBand over a sensor and -- voila -- the transaction is complete. No need to carry cash, credit, tickets or room keys.

On-the-fly changes to FastPass or dinner reservations can be made via a smartphone app, which will also provide real-time ride wait times and FastPass availability at the Magic Kingdom, Epcot, Disney's Hollywood Studios and Disney's Animal Kingdom.

The MyMagic+ service and the MagicBand bracelets will be free to Disney hotel guests and annual pass-holders. Day visitors who arrive by car or stay at off-site hotels will be issued an RFID card. Custom MagicBands will be available for purchase.

The MyMagic+/MagicBand initiative is part of a larger $1-billion NextGen project designed to introduce more technology-enabled interactions into the Disney vacation empire.

NextGen enhancements have already turned up in interactive ride queues in Florida (Haunted Mansion, Test Track and Dumbo), the illuminating Glow with the Show ears that work in concert with the "World of Color" show in Anaheim, the enchanted artwork that comes to life aboard Disney cruise ships and the smartphone-enabled treasure hunts at Hawaii's Aulani resort.

The futuristic changes promise to fundamentally transform the theme park experience for both good and bad.

Critics have been quick to point out the MagicBands are nothing more than Orwellian tracking devices loaded with personal data and capable of recording your every movement and purchase.

At the same time, MyMagic+ has the potential to establish a two-tier caste system of haves and have-nots. Will day visitors and annual pass-holders find that deep-pocketed Disney hotel guests have virtually snapped up every FastPass voucher, restaurant reservation and parade seat before the parks open each day?

While the day-to-day realities of the new system remain to be seen, history tells us Disney is meticulous about visitor experience and making adjustments based on customer reactions. Expect Disney World to address any concerns and iron out all the wrinkles during the initial test-and-adjust phase.

As for MagicBands at Disneyland and Disney California Adventure?

Disneyland officials will only say they are waiting to see how MyMagic+ and MagicBands work with Walt Disney World's 47 million annual visitors before deciding whether to implement the system in Anaheim.

"This is rolling out at Walt Disney World and we don't yet know how it will look at other parks," Disneyland spokeswoman Suzi Brown said in a statement. "The way we think about these experiences will vary based on the unique ways guests enjoy each of our parks, resorts and other vacation experiences."

MiceChat columnist Al Lutz, the bane of Disney's existence, reports that Disneyland's MyMagic+/MagicBand will start rolling out in summer 2014 and continue into 2015.

It's a safe bet that Disney has had the foresight to future-proof new attractions like DCA's Cars Land, Disneyland's Fantasy Faire princess village opening this spring and the Shanghai Disneyland park set to debut in late 2015 or early 2016.

The only thing I got out of that was the very lukewarm statement from Suzi Q, which basically -- read between the lines -- admitted that they know WDW's system will not work in Anaheim, was not to count on anything on the left coast until they have a full handle on the swamp version.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Interesting article. I wonder if some of this $2B is actually being spent outside of WDW. The article talked about interactive elements on cruise ships and in CA. It seems Nextgen Might be rolled out worldwide.

They want to bring elements of it to many aspects of the business. And it has been used in different ways already on the DCL and backstage at WDW. But you will not see this same model used beyond WDW.
 

the.dreamfinder

Well-Known Member
Could you link me to this, I am interested to read more on it. I could see Disney selling certain parts of the tech if necessary to recoup some investment costs. Although, I am not sure they made it but the cost sure seems like they did.
First, I misspelled the name of the company whose CEO was quoted, the company's name is Lo-Q.
Here's an image
Qcredit7.JPG

Looks awfully familiar
http://www./wp-content/uploads/2013/01/magicband.jpg
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
I do wonder how much of the tech was made/developed in house? The NYT article quoted the CEO of Lo Que, maker of Six Flags' Flash Pass, whose site has a device that looks awfully similar to the Magic Band. A post from the middle to end of last year had suggested that the IT firm CA was doing consulting work.

I know the Accenture & Cisco Business Group has been handling much of the FL-based implementation of NEXT GEN along with WDI and TDO ... others are involved, but they are the 'big fish' in the datamining pond.
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
Wow! I'm flattered that you would consider me a 'go to person' :) I do have some experience with RFID and also COPPA, but I wouldn't consider myself an expert. My experience with RFID technology goes way back to the days of designing software interfaces to railroad readers (one of the earliest RFID devices - I hope I'm not dating myself...) and my COPPA knowledge is purely because I need to know about that stuff because of my web based business. I don't have any experience with anything as high tech as what Disney is implementing with NextGen.

I did a bit of research on the the recent COPPA changes when you initially mentioned it, but this thread kinda drifted, so I set it aside. I'm glad you brought it back up because I was genuinely curious. One of the things that stood out to me was the following part of one of the modified definitions (particularly the part that I have bolded):

The definition of personal information requiring parental notice and consent before collection now includes “persistent identifiers” that can be used to recognize users over time and across different websites or online services. However, no parental notice and consent is required when an operator collects a persistent identifier for the sole purpose of supporting the website or online service’s internal operations, such as contextual advertising, frequency capping, legal compliance, site analysis, and network communications. Without parental consent, such information may never be used or disclosed to contact a specific individual, including through behavioral advertising, to amass a profile on a specific individual, or for any other purpose. The final amended Rule also adds a process allowing industry to seek formal approval to add permitted activities to the definition of support for internal operations.

Is Disney trying to get NextGen stuffed through the 'internal operations' loophole?

A VERY interesting question, indeed ...
 

WDW1974

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
But... but... but... Oh come on!!! Throw us a bone! ;)

First, congrats on being post #2000 in my thread (I'll make sure @Lee mails you a LE pin, lanyard and Orange Bird Viynlmation) ... as to a bone, I may well throw you the entire carcass before all is said and done. Just not right now ... unless you (or someone else) puts the whole thing together first. Many answers can be found in @flynnibus' s posts on the subject.
 

Lil Fort

Well-Known Member
First, congrats on being post #2000 in my thread (I'll make sure @Lee mails you a LE pin, lanyard and Orange Bird Viynlmation) ... as to a bone, I may well throw you the entire carcass before all is said and done. Just not right now ... unless you (or someone else) puts the whole thing together first. Many answers can be found in @flynnibus' s posts on the subject.
LOL!

Off to don my thinking cap...
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
First, congrats on being post #2000 in my thread (I'll make sure @Lee mails you a LE pin, lanyard and Orange Bird Viynlmation) ... as to a bone, I may well throw you the entire carcass before all is said and done. Just not right now ... unless you (or someone else) puts the whole thing together first. Many answers can be found in @flynnibus' s posts on the subject.

I went back and re-read his posts. It seemed like he was saying that it's difficult to direct market anything to kids since they tend to not have cell phones or e-mail addresses yet. You have to wait for them to initiate contact. Unless they are planning on turning the MyMagic+ site into a version of Facebook for little kids or something crazy like that I would have to agree. Even if kids go to WDW and their preferences are tracked how do you then use that info to make money? It's not like they will be logging into MyMagic+ repeatedly after their trip.
 

Lil Fort

Well-Known Member
First, congrats on being post #2000 in my thread (I'll make sure @Lee mails you a LE pin, lanyard and Orange Bird Viynlmation) ... as to a bone, I may well throw you the entire carcass before all is said and done. Just not right now ... unless you (or someone else) puts the whole thing together first. Many answers can be found in @flynnibus' s posts on the subject.

Here are the thoughts on this that I have put together in my pretty little head:
1. According to COPPA: Without parental consent, personal information about a child younger than 13 may never be used or disclosed to contact a specific individual, including through behavioral advertising, to amass a profile on a specific individual, or for any other purpose.
2. The final amended COPPA Rule also adds a process allowing industry to seek formal approval to add permitted activities to the definition of support for internal operations.
3. Disney is rolling out FP+ along with NextGen. A part of FP+ includes the ability to 'link' members of a party together. Linking Johnny Jr to Johnny Sr would be considered personally identifiable information. Under COPPA this would be a no-no if the parents do not give consent.
Unless...
4. Disney is able to classify the linking of Johnny Jr and Johnny Sr's FP+ data as a part of their 'internal operations'.

That's my story and I'm stickin' to it! How did I do? Am I in the ballpark?
 

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