Spending Less with Disney

[John park hopper]

The ability to get student loans has been putting the cart before the horse in far too many cases. When the ability to incur debt against an "education" that doesn't yield sufficient annual remuneration to pay it back in a reasonable amount of time is economically insane. Since these debts in the majority of cases cannot be discharged through the bankruptcy process (Brunner test), they are a fairly "safe" bet for the lenders, but a toxic hazard for any consumer who lacks a clear understanding of the terms and conditions of the product.

Agree with you 100%. Case in point my son wanted to get a degree in marine biology (he liked to skin dive). Having worked in that field I told him you would need a minimum of a PhD to get a decent job that paid maybe 80k and probably 10-12 years of college. I convinced him to get a degree in Pharmacy and you can vacation where ever you want and skin dive. Few times he listened to the old man. In 6 years he had a a degree in Nuclear Pharmacy making $100K+/year--- paid off his college loans in 5 years. Student loans for worthless degrees is insane











[/QUOTE]

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

yes it is bigger but I was going with your assumption that the debt crisis is some how new. it is not. the fact that there is no collateralize behind the debt is actually a good thing. So the debt is not the actually problem, what has gotten with that debt is the problem.

you hit it on the head.
Stagnant wages and the increasing wealth income gap IMO is a much bigger issue that will effect Disney than a student loan default.

close doesn't count much now does it?

I think all those problems are interwoven...it’s the scale of the problem and how they could crush entire economies/businesses that’s new.

That is “new” in so many ways.

The ability to get student loans has been putting the cart before the horse in far too many cases. When the ability to incur debt against an "education" that doesn't yield sufficient annual remuneration to pay it back in a reasonable amount of time is economically insane. Since these debts in the majority of cases cannot be discharged through the bankruptcy process (Brunner test), they are a fairly "safe" bet for the lenders, but a toxic hazard for any consumer who lacks a clear understanding of the terms and conditions of the product.

Right...so how does that have affect Disney?

Because if there’s no money to spend - frivolous money which dries up first - then Disney is literally destroyed. That’s the catch 22 on their parks - which require masses of people, not just a few thick wallets

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Agree with you 100%. Case in point my son wanted to get a degree in marine biology (he liked to skin dive). Having worked in that field I told him you would need a minimum of a PhD to get a decent job that paid maybe 80k and probably 10-12 years of college. I convinced him to get a degree in Pharmacy and you can vacation where ever you want and skin dive. Few times he listened to the old man. In 6 years he had a a degree in Nuclear Pharmacy making $100K+/year--- paid off his college loans in 5 years. Student loans for worthless degrees is insane

The problem is that your son is by far the exception...not the rule

 

[General Hux]

So, I figure, annually I’m at the $5k mark right now. Its money I used to spend with Disney that I no longer spend with Disney. It’s not an affordability thing, nor have I cut out any vacations. I just decided I want to limit the money I give to Disney as my way of a silent protest for the many “cash grabs” and dumb policy decisions they’ve made.

A lot of people take the “That’s it, I’m done with Disney” approach. My take is – I’ll still go, but I’m just going to give Disney a little less of my money. Sure, there’s a mindset that Disney doesn’t care and I’m easily replaceable. In most cases yes, in some, no. But it works for me.

As an example, I go to the Orlando area about every month for 3-5 nights. 7 of those visits were with Disney, on property at a Deluxe or Moderate. The rest are at Uni or the Uni area.

I’ve cut my on property stays from 7 down to 5. Instead I opt for places like Hilton Bonnet Creek, Hilton Orlando, maybe somewhere over on Palm Pkwy or Western Way if I’m using points. I’ve also cut out 1 TS dinner from every trip and opt to eat and spend an evening outside the “World” at places that IMO have better a quality (and I’m actually beginning to enjoy escaping the resort for a few hours). Might be cutting my on-property stays down to 4 soon.

Anybody else do this? If so, what part of your vacation dollar are you keeping away from Disney.

My spending has gone way up on my Disney vacations, but Disney is getting less of that beautiful $ they desire so much. We are a family of 8, and so staying on property requires 2 rooms to stay in anything close to a reasonable budget. I did that twice at Coronado Springs because we love staying on property. But it is impossible to do anymore. For LESS money than staying on property, I can put my family of 8 in a massive villa suite off property (Vistana Villages usually) that is the size of a small house. Literally $200 a night and you can have accommodations that are mindblowing compared to anything in that price range on property. And to get something similarly SIZED on property?? Sorry, but it is at least 3 times the cost... and I do mean at least.

I think my situation is case in point how their greed can lose them money sometimes. I want to stay on property, I am even willing to pay a premium for it. But I am not going to pay 3-4 times as much. I spend $15K on a Disney vacation every 1.5 years or so. Disney used to get all of it, now they get just the park tickets and food (although less of the food because staying off property makes them lose a lot of that $ too).

Why can't they have villa sized rooms in the value or moderate resorts? Charge me $250-300 a night for a villa in a value resort and I would probably go for it. But to get something that sleeps more than 5 people is like you are a family of aliens or something, they just simply do not have it except in deluxe resorts.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

My spending has gone way up on my Disney vacations, but Disney is getting less of that beautiful $ they desire so much. We are a family of 8, and so staying on property requires 2 rooms to stay in anything close to a reasonable budget. I did that twice at Coronado Springs because we love staying on property. But it is impossible to do anymore. For LESS money than staying on property, I can put my family of 8 in a massive villa suite off property (Vistana Villages usually) that is the size of a small house. Literally $200 a night and you can have accommodations that are mindblowing compared to anything in that price range on property. And to get something similarly SIZED on property?? Sorry, but it is at least 3 times the cost... and I do mean at least.

I think my situation is case in point how their greed can lose them money sometimes. I want to stay on property, I am even willing to pay a premium for it. But I am not going to pay 3-4 times as much. I spend $15K on a Disney vacation every 1.5 years or so. Disney used to get all of it, now they get just the park tickets and food (although less of the food because staying off property makes them lose a lot of that $ too).

Why can't they have villa sized rooms in the value or moderate resorts? Charge me $250-300 a night for a villa in a value resort and I would probably go for it. But to get something that sleeps more than 5 people is like you are a family of aliens or something, they just simply do not have it except in deluxe resorts.

Because you are required in their world view to now pay a minimum of $30,000 upfront for DVC plus $1500 and up annually for their operating costs in units where the staffing/overhead is already stripped down to bare minimum.

It’s good work - if you can get it

 

[EthylCooper]

I used to go to WDW an average of 2-3 weeks per year. Now it's more like once every 2-3 years, and since my last trip (Oct 2017), I haven't really felt the itch to go back. Disney's been building new things, sure, but hemorrhaging magic at the same time. I've had a Six Flags pass for the past two years and it's not the immersive, magic experience that Disney used to be, but neither is Disney anymore and I'm getting ridiculously high bang for my buck out of it.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I used to go to WDW an average of 2-3 weeks per year. Now it's more like once every 2-3 years, and since my last trip (Oct 2017), I haven't really felt the itch to go back. Disney's been building new things, sure, but hemorrhaging magic at the same time. I've had a Six Flags pass for the past two years and it's not the immersive, magic experience that Disney used to be, but neither is Disney anymore and I'm getting ridiculously high bang for my buck out of it.

I have to say...we are getting decent, low cost fulfillment out of great adventure and That’s surprising....it’s an experiment for me.

I was gearing up to go back to wdw for annuals again next year sometime - as per my pattern. But the desire isn’t really there. It may change...but I have started to wonder what I’m Paying for?

It happens to ardent supporters at times.

 

[philcan]

I know I have cut back on stuff that I have bought and will likely do more cuts on future trips. They dropped the ball & made multiple blunders with service my last trip. a few are expected but this was multiple slips. The money grabs are irritating. However, it's their right to do the $ grab & mine to cut back. If there are people that still pony up $ great for them. I choose not to. same goes for TV I don't like I don't watch. Eventually there will be a tipping point. Perhaps going someplace else I may find a new place to go & really cut out Disney.

 

[eliza61nyc]

The ability to get student loans has been putting the cart before the horse in far too many cases. When the ability to incur debt against an "education" that doesn't yield sufficient annual remuneration to pay it back in a reasonable amount of time is economically insane. Since these debts in the majority of cases cannot be discharged through the bankruptcy process (Brunner test), they are a fairly "safe" bet for the lenders, but a toxic hazard for any consumer who lacks a clear understanding of the terms and conditions of the product.

Here's what i don't understand though net, I know a number of folks who simply aren't paying their loans back. Nothing happens to them. They still got mortgages, car notes etc. One person I know defaulted on a undergraduate loan then 5 years later got a loan to get her MBA, now I will say she said her interest rate on her mortgage is high but basically besides from that nothing else has changed.

I wonder if it's going to be like the aftermath of the housing bust where people were simply walking away from their mortgages letting them go into default

the problem IMO is not how to pay for college, it's that college cost are out of line in the first place. someone mentioned marine biology well who's going to take care of our ocean's?? so what only a "rich" kid can get a degree in those so called "worthless" degrees. what about all the other kids? my kids are not engineers or IT people. what do we do with those kids? say tough coconuts kid, the only degrees worth anything are in STEM fields? do we force the kids with no aptitude for science to become a pharmacist or nurse simply because that's the only area to get jobs. don't think I want the c student in anatomy filling prescriptions for me.

 

[General Hux]

I have to say...we are getting decent, low cost fulfillment out of great adventure and That’s surprising....it’s an experiment for me.

I was gearing up to go back to wdw for annuals again next year sometime - as per my pattern. But the desire isn’t really there. It may change...but I have started to wonder what I’m Paying for?

It happens to ardent supporters at times.

2017 was my last round of APs. I bought 8 APs and went 2 times for ~12 days each at off times. Seems like that is some good money for Disney. I was planning to renew them, but my frustration with Disney's lack of on-site availability has made me take a break until this fall.

I understand their desire to keep guests in the bubble and get more $ that way. I'm fine with it.
Im also fine with paying a premium, even paying potentially double what off-site rooms cost in order to be in the magic bubble.

But if you are going to do that you need to at least make an attempt to stay within a reasonable range above what off-site hotels are charging.

Every time I compare pricing, I almost don't believe my eyes. Comparable room on property is right around 4.5X the cost. Huh? How in the world did this happen? How can it be that you have a customer willing to pay double what your competition charges and you don't find a way to take his money? It just seems like bad business to me.

And along that line, I am solidly middle class, which seems like the main demographic WDW should be targetting. I can afford to drop $15K a year on trips and will likely keep coming back if (when) the next recession hits, although perhaps a more budget trip. I am also training my 6 kids to love Disney with each trip, again seems like a big win for them long term as my kids grow and have their own families.

It seems like I am the last Disney fan they would want staying outside the bubble or reducing their trip frequency. I'm a huge fan that brings other huge fans to their bubble, I am willing to pay a lot, im guaranteed to come back multiple times in the future... win, win, win. Yet I find myself reducing my trip frequency and staying off property? Someone in the board room at Disney isn't paying attention to let situations like this happen.

 

[BeentoallDParks]

Someone else is stepping up and paying out so that moneys not being missed. ...But it does feel good when you think youre sticking it to the Man. Disneys still winning.

For now. But brand loyalty matters a lot in the long run. The previous generation had perfect nostalgia for Disney and would do anything to go there. But Disney is cultivating a generation that just doesn’t care as much. I know so many kids who could take it or leave it—and soon, they will be grown and making the vacation decisions and payments. There will come a time when the high prices deter more people because the value of the brand is being diminished.

 

[John park hopper]

Here's what i don't understand though net, I know a number of folks who simply aren't paying their loans back. Nothing happens to them. They still got mortgages, car notes etc. One person I know defaulted on a undergraduate loan then 5 years later got a loan to get her MBA, now I will say she said her interest rate on her mortgage is high but basically besides from that nothing else has changed.

I wonder if it's going to be like the aftermath of the housing bust where people were simply walking away from their mortgages letting them go into default

the problem IMO is not how to pay for college, it's that college cost are out of line in the first place. someone mentioned marine biology well who's going to take care of our ocean's?? so what only a "rich" kid can get a degree in those so called "worthless" degrees. what about all the other kids? my kids are not engineers or IT people. what do we do with those kids? say tough coconuts kid, the only degrees worth anything are in STEM fields? do we force the kids with no aptitude for science to become a pharmacist or nurse simply because that's the only area to get jobs. don't think I want the c student in anatomy filling prescriptions for me.

I mentioned Marine Biology. I did not say it was a worthless degree but I saw many who incurred student loans in order to get a BS or masters in Marine Biology and there were no jobs available and those jobs available paid very little, simply there were far to many with that degree. As far as Pharmacy it is a highly competitive major (they don't accept C students) to get into and yes you need an aptitude for science. Unfortunately the emphasis in the last 20+ years or so has been everyone needs a college education and we have gotten away from the vocational training --plumbers, electricians, welders, skilled craftsmen etc. College should be a stepping stone into the real world, a degree in something that has no demand many would say is worthless and a waste of 4 or more years There are ways to go to college and not incur massive debt.

 

[JIMINYCR]

For now. But brand loyalty matters a lot in the long run. The previous generation had perfect nostalgia for Disney and would do anything to go there. But Disney is cultivating a generation that just doesn’t care as much. I know so many kids who could take it or leave it—and soon, they will be grown and making the vacation decisions and payments. There will come a time when the high prices deter more people because the value of the brand is being diminished.

And at THAT point, whenever it comes, Disney will readjust to deal with the change in guests spending habits. Until that happens they will continue on with business as is because these "money grabs, parking fees, price increases arent affecting them yet, even with the adjustments the OP and others are doing. There just isnt enough of a cash slowdown for them to notice..

 

[networkpro]

Here's what i don't understand though net, I know a number of folks who simply aren't paying their loans back. Nothing happens to them. They still got mortgages, car notes etc. One person I know defaulted on a undergraduate loan then 5 years later got a loan to get her MBA, now I will say she said her interest rate on her mortgage is high but basically besides from that nothing else has changed.

I wonder if it's going to be like the aftermath of the housing bust where people were simply walking away from their mortgages letting them go into default

the problem IMO is not how to pay for college, it's that college cost are out of line in the first place. someone mentioned marine biology well who's going to take care of our ocean's?? so what only a "rich" kid can get a degree in those so called "worthless" degrees. what about all the other kids? my kids are not engineers or IT people. what do we do with those kids? say tough coconuts kid, the only degrees worth anything are in STEM fields? do we force the kids with no aptitude for science to become a pharmacist or nurse simply because that's the only area to get jobs. don't think I want the c student in anatomy filling prescriptions for me.

Colleges in a lot of departments have strayed from economic reality. Thinking for thinking's sake is fine, but it doesn't pay the bills unless you are tenured, published, and have attracted enough attention to be funded by grants. Its an industry these days. A really bad treadmill.

There are plenty of well-paying jobs that dont require a college degree, but do require training and critical thinking skill that dont involve literature, foreign language skills, or philosphy ... most of these are what keeps our society going and are good honest work.

 

[RustySpork]

Colleges in a lot of departments have strayed from economic reality. Thinking for thinking's sake is fine, but it doesn't pay the bills unless you are tenured, published, and have attracted enough attention to be funded by grants. Its an industry these days. A really bad treadmill.

There are plenty of well-paying jobs that dont require a college degree, but do require training and critical thinking skill that dont involve literature, foreign language skills, or philosphy ... most of these are what keeps our society going and are good honest work.

The good news is that there are a significant amount of vocational high schools and colleges that specialize in accommodating this demographic. I believe there are more than 100 of them in Florida alone.

 

[John park hopper]

There are about 15 in the state of SC. when Boeing moved to Charleston Trident Tech College started classes geared for Boeing trades. Things are getting better (vocational training) IMO it's got a ways to go

 

[FCivish3]

I’ve cut my on property stays from 7 down to 5. Instead I opt for places like Hilton Bonnet Creek, Hilton Orlando, maybe somewhere over on Palm Pkwy or Western Way if I’m using points.

How do you like Bonnet Creek? What is it like to stay there compared to, say, Saratoga Springs?

I have a ton of DVC points and make multiple trips per year. But I also own Worldmark Timeshare and, when I try to get DVC propeties though RCI, they keep popping up with Bonnet Creek. It looks good, but I'm not sure of all the ways that it is different.

Do you have any comments or suggestions? Thanks

Being a Worldmark Owner if I use that to go to Orlando/DW, I generally stay at the Reunion timeshare (amazing) or Kingston Reef

 

[Mrchips0401]

Scorp16

So, I figure, annually I’m at the $5k mark right now. Its money I used to spend with Disney that I no longer spend with Disney. It’s not an affordability thing, nor have I cut out any vacations. I just decided I want to limit the money I give to Disney as my way of a silent protest for the many “cash grabs” and dumb policy decisions they’ve made.

A lot of people take the “That’s it, I’m done with Disney” approach. My take is – I’ll still go, but I’m just going to give Disney a little less of my money. Sure, there’s a mindset that Disney doesn’t care and I’m easily replaceable. In most cases yes, in some, no. But it works for me.

As an example, I go to the Orlando area about every month for 3-5 nights. 7 of those visits were with Disney, on property at a Deluxe or Moderate. The rest are at Uni or the Uni area.

I’ve cut my on property stays from 7 down to 5. Instead I opt for places like Hilton Bonnet Creek, Hilton Orlando, maybe somewhere over on Palm Pkwy or Western Way if I’m using points. I’ve also cut out 1 TS dinner from every trip and opt to eat and spend an evening outside the “World” at places that IMO have better a quality (and I’m actually beginning to enjoy escaping the resort for a few hours). Might be cutting my on-property stays down to 4 soon.

Anybody else do this? If so, what part of your vacation dollar are you keeping away from Disney.

....mostly curious what are the Disney dumb policy decisions have you rethinking your commitment to WDW??

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

How do you like Bonnet Creek? What is it like to stay there compared to, say, Saratoga Springs?

I have a ton of DVC points and make multiple trips per year. But I also own Worldmark Timeshare and, when I try to get DVC propeties though RCI, they keep popping up with Bonnet Creek. It looks good, but I'm not sure of all the ways that it is different.

Do you have any comments or suggestions? Thanks

Being a Worldmark Owner if I use that to go to Orlando/DW, I generally stay at the Reunion timeshare (amazing) or Kingston Reef

The Bonnet Creek area is nice. Hilton has a great pool (if you're into that) - you do get EMH and the 60 day FP window

The cons are: Don't rely on their bus service. Too infrequent and unreliable. No charging privileges

 

["El Gran Magnifico"]

....mostly curious what are the Disney dumb policy decisions have you rethinking your commitment to WDW??

Let's start with a few:

The continual ticket price increases with little or no notice (I get the fact that prices will increase - It's the "no notice" way they go about it that irks me - give people some time to plan, adjust, or absorb.)

The percentage increases on many things (ex. food and beverage). - Again, I understand things increase. But they don't increase year over year to the extent Disney increases them.

Cost cutting in lieu of quality (This spans across food and beverage along with merchandise). This is one of the major ones for me.

Selling a park 3 times in a day thus devaluing the ticket of the individual who gets booted from the park early unless they fork over more cash for the hard ticket.