Spending Less with Disney

Thingamabob

Active Member
On the surface...no.

But...as much as that’s conventional wisdom - the history of products and modern retail has shown that anything can dip substantially - or outright fall.

I don’t think I’m qualified to predict anything to a level or surety
Of course certain products have there spikes and there dips in productivity in any business. That is what good marketers are for to put other products on the shelves so the consumers will start purchasing those new products and Disney is at the top with marketing new products all the time.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Original Poster
Do you think there would be a collective "stiffening" from all or even a large percentage of the die hard Disney goers?

A lot of different dynamics here. Orlando is upping its game in many areas. Uni has acquired new land (a lot of it). Disney has enough to worry about with the increased competition. I'm pretty sure most Disney AP holders also have a Uni AP (or at least spend time at Uni). Not all, but a lot. Overall, there won't be a lot of stiffening from the majority (unless Disney really screws up somewhere - or Uni really blows the doors off)

The more someone perceives alienation by Disney (the application of that word is completely subjective), the more other options seem more viable. I love Disney, but I wouldn't put myself in the "Rah Rah Disney can do no wrong group". I don't think there are as many in that group as people think. I personally don't know anyone that states "I'm all about Disney..so I wouldn't set foot in Uni, SeaWorld, nor visit anything outside the gates of the resort.

I admit, a lot of my feelings have to do with proximity. Not sure I would visit as frequently as I do if I lived, say 1000 miles away (The truth is I wouldn't). Disney is my "beach". People want to live next to a beach thinking they'll go frequently. Eventually, one day they come to the realization: "Hey, I haven't been to the beach in 6 months".

I'm not there yet. I am though, starting to realize that there's a heck of a lot of seaweed, a few jellyfish, and once in a while some really strong rip currents. I'm at the point of realizing that the downtown entertainment district has some pretty cool places too. I'll still go to the beach - but I may not go as frequently and may stay for a shorter duration. And maybe I'm starting to realize that there's another beach a few miles north that has a better Tiki Bar and makes me feel more welcomed..
 

Thingamabob

Active Member
A lot of different dynamics here. Orlando is upping its game in many areas. Uni has acquired new land (a lot of it). Disney has enough to worry about with the increased competition. I'm pretty sure most Disney AP holders also have a Uni AP (or at least spend time at Uni). Not all, but a lot. Overall, there won't be a lot of stiffening from the majority (unless Disney really screws up somewhere - or Uni really blows the doors off)

The more someone perceives alienation by Disney (the application of that word is completely subjective), the more other options seem more viable. I love Disney, but I wouldn't put myself in the "Rah Rah Disney can do no wrong group". I don't think there are as many in that group as people think. I personally don't know anyone that states "I'm all about Disney..so I wouldn't set foot in Uni, SeaWorld, nor visit anything outside the gates of the resort.

I admit, a lot of my feelings have to do with proximity. Not sure I would visit as frequently as I do if I lived, say 1000 miles away (The truth is I wouldn't). Disney is my "beach". People want to live next to a beach thinking they'll go frequently. Eventually, one day they come to the realization: "Hey, I haven't been to the beach in 6 months".

I'm not there yet. I am though, starting to realize that there's a heck of a lot of seaweed, a few jellyfish, and once in a while some really strong rip currents. I'm at the point of realizing that the downtown entertainment district has some pretty cool places too. I'll still go to the beach - but I may not go as frequently and may stay for a shorter duration. And maybe I'm starting to realize that there's another beach a few miles north that has a better Tiki Bar and makes me feel more welcomed..
I totally understand what you are saying and I am fine with all of that. There is no problem with how you want to set up your time at WDW compared to the next person. I also agree with you 100% that Disney has its faults and there are many. I also enjoy going to UNI and Seaworld as well when my family gets to Florida and we don't live that far away only in Georgia. I can also see the pressure that Uni may be putting on Disney with the purchase of land, but I still think there is enough going around that Disney is certainly not going to suffer in any way at all even if Uni becomes the super power park in the future. Disney is a multimedia franchise that basically started out as nothing and one or two parks is not going to take them down or affect them drastically at all. I understand this is just my opinion and others are entitled to there opinion and that is perfectly fine.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Of course certain products have there spikes and there dips in productivity in any business. That is what good marketers are for to put other products on the shelves so the consumers will start purchasing those new products and Disney is at the top with marketing new products all the time.

We’re talking specifically about “parks”...not new products.

The debate here is fundamentally what is often the case: have they wrecklessly eroded the value by driving attendance up while not investing to maintain the experience? This whole discussion is another manifestation of that.

And a “new product” is not a fireworks show or selling 9-12 of the same stuff and calling it “an experience”...that’s for fools.

It’s things that provide longterm value and develop a new wave of devoted; loyal clientele. Those are new areas to parks and entertainment locations/districts. Things that build foundation, not gimmicks.
 

Thingamabob

Active Member
We’re talking specifically about “parks”...not new products.

The debate here is fundamentally what is often the case: have they wrecklessly eroded the value by driving attendance up while not investing to maintain the experience? This whole discussion is another manifestation of that.

And a “new product” is not a fireworks show or selling 9-12 of the same stuff and calling it “an experience”...that’s for fools.

It’s things that provide longterm value and develop a new wave of devoted; loyal clientele. Those are new areas to parks and entertainment locations/districts. Things that build foundation, not gimmicks.
The thing is like I said in my previous post to another member here is that Universal and even other parks getting larger isn't going to take away from the Disney business. Disney knows what they are doing even though it leaves us scratching our heads from time to time. The majority of the time Disney comes out looking good in the end even after all the griping that goes on from the consumers. I still think there will never be anything that would lead to a complete collapse to the Disney parks unless it was a complete disaster like a complete overhaul of the Magic Kingdom like someone was suggesting in another thread which I doubt will ever happen.
 

MagicRat

Well-Known Member
Me: Hello my name is Bruce.

All: Hello Bruce

Me: I didn’t drink the whole beer, just 2/3 of it or the 15 after that.

All: Nice work Bruce

That wouldn’t happen in that community and doesn’t deserve to be on this one either.

Your little protest does nothing for you or teaches Disney a lesson. Have some b..ls and stop going if you feel so strongly about it.

Otherwise you are just looking for some gratification on a message board.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The thing is like I said in my previous post to another member here is that Universal and even other parks getting larger isn't going to take away from the Disney business. Disney knows what they are doing even though it leaves us scratching our heads from time to time. The majority of the time Disney comes out looking good in the end even after all the griping that goes on from the consumers. I still think there will never be anything that would lead to a complete collapse to the Disney parks unless it was a complete disaster like a complete overhaul of the Magic Kingdom like someone was suggesting in another thread which I doubt will ever happen.
Complete collapse is not the danger...a steady decline leading to selling them off would be. Nobody wants that...no one.
Don’t think the Disney management is that bright - by the way. They do plenty of stupid things...because the motivations are often not conducive to allowing higher brain thought.

It’s something to watch.
Me: Hello my name is Bruce.

All: Hello Bruce

Me: I didn’t drink the whole beer, just 2/3 of it or the 15 after that.

All: Nice work Bruce

That wouldn’t happen in that community and doesn’t deserve to be on this one either.

Your little protest does nothing for you or teaches Disney a lesson. Have some b..ls and stop going if you feel so strongly about it.

Otherwise you are just looking for some gratification on a message board.

Easy, easy, Newt...

You can’t “dead lift” 500 keystrokes all at once. You have to build up to it...I don’t want you to strain your internet muscles
 

ddbowdoin

Well-Known Member
I think what ruined my experience: prior to owning a home my wife and I went on a number of absolutely epic Disney trips, when it was easier financially. We always stayed in premium hotels (usually Beach Club) and would spend 7 days in the parks with all the bells and whistles, premium dining etc. it wasn’t that we were wealthy, we were making POOR life decisions!

Now that I’m a little older and strapped with a mortgage we’ve done Disney a few times and either stayed off site, stayed less time in cheaper wdw hotels, stayed with friends and drove to the parks daily and all of that never compared to “doing it the right way” but the “right way” is just beyond us these days until we get a little more settled in life.

That’s what killed it for me. I still love Disney, still follow a ton of influencers on IG etc but the days of planning trips is starting to look like every 5 plus years etc
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
I love ya, Liz...

But you continually miss on this one point.
No doubt that WDW - in particular - is an incredible financial success story and continues to be. But the reason it got to this point where spray tan bob can drain it is because of what they invested to get it there...and that is an unseen “balance” that is beyond just the cash register.

When long standing, high spending clientele like Scorp and I draw back...it’s a problem.

The counter to that is always: “somebody is there to take their place”. What a tremendous myth from the young...because by every single economic indicator - they’re gonna be broke. They need a loan from a boomer or a gen x to back up the talk 😂
lol
I do, I admit, I swear some times I can't figure out what some folks are talking about.

So you know the problem with living long enough is that you hear all types of prognostications about the younger generations demise that never seems to come to pass. lol,
Now I've got a few millennials in my house and they are pretty routine. 20's college, drink, chase after girls they have no chance of landing, they just got their first job and their first apartment. I beat in their heads about saving, spending and living below their means. some times they listen, some times they don't
when they get 30, they'll probably do the pretty routine things too, get married, have kids, swear they are so much better parents than the previous generation and go to Disney.

We've been hearing about how horrible folks are going to have it in retirement for the last 20 years and yet folks are still retiring.
One thing is true, a bear market recession is coming, no it will not be any where as catastrophic as the 2007/2008 freaky deaky meltdown.
Disney will probably see a dip and then they will give a bunch of discounts and the whole process will start again.

So yeah, when we stop going they will be a bunch more folks to take our places.

remember also we're getting old. so the youngins don't see all the complaints here as a problem. so they 'll keep going, disney is actually building their loyal clientele of the future. the new kids love ip, they aren't so hung up on Epcot not having a coherent theme.
 
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Thingamabob

Active Member
Complete collapse is not the danger...a steady decline leading to selling them off would be. Nobody wants that...no one.
Don’t think the Disney management is that bright - by the way. They do plenty of stupid things...because the motivations are often not conducive to allowing higher brain thought.

It’s something to watch.


Easy, easy, Newt...

You can’t “dead lift” 500 keystrokes all at once. You have to build up to it...I don’t want you to strain your internet muscles
How long has the Disney company been in business? What did they start out with? Where are they now? They must have been doing something right during the last several decades. To think there is going to be a steady decline all of the sudden hasn't looked at what Disney has done in the past. They are one of the top businesses out there.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
lol
I do, I admit, I swear some times I can't figure out what some folks are talking about.

So you know the problem with living long enough is that you hear all types of prognostications about the younger generations demise that never seems to come to pass. lol,
Now I've got a few millennials in my house and they are pretty routine. 20's college, drink, chase after girls they have no chance of landing, they just got their first job and their first apartment. I beat in their heads about saving, spending and living below their means. some times they listen, some times they don't
when they get 30, they'll probably do the pretty routine things too, get married, have kids, swear they are so much better parents than the previous generation and go to Disney.

We've been hearing about how horrible folks are going to have it in retirement for the last 20 years and yet folks are still retiring.
One thing is true, a bear market recession is coming, no it will not be any where as catastrophic as the 2007/2008 freaky deaky meltdown.
Disney will probably see a dip and then they will give a bunch of discounts and the whole process will start again.

So yeah, when we stop going they will be a bunch more folks to take our places.

remember also we're getting old. so the youngins don't see all the complaints here as a problem. so they 'll keep going, disney is actually building their loyal clientele of the future. the new kids love ip, they aren't so hung up on Epcot not having a coherent theme.
I know what you’re saying...predictions of demise have always been around.

The difference here is that gen x is now assured of “accomplishing” less financially that the boomers did...and the economic trajectory is starting to dip downward even on a sharper angle.

The “next generation” for the first time in Disney’s 100 years looks to not have the money. Their prices are gonna exasperate that.

It’s not fiction: people are screwed. They just don’t or won’t realize it yet. The dream of millennials is mark zuckerberg...but you usually wake up slobbering on your pillow when you dream. 😂

What makes DISNEY different in larger economic discussions is what I often drone on about: they need the masses. Doesn’t work if you quadruple the price with less people.

Any thought that they are “making it more luxury” is pure fantasy.

Bob iger isn’t building these rides and timeshares in Florida to Serve less people...is anyone mad enough to buy that? But bob don’t care...believe that.

That’s not how this works - they know better. So does reduction of business by core clientele matter?

Maybe not today...and maybe not tomorrow...but soon, and for the rest of your life. We’ll always have Disneyland Paris, kid.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
How long has the Disney company been in business? What did they start out with? Where are they now? They must have been doing something right during the last several decades. To think there is going to be a steady decline all of the sudden hasn't looked at what Disney has done in the past. They are one of the top businesses out there.

Of course they did some things right...but you need to look Longview.

Eastman Kodak did things right, so did General Electric, General Motors....

Places that would have eaten Disney for breakfast for the first 75 years or so if it’s history.

All product fail eventually. What made Disney wise/successful was that they managed to gamble “intelligently” while keeping a solid hold on their assets to fall back on.

Parks are one of those most solid assets...overcharging them for 10 years is overly aggressive and stupid.
 

"El Gran Magnifico"

Mr Flibble is Very Cross.
Original Poster
Me: Hello my name is Bruce.

All: Hello Bruce

Me: I didn’t drink the whole beer, just 2/3 of it or the 15 after that.

All: Nice work Bruce

That wouldn’t happen in that community and doesn’t deserve to be on this one either.

Your little protest does nothing for you or teaches Disney a lesson. Have some b..ls and stop going if you feel so strongly about it.

Otherwise you are just looking for some gratification on a message board.

Whatever you say, Bruce..whatever you say
 

Thingamabob

Active Member
Of course they did some things right...but you need to look Longview.

Eastman Kodak did things right, so did General Electric, General Motors....

Places that would have eaten Disney for breakfast for the first 75 years or so if it’s history.

All product fail eventually. What made Disney wise/successful was that they managed to gamble “intelligently” while keeping a solid hold on their assets to fall back on.

Parks are one of those most solid assets...overcharging them for 10 years is overly aggressive and stupid.
Every single park over charges and people still pay. Customers want quality family entertainment and that is what both Disney and Universal is supplying. So people still flock to the gates and they will come if they continue to stick to that formula of what Walt wanted in the beginning and that was quality family entertainment where the entire family could enjoy themselves on a vacation. There might be some tweaks here and there, but that vision is never going to be strayed away from. That is what will keep families coming to the parks for even long after I am gone.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
Every single park over charges and people still pay. Customers want quality family entertainment and that is what both Disney and Universal is supplying. So people still flock to the gates and they will come if they continue to stick to that formula of what Walt wanted in the beginning and that was quality family entertainment where the entire family could enjoy themselves on a vacation. There might be some tweaks here and there, but that vision is never going to be strayed away from. That is what will keep families coming to the parks for even long after I am gone.

We aren’t gonna agree completely on this...but I admire your zeal and writing
 

Thingamabob

Active Member
We aren’t gonna agree completely on this...but I admire your zeal and writing
Thank You, like I said with my first post in the thread people can choose whichever path they choose to take. They can boycott Disney, cut there vacation, or continue to go 10 times per year and give Disney thousands of dollars. No matter what Disney is going to continue there business the way they feel is the best way for future achievement and success.
 

eliza61nyc

Well-Known Member
That’s not how this works - they know better. So does reduction of business by core clientele matter?

Maybe not today...and maybe not tomorrow...but soon, and for the rest of your life. We’ll always have Disneyland Paris, kid.


I do think it matters, the problem I think many folks here are having is that the "core" clientele is shifting. the things they like are shifting.

Right now, the "oldheads" that remember the old Disney are the core clientele but we're like the WWII vets we just celebrated earlier this month, we're dying off, there are less and less of us.

So the youngins that are replacing us will become the new "core" clientele.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
I do think it matters, the problem I think many folks here are having is that the "core" clientele is shifting. the things they like are shifting.

Right now, the "oldheads" that remember the old Disney are the core clientele but we're like the WWII vets we just celebrated earlier this month, we're dying off, there are less and less of us.

So the youngins that are replacing us will become the new "core" clientele.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
It's funny how I used to think that too. But other than holiday weeks/weekends - More often than not, I've stayed at Disney resorts and passed by rooms that went completely unoccupied for my entire stay. Not disagreeing that my $ probably doesn't make a significant dent but I'm sure they'd have rather filled those rooms than having them go unoccupied.
Capacity in a hotel like Disney's can't be measured by individual room nights... that's why you'll often hear them talking about anything over ~85% occupancy as "full" capacity. People say for many nights at a time, so it's not like they can piece together single night stays that fit perfectly into their occupancy gaps.
 

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