Solving the WDW Capcity Problem. Ideas?

[kap91]

Not every expenditure at Disney is a profit based investment per se. Many things like road repair, painting and cleaning are just plain overhead and charged out against over all income. They are not a profit center in and of themselves. If that is the way it is being looked at, and I have suspicions that this is what they are doing, there is no significant quantifiable measurement. It is an operating system designed to reduce costs via better planning, staffing and stocking and overall improved park resource management. None of us will ever know how successful it is because that is something that Disney would never divulge. I don't recall them ever publishing what it cost to clean a restroom.

I totally agree with this. Some (usually the ones calling mm+ a 2billion dollar disaster) claim that management is specifically looking for mm+ to generate quantifiable revenue.

And to the thought another poster posited on Disney having enough money to do tons of rapid expansion:

You say the parks worldwide make 2.2 billion a year. As an interesting coincidence that's roughly the amount they're already spending world-wide on expansion per year. While Disney makes boatloads of money a year they do not, in fact, have limitless pockets and are probably sensible in not biting off more than they can chew. Hence one of the reasons I suggest relatively slow expansion. To spend a billion or more per year at WDW alone on expansion would see the neglect of the other parks worldwide.

 

[ConvenientTruth]

I think in the end they are currently trying to do just this...

Magic Kingdom has expanded over the last few years with new attraction, mainly Fantasyland. If you include the proposed (and currently constructed) changes to walkways, specific dining areas, and the hub you can tell they consider this an issue and are trying to "fix" it.

Also if you look at what MDE and fastpass plus are potentially capable of in the form of logistics and crowd dismemberment then you can see further spreading of the crowds. While the system is not perfect (and a very debatable topic, it will have its uses once more data is gathered.

 

[thomas998]

As I was saying I think Fastpass got people out of the queues. My impression was that there are a lot of standy queues with their serpentine sections roped off most of the time. Not easy, but they could demolish the section of building that these are in, and replace with a small ride or walkthrough, thus increasing attractions without decreasing space.

Fastpass didn't reduce the queue sizes. On most rides the impact of a fastpass is only to lengthen the time you spend in the standby line at any given point from what it would be without fastpass. Fastpass may be a slight problem in the crowding but it is no where near as big a problem as strollers. Just look at any given stroller parking area and the square feet that are consumed. If you eliminated the strollers you would free up a lot of space that would allow the people more room and reduce the feeling of being crowded. Or if they want to allow the strollers then they need to measure the space taken up by the stroller section and factor that into how many people that they allow in the park... Lord help you when you go during a time that they are at maximum capacity.

 

[Arty Cordova]

I think you have to be smart about it. To truly enjoy Disney you have to plan around the school year and ultimately you will have to take your child out of school (yes, I said it.) Your child will have to miss school to have a magical time at Disney. For example, by far the best time to visit Disney is the first week of December (during the week) when the park is all dressed up and all the kids are at school. Literally you don't ever need a fast pass.

However, if you do decide to go Disney during the obvious times such as Spring Break, Christmas, Thanksgiving, long weekends and Summer; then be ready to complain and have debates like the ones above.

 

[Virtual Toad]

I think Disney was on to something with the Dumbo ride play area, the Winnie the Pooh line, and the Haunted Mansion line. The thing that makes me the most perturbed in a busy place is waiting in line. I don't mind waiting. I mind waiting in line. It gets hot, you don't feel like you're making any progress, your legs hurt, your kids drive you crazy because they just voice all the things you're already feeling, but not voicing, there's nowhere to sit down, etc. I think the park on a crowded day would be much more enjoyable for all if Disney continued to incorporate these interactive play areas so that the inevitable waiting in line is much more enjoyable for all.

I agree. Dumbo was completely off our list before because of the insane *lines*. Now that we can wait in an air-conditioned play area and let the kids run off steam, it's become a pleasant must-do. Not all guests "get" the concept which is a shame. They should definitely try to expand on this concept.

 

[morningstar]

Adding more hours wouldn't guarantee better crowd distribution over those hours.

No guarantee, but it should help. Early birds will arrive at rope drop and leave the park early. Night owls will not get in until after noon and will go to 2AM. That still leaves around noon when the combined crowd will be there, but people who do their research will find out about that and go back to the pool or take a nap, and come back for late night. Peak hours get less peaky. Even if some people go commando from rope drop to closing, with park hopper maybe those people can finish four parks in three days, and then 3/4 as many of them are there at a time. In general unless everybody purely uses the longer hours to attend full-time and for as many days, there will be some crowd reduction by increasing hours.

 

[morningstar]

Fastpass didn't reduce the queue sizes. On most rides the impact of a fastpass is only to lengthen the time you spend in the standby line at any given point from what it would be without fastpass.

Not in my impression. Logically, with Fastpass, a ride will admit fewer riders per minute from the standby line. However, the standby line contains fewer riders, because they can ride with a Fastpass instead. It's possible for the effect of Fastpass to actually decrease the standby wait time, but at least it should decrease the number of people standing in line at any one time.

Say for example an E-ticket ride without Fastpass had 1 hour waits. It has a capacity of 10 guests per minute. Therefore there are 600 guests in the line. Then they institute Fastpass. Now they admit 5 guests from the Fastpass line and 5 guests from the standby line per minute. Also, most people prefer to get a Fastpass rather than wait more than 30 minutes. So the standby line doesn't grow to a wait time of more than 30 minutes. That means 150 people are in the line. Even if you assume people will still wait an hour (maybe they want to ride twice in a row), then there are 300 people in the standby line. Even if you assume the standby wait time grows to 1:30, there are still 450 people in the standby line, fewer than before.

 

[muteki]

Let Universal build a 3rd, 4th gate and start having them focus on girls less than 12 years old. Also, build more Universal hotels.

 

[thomas998]

Not in my impression. Logically, with Fastpass, a ride will admit fewer riders per minute from the standby line. However, the standby line contains fewer riders, because they can ride with a Fastpass instead. It's possible for the effect of Fastpass to actually decrease the standby wait time, but at least it should decrease the number of people standing in line at any one time.

Say for example an E-ticket ride without Fastpass had 1 hour waits. It has a capacity of 10 guests per minute. Therefore there are 600 guests in the line. Then they institute Fastpass. Now they admit 5 guests from the Fastpass line and 5 guests from the standby line per minute. Also, most people prefer to get a Fastpass rather than wait more than 30 minutes. So the standby line doesn't grow to a wait time of more than 30 minutes. That means 150 people are in the line. Even if you assume people will still wait an hour (maybe they want to ride twice in a row), then there are 300 people in the standby line. Even if you assume the standby wait time grows to 1:30, there are still 450 people in the standby line, fewer than before.

I don't think you understood my point. If you are standing at the main queue of a ride that has a fastpass in operation it will take you more time before you get on than if you stood in the same line at the exact same main queue point and they didn't have fastpass in operation. You are assuming that fewer people stand in line for a fastpass ride than do for a non-fastpass ride. That assumption is where I disagree with you, when a ride is popular people will stand inline all the way to the entry point of the queue whether the sign says 45 minutes or 90 minutes. They only put a fastpass on a popular ride so there is no reason to assume lines will be shorter for standby people.

 

[unkadug]

And the mods delete my sensible post about eliminating tax-payer paid vacations for the poor and yet this drivel remains?

Politics and this forum do not mix.

 

[englanddg]

Politics and this forum do not mix.

I voted for Bob Saget.

 

[bethymouse]

I just feel there are too many "discounts" offered and way too much marketing to our overseas friends! I think they're trying to fix the "capacity" problem at MK with the new hub design, but it won't help with crowds! There are also way too many "special" events IMHO. Now, there just is no "quiet" season to go to WDW. There's always something going on! Disney World is looking to make $$$$$$$$$$ , and they're certainly doing that! They don't care about the crowds! Wait until the Mine Train opens! Q'ell nightmare!

 

[BigTxEars]

I just feel there are too many "discounts" offered and way too much marketing to our overseas friends! I think they're trying to fix the "capacity" problem at MK with the new hub design, but it won't help with crowds! There are also way too many "special" events IMHO. Now, there just is no "quiet" season to go to WDW. There's always something going on! Disney World is looking to make $$$$$$$$$$ , and they're certainly doing that! They don't care about the crowds! Wait until the Mine Train opens! Q'ell nightmare!

Oh I agree, less crowds are not going to happen, bigger and bigger crowds will. I think Disney is trying things (FP+ for example) to help control what they can not stop, growing crowds.

 

[Victor Kelly]

Honestly get rid of fastpass in all its incarnations. It keeps people meandering in the parks instead of in lines waiting for attractions. Next up, Disney will never stop trying to pack the parks to overflowing anymore. The parks used to have several times per year of lower attendance. This can be a problem, why go if it is jam packed?

Time to address attractions, and restaurants. Why so many restaurants closed? Especially in MK? Why no new omnimover dark rides that are family friendly? Not just in MK but anywhere.

 

[jdmdisney99]

 

[JoeT63]

More truck breakdowns in front of the lions on Kilimanjaro Safari.

 

[morningstar]

I don't think you understood my point. If you are standing at the main queue of a ride that has a fastpass in operation it will take you more time before you get on than if you stood in the same line at the exact same main queue point and they didn't have fastpass in operation.

But my point is not about how long it takes to get on the ride, it's how many people are "corralled" in the queue and thus not obstructing the walkways.

You are assuming that fewer people stand in line for a fastpass ride than do for a non-fastpass ride. That assumption is where I disagree with you, when a ride is popular people will stand inline all the way to the entry point of the queue whether the sign says 45 minutes or 90 minutes.

The "entry point" of a queue is a variable length from boarding the ride, because they rope off some winding sections of the queue as necessary.

 

[MY_NAME_STITCH]

Stop running package discounts period. Especially during the busy times of the year. They're practically begging people to vacation there. Our first visit in 2002 was without discounts in value season and you could walk on every attraction. Ah the good old days. Now even in value season you have to beat back the crowds.

 

[BigTxEars]

More truck breakdowns in front of the lions on Kilimanjaro Safari.

Now that is funny. Maybe with some lioness mating calls eminating from the tour cars?

I know the female lions do most of the hunting in the wild....but the males just look more scary coming at the tourist

 

[Cesar R M]

Fastpass didn't reduce the queue sizes. On most rides the impact of a fastpass is only to lengthen the time you spend in the standby line at any given point from what it would be without fastpass. Fastpass may be a slight problem in the crowding but it is no where near as big a problem as strollers. Just look at any given stroller parking area and the square feet that are consumed. If you eliminated the strollers you would free up a lot of space that would allow the people more room and reduce the feeling of being crowded. Or if they want to allow the strollers then they need to measure the space taken up by the stroller section and factor that into how many people that they allow in the park... Lord help you when you go during a time that they are at maximum capacity.

They could add "Smart" stroller systems.. aka that lift the stroller, and handed you a card.
once you need your thing.. you set up the card in the system.. and the thing gives you back your stroller!