Solar power farm coming to Disney

[GoofGoof]

How much of disney will this power?

The answer is....it depends . Both energy demand and output from the solar array fluctuate throughout the day.

According to the RCID website the peak demand on their electric system is 196 megawatts. This means that the peak hour in the summer the system was consuming 196 MWs of power. Based on what I could find online the winter peak is more like 160 MWs. Keep in mind that these are the absolute highest demand on the system many other days the demand is lower. So the 5 MW solar array is capable of providing 2.5% of the power used by RCID during its peak summer demand of 196 MWs . That percentage could be higher if demand is lower. If, for example, the demand is only 100 MWs at a given time on a cooler day without the A/C cranking around WDW than it can provide 5% of the power to RCID. Of course at night it will provide 0% of the power. It's safe to say this system will provide between 0% and 5% of the power needs of RCID in any given hour. The reason solar works well in a place like FL is that the peak demand times generally are also the sunniest and the hottest times of the day when solar panels are also producing the most output and the price to buy power from the grid is the highest.

If TWDC wanted to set a goal of something like 10% or 20% of power from renewables they would need some more of these panels, but this is a good start. If the state of Florida mandated it they would have to comply. It's nice to see a company willing to start working on the process of getting greener even though they aren't being forced to do it.

 

[Admiral01]

While I'm a big fan of Elon, he's no Tony Stark.

Not really much of an engineer and more than a little socially awkward. Sharp as a tack and a hell of a businessman, though.

Yeah, but Elon Musk is a real person, doing real things, and in many cases putting his money where his mouth is.

Tony Stark is a comic book character.

I had the opportunity to speak to Elon Musk about 3 years back at an aerospace conference. He is a little awkward, but, as you mentioned, totally focused and sharp. SpaceX is literally revolutionizing the space launch business. Tesla has revolutionized the electric car.

I'd take Elon Musk over Tony Stark any day. Unless of course you mean I get to meet Robert Downey Jr. Then its a tough choice...cause I really want to meet an SNL cast member who only lasted one season

 

[Frankie The Beer]

Wow, this seriously turned into an incredibly compelling thread with all the solar power information. Thank you to all the knowledgeable people who approached the subject and explained it so very well.

 

[toolsnspools]

I'm imagining something along the lines of -

Like others have said, up-charge for parking in the shade, and get a great view from the monorail.

 

[Nubs70]

View attachment 94802
I have two words to say here: Solar Monorail.

I have one: Why?

 

[ford91exploder]

I'm just trying to think if true energy independence (electrical) is possible within my lifetime.

Yes - depends on your cost of power though, In New England where the NIMBY'S and BANANA'S have prevented any meaningful power generation projects and shut down two nuclear stations before their licenses expired net cost of electricity in many places is .25-30 cents per KWH, In 5 years probably 30-50 cents per KWH as more stations are going offline and nothing new is being planned.

So with a 10 KW array and say 10KWH of Tesla's new batteries and a natural gas genset for a 500-700 KWH home user they are at 7-10 year breakeven NOW.

I'm considering constructing such a system myself as being from a 'deregulated' state where the only effect was boosting my monthly bill from 50-70 to 150-240 month for the same net usage.

In the old 'regulated' model capacity was forecast and constructed and the utilities were paid a regulated rate of return on their investment.

Now there is no incentive to construct new capacity as old capacity will simply increase the price and profits for the generators, And because now there is insufficent grid capacity we get the MM+ of the power markets 'Smart Grids' which can disconnect your home from the power grid when your power usage is either not high enough priority (the beautiful people need power more than the serfs) or your usage is inconvenient to the grid operator, Just freaking marvelous just more damage Wall St has done to the nations economy we now have 3rd world power availability.

 

[ford91exploder]

It's possible right now. Just not a very good deal economically. You could combine solar, batteries and a whole house backup generator (a commercial grade one that runs on nat gas not the one that runs on gasoline that you keep in your garage) and unplug from the grid completely. The net cost of all of that will be higher right now than staying on the grid.

Depends on cost of power in your location. Some areas it is economical now because of the breakdown of the power generation market due to 'deregulation' which was a codeword for tripling the cost of electricity to residential ratepayers while lining Wall St's pockets.

 

[GoofGoof]

Depends on cost of power in your location. Some areas it is economical now because of the breakdown of the power generation market due to 'deregulation' which was a codeword for tripling the cost of electricity to residential ratepayers while lining Wall St's pockets.

Batteries aren't quite economical anywhere right now. Even in the mess that is New England. Mess in terms of electric supply, not in general...although the golden boy QB Did get caught cheating.

However, solar is absolutely in play in most of New England due to the higher energy prices. Massachusetts and Connecticut are both high growth areas for the rooftop solar industry. If your house qualifies and you have a good credit score it's almost a no brainer.

Edit: the main reason batteries can't compete economically yet is net metering. 43 of 50 states allow some form of net metering including all of New England. No point paying for a Tesla battery when you can use the grid as a virtual battery for free.

 

[ford91exploder]

Batteries aren't quite economical anywhere right now. Even in the mess that is New England. Mess in terms of electric supply, not in general...although the golden boy QB Did get caught cheating.

However, solar is absolutely in play in most of New England due to the higher energy prices. Massachusetts and Connecticut are both high growth areas for the rooftop solar industry. If your house qualifies and you have a good credit score it's almost a no brainer.

Actually Elon Musk has fixed the battery problem with the Powerwall Battery reduces the cost by about 80% vs conventional lead acid systems. 10KWH is 3500 bucks, These of course are a spinoff from the electric car business but you have the same problem to solve high energy density in a economical package.


http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall


http://www.freecleansolar.com/Tesla...rwall-10.htm?gclid=CJzWkPvZ6cUCFYWSfgodwYsAEA

 

[GoofGoof]

Actually Elon Musk has fixed the battery problem with the Powerwall Battery reduces the cost by about 80% vs conventional lead acid systems. 10KWH is 3500 bucks, These of course are a spinoff from the electric car business but you have the same problem to solve high energy density in a economical package.


http://www.teslamotors.com/powerwall


http://www.freecleansolar.com/Tesla...rwall-10.htm?gclid=CJzWkPvZ6cUCFYWSfgodwYsAEA

By the time the gigafactory opens between the increase in technology and the economies of scale it may actually become pretty close to economical. For now the Tesal batteries linked to your home solar system are a lot like the Tesla cars. Early adopters will buy in even if the economics don't quite work because they want to be green or they just like the technology. Although electricity is very much still a commodity, these companies are attempting to make consumers think about and care about where and how the electricity comes from.

 

[ford91exploder]

By the time the gigafactory opens between the increase in technology and the economies of scale it may actually become pretty close to economical. For now the Tesal batteries linked to your home solar system are a lot like the Tesla cars. Early adopters will buy in even if the economics don't quite work because they want to be green or they just like the technology. Although electricity is very much still a commodity, these companies are attempting to make consumers think about and care about where and how the electricity comes from.

Agree the PowerWall batteries don't make sense in MOST of the country but in NE they do driven once again by the extreme cost of power here. The rest of the country they are an early adopter item.

You also have to recall that a lead acid system capable of sustaining a house was on the order of 20K including the 'battery room' with it's venting system

 

[GoofGoof]

Agree the PowerWall batteries don't make sense in MOST of the country but in NE they do driven once again by the extreme cost of power here. The rest of the country they are an early adopter item.

You also have to recall that a lead acid system capable of sustaining a house was on the order of 20K including the 'battery room' with it's venting system

But you have net metering in NE. If you install solar panels that produce twice your power needs during the day you can then dump the excess power back onto the grid. At night when your panels aren't producing anything you pull power down from the grid. The utility will only bill you for the net power pulled from the grid (power used at night less power dumped onto the grid during the day). Because of net metering you can actually use the grid as a "virtual" battery. In other words you are comparing the cost of a battery system to the cost of using the grid for net metering. The retail cost of power doesn't really factor in.

 

[Nubs70]

But you have net metering in NE. If you install solar panels that produce twice your power needs during the day you can then dump the excess power back onto the grid. At night when your panels aren't producing anything you pull power down from the grid. The utility will only bill you for the net power pulled from the grid (power used at night less power dumped onto the grid during the day). Because of net metering you can actually use the grid as a "virtual" battery. In other words you are comparing the cost of a battery system to the cost of using the grid for net metering. The retail cost of power doesn't really factor in.

Retail cost does very much play a factor. You sell power back to the utility at wholesale and purchase power used at retail. It is not as simple as Retail x (kwh used - kWh generated). Another issue in the NE is transmission priority. Expensive wind power from Maine is given priority over cheap hydro power on transmission lines down into the RI/Conn/NYC area. Transmission priority is part of the cause of elevated electricity prices.

 

[Tom]

Good catch. I think though that this is a power substation where the power comes from underground utilities and goes into EPCOT The larger building may be a central air chiller plant for park wide air conditioning. Not sure, but the four large fans has me thinking that. The only other actual power plant on property is directly north of MK. Not counting the small methane powered power plant at the waste treatment facility.

Here's a zoom of the location you are speaking of. on the right is the power substation and on the left is chiller plant.
Unless of course I am wrong. Then in that case, the merry-go-round is on the left and the monkey bars are on the right. LOL

View attachment 94560

You are correct in your identification of those facilities.

No you can't store electricity and unfortunately I think that's something that isn't understood very well. Electricity needs to be used....

The good thing is that the electricity would be used nearly instantly at WDW.

But what if they used giant flux capacitors that could store power? Or is there a copyright issue with Universal on those?

I'm imagining something along the lines of -

View attachment 94822

Like others have said, up-charge for parking in the shade, and get a great view from the monorail.

They would never eliminate parking for this.

 

[Tom]

They recently completed installing the world's largest solar farm at the Indianapolis Airport, a few miles from my house. Here's an aerial photo of the sea of panels:

Here's an article from the Indy Star about the project. The information I've highlighted sheds some serious light on this initiative....

The world's largest airport solar farm is now up and running at Indianapolis International Airport.

With the second phase of an expansion now complete, the solar farm more than doubled in size and boasts 76,000 photovoltaic solar panels, according to a news release. The second phase of the project added 32,100 sun-tracking panels that will produce more than 15.2 million kilowatt hours of electricity annually, the release states.

The 75-acre facility at the airport before the expansion already was the largest airport solar farm in the nation.

"The airport could not be more thrilled to have the largest airport-based solar farm right here in our growing city of Indianapolis," Mario Rodriguez, executive director of the Indianapolis Airport Authority, said in prepared remarks. "The Solar Farm not only enhances our environmentally friendly and energy-efficient terminal campus, but also played a huge role in our recent recognition of being named one of America's greenest airports."

The expanded portion of the solar farm creates enough energy to power more than 1,410 average American homes for a year, the release states.

Indianapolis Power & Light Co. buys the solar farm's power, which costs three to four times the price for which IPL can sell it, officials have said. The utility has subsidized the difference by raising rates to its customers. The increase in electric bills to subsidize the solar farm amounts to several cents a month on the average customer bill. Solar farms also benefit from federal tax credits.

The solar farm has required about a dozen employees to operate. It is owned and operated by a Taiwanese company, General Energy Solutions, which has U.S. offices in California.

"It is an iconic structure that symbolizes how renewable energy in this country is affordable and reliable," Kurt Schneider, vice president of Johnson Melloh Solutions, said in a statement. "JMS is proud of the teamwork displayed by IND and IPL that made this green project such a great success.

"Our hope is that many visitors from other states and countries fly into IND and realize after passing the solar farm that Indiana is both a great place to live and a progressive community for thriving new businesses."

 

[GoofGoof]

Retail cost does very much play a factor. You sell power back to the utility at wholesale and purchase power used at retail. It is not as simple as Retail x (kwh used - kWh generated). Another issue in the NE is transmission priority. Expensive wind power from Maine is given priority over cheap hydro power on transmission lines down into the RI/Conn/NYC area. Transmission priority is part of the cause of elevated electricity prices.

Policy varies by state, but most states with net metering for rooftop solar give you a credit at the retail rate not the wholesale rate. I'm not sure which NE state @ford91exploder is talking about, but MA and CT definitely have net metering at retail rates.

 

[JoeCamel]

They recently completed installing the world's largest solar farm at the Indianapolis Airport, a few miles from my house. Here's an aerial photo of the sea of panels:

View attachment 94858

Here's an article from the Indy Star about the project. The information I've highlighted sheds some serious light on this initiative....

The world's largest airport solar farm is now up and running at Indianapolis International Airport.

With the second phase of an expansion now complete, the solar farm more than doubled in size and boasts 76,000 photovoltaic solar panels, according to a news release. The second phase of the project added 32,100 sun-tracking panels that will produce more than 15.2 million kilowatt hours of electricity annually, the release states.

The 75-acre facility at the airport before the expansion already was the largest airport solar farm in the nation.

"The airport could not be more thrilled to have the largest airport-based solar farm right here in our growing city of Indianapolis," Mario Rodriguez, executive director of the Indianapolis Airport Authority, said in prepared remarks. "The Solar Farm not only enhances our environmentally friendly and energy-efficient terminal campus, but also played a huge role in our recent recognition of being named one of America's greenest airports."

The expanded portion of the solar farm creates enough energy to power more than 1,410 average American homes for a year, the release states.

Indianapolis Power & Light Co. buys the solar farm's power, which costs three to four times the price for which IPL can sell it, officials have said. The utility has subsidized the difference by raising rates to its customers. The increase in electric bills to subsidize the solar farm amounts to several cents a month on the average customer bill. Solar farms also benefit from federal tax credits.

The solar farm has required about a dozen employees to operate. It is owned and operated by a Taiwanese company, General Energy Solutions, which has U.S. offices in California.

"It is an iconic structure that symbolizes how renewable energy in this country is affordable and reliable," Kurt Schneider, vice president of Johnson Melloh Solutions, said in a statement. "JMS is proud of the teamwork displayed by IND and IPL that made this green project such a great success.

"Our hope is that many visitors from other states and countries fly into IND and realize after passing the solar farm that Indiana is both a great place to live and a progressive community for thriving new businesses."

Now imagine if you raised the panels up and parked cars under them? No parking loss and shade for your car?

 

[Tom]

Now imagine if you raised the panels up and parked cars under them? No parking loss and shade for your car?

Right!

Although the FAA might have an issue with the encroachment into the airspace....especially at the end of the two primary runways

 

[PhotoDave219]

You are correct in your identification of those facilities.



But what if they used giant flux capacitors that could store power? Or is there a copyright issue with Universal on those?



They would never eliminate parking for this.

No no.... Lincoln Financial Field & ASU didn't eliminate any parking for their projects.

master Yoda has the point, too much risk of clueless tourists hitting the supports.

Plus as much as I love the idea, Disney only would do it if someone else paid for it. That's their business model.

 

[ford91exploder]

But you have net metering in NE. If you install solar panels that produce twice your power needs during the day you can then dump the excess power back onto the grid. At night when your panels aren't producing anything you pull power down from the grid. The utility will only bill you for the net power pulled from the grid (power used at night less power dumped onto the grid during the day). Because of net metering you can actually use the grid as a "virtual" battery. In other words you are comparing the cost of a battery system to the cost of using the grid for net metering. The retail cost of power doesn't really factor in.

@Nubs70 has it right here, The net metering agreements in my state are heavily biased against the solar interconnect. Basically they pay you the LOWEST retail rate and in exchange charge you the highest retail rate, So battery systems are fairly popular in the solar community at least in my state (which has a legacy of corrupt practices in power sales and regulation) in many instances its cheaper to fire up a natural gas powered home generator than buy from the 'grid'.

So in many of the larger solar systems you have panels/batts/genset combos.