Soarin' image quality

[NelsonRD]

Ceiling tiles and branches dropping off are rarely due to regular monitoring....

Not more money, just a small tidbit of the immense profits TWDC crows about on a quarterly basis....

I agree. The previous post where I mentioned problems with the Magic Kingdom was only partly humorous. However, with that said, there are just some things that are going to happen, no matter how much money you throw at it. That is why I am questioning Martins reference to HoP and your reference to the Tree of Life.

 

[wm49rs]

I agree. The previous post where I mentioned problems with the Magic Kingdom was only partly humorous. However, with that said, there are just some things that are going to happen, no matter how much money you throw at it. That is why I am questioning Martins reference to HoP and your reference to the Tree of Life.

Proper maintenance can often keep things from simply "happening"....

 

[NelsonRD]

Proper maintenance can often keep things from simply "happening"....

I only agree with that statement half the time. Despite anybody's best intentions, things will still happen. Especially unpredictable events, such as the Tree of Life. We do not live in a perfect world.

So I guess we are both correct. Things will happen, dust affect the soarin' experience given the way it is currently setup, but I agree with you in the way in which it was addressed could use improvement.

They are addressing it now however, but that just brings us back to the very first post of mine on this thread that got this going.

 

[NormC]

15/70mm film.

 

[flynnibus]

I wish I could distort the space time continum like NelsonRD so that years from now would be 'now'... and where guests of today and months from now could see a film that won't be shown till probably 2017

 

[NelsonRD]

I wish I could distort the space time continum like NelsonRD so that years from now would be 'now'... and where guests of today and months from now could see a film that won't be shown till probably 2017

I am just simply trying to put a realistic spin on this thread. I agree it is long overdue, but it takes time from the moment a project is green lit, until completed. I am excited to see the changes, even if unfortunately it does not happen this year.

So, when will then be now? Soon.....

 

[flynnibus]

I am just simply trying to put a realistic spin on this thread. I agree it is long overdue, but it takes time from the moment a project is green lit, until completed..

That is why you do PLAN and get things in motion BEFORE they become critical... but I wouldn't expect your mind to think that way. Given your previous posts on sound maintanence practices and Disney's show standards.

Meanwhile.. I expect you must run out of gas and be stranded on the highway a few times... given this mentality.

 

[NelsonRD]

That is why you do PLAN and get things in motion BEFORE they become critical... but I wouldn't expect your mind to think that way. Given your previous posts on sound maintanence practices and Disney's show standards.

Meanwhile.. I expect you must run out of gas and be stranded on the highway a few times... given this mentality.

- Yeah, its actually amazing I make it though the day.

Did you read any of my posts? I must have said it a dozen times that the refurb is long overdue, the condition is unacceptable. But its very easy to sit on your couch and complain how much of a better job you would do.

You just can't see past the fact that it won't be ready tomorrow. So what would you do? Shut it down today for a month, during the busiest time of the year, to rebuild the projection room? Then shut it down again for a few months a year later to install new projection system?

 

[flynnibus]

Did you read any of my posts? I must have said it a dozen times that the refurb is long overdue, the condition is unacceptable. But its very easy to sit on your couch and complain how much of a better job you would do.

You just can't see past the fact that it won't be ready tomorrow. So what would you do? Shut it down today for a month, during the busiest time of the year, to rebuild the projection room? Then shut it down again for a few months a year later to install new projection system?

You remind me of the scenario where a significant other that says "I know I cheated, but I am not going to do it anymore... I love you and want to be with you" and then gets busted over and over.. and you're the person right there enabling them because you focus on what they say, vs what they do.

It has nothing to do with it being tomorrow or next month or six months. Just because they are finally doing something doesn't mean they've changed, or have fixed anything, or even seen the err of their way. It simply means "we've riden this horse into the ground and its dead, so time to get a new horse".

It's the same reason they had HISTA running next door well beyond it's usefulness and did nothing about it.

You're preaching this future upgrade is them emerging from their shell.. and fixing everything.. and keep using the word 'now'. When reality is its something that is going to be probably 16-24m away at best (now? You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means) and is an attraction reboot because freakin 15 years later they face the fact their movie about california doesn't fit everywhere.

We are talking about Disney's attention on show standards and upkeep. Running attractions into the ground and then doing a refurb after they are trashed is NOT upkeep. It's optimizing return.

So the fact Disney is replacing an attraction some months if not years into the future is NO reason to not maintain it for the guests now and until that time. Arguing otherwise is simply following the bone they tossed you and continuing to ignore that show standards are not just about future guests, but EVERY guest.

You do PREVENTATIVE work... you engage plans BEFORE stuff fails or needs replacement... all so you can ensure the highest level of continuity of service for your guests. Not make excuses like "well it will take 2 weeks to get the part" - that's why you buy SPARES so you don't have that downtime. But your argument is 'well they didn't know they'd need it..."

 

[NelsonRD]

You remind me of the scenario where a significant other that says "I know I cheated, but I am not going to do it anymore... I love you and want to be with you" and then gets busted over and over.. and you're the person right there enabling them because you focus on what they say, vs what they do.

It has nothing to do with it being tomorrow or next month or six months. Just because they are finally doing something doesn't mean they've changed, or have fixed anything, or even seen the err of their way. It simply means "we've riden this horse into the ground and its dead, so time to get a new horse".

It's the same reason they had HISTA running next door well beyond it's usefulness and did nothing about it.

You're preaching this future upgrade is them emerging from their shell.. and fixing everything.. and keep using the word 'now'. When reality is its something that is going to be probably 16-24m away at best (now? You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means) and is an attraction reboot because freakin 15 years later they face the fact their movie about california doesn't fit everywhere.

We are talking about Disney's attention on show standards and upkeep. Running attractions into the ground and then doing a refurb after they are trashed is NOT upkeep. It's optimizing return.

So the fact Disney is replacing an attraction some months if not years into the future is NO reason to not maintain it for the guests now and until that time. Arguing otherwise is simply following the bone they tossed you and continuing to ignore that show standards are not just about future guests, but EVERY guest.

You do PREVENTATIVE work... you engage plans BEFORE stuff fails or needs replacement... all so you can ensure the highest level of continuity of service for your guests. Not make excuses like "well it will take 2 weeks to get the part" - that's why you buy SPARES so you don't have that downtime. But your argument is 'well they didn't know they'd need it..."

Here is my guess on why it is taking too long:

Unfortunately, I do not know how Disney manages its finance. However, if it is like large corporations I have worked with in the past, budget planning is not done every day. Most of the time, it happens once a year. Then the funds are allocated, obligated, and eventually expended each quarter. It could take a year just get get Soarin' to be green lit for an upgrade. Then it can be several months after that for the cradle to grave process. What I assume is that this attraction has been addressed, possibly already years ago.

Disney does not operate like your household budget, when you need Milk, you go buy milk. There are different colors of money designed for certain things, that can only be spent certain times of the year. Now add a board and CEO that all have different visions, and it is amazing anything gets done at all. But, that is the process, that is the process you are frustrated with.

The attraction should have been addressed sooner. But that does not mean they are sitting back looking at what attractions can be 'run into the ground' before addressing.

As a guest, I agree 100% with you that it should not have taken this long. As a guest I get annoyed when I get on the Stink Cups, I mean Tea Cups because there is no excuse for the ride to be so dirty. But, with that said, I understand some of the challenges with making everything perfect.

You want somebody to knock on a door and have somebody cut a check to fix it. It just does not work that way. It is the old saying on how to kill innovation is to add accountants. Maybe in the future more funding will be allocated to the parks under different management. I said it before, I place most of the blame on the Board of Directors.

So, in the meantime, right or wrong, Soarin' is going to suffer mainly because of its design, not maintenance. I just can't paint a car perfect not being in a paint booth.

I joined this board to suggest some ideas I know may not be popular, but hopefully offer a different look at things sometimes. And I think it beats 100 replies for people that say, me too! me too!

 

[flynnibus]

NelsonRD - your whole premise ignores Disney has managed to do this in the past. And self-imposed limits like when you plan, how frequently, and how you ADAPT - are exactly that.. self-imposed limits.

"The attraction should have been addressed sooner. But that does not mean they are sitting back looking at what attractions can be 'run into the ground' before addressing."

How many times are you going to get cheated on before you open your eyes? How many examples of the same behavior OVER and OVER do you need held in front of your face before you admit they exist?

You are right... most big businesses aren't agile... because they can't get out of their own way. But you are imposing their realities on Disney.. vs recognizing Disney did things different from the start, and did so for 30+ years before they lost their way.

 

[marni1971]

Help me understand this post a little better. Are you suggesting 'a chunk' of HoP something needed some kind of maintenance to keep it safe, and a conscience decision was made to leave it to be dangerous?

Last spring some shingles were blown off my roof with 15 years of life left, so that wasn't due to a lack of maintenance.

I have talked to many CEO's and high level managers in my career, and I have never met one that had the 'ah screw it' attitude, 'as long as im getting paid!'. So, I have a hard time believing Disney would not address something that was a risk to 'save a buck'.

I'm not suggesting that.

I'm suggesting a piece of building wasn't maintained. And as such failed.

Well, not suggesting. Saying.

 

[wm49rs]

I'm not suggesting that.

I'm suggesting a piece of building wasn't maintained. And as such failed.

Well, not suggesting. Saying.

And had plenty of time to "plan" to fix it, along with numerous other examples....

 

[NelsonRD]

NelsonRD - your whole premise ignores Disney has managed to do this in the past. And self-imposed limits like when you plan, how frequently, and how you ADAPT - are exactly that.. self-imposed limits.

"The attraction should have been addressed sooner. But that does not mean they are sitting back looking at what attractions can be 'run into the ground' before addressing."

How many times are you going to get cheated on before you open your eyes? How many examples of the same behavior OVER and OVER do you need held in front of your face before you admit they exist?

You are right... most big businesses aren't agile... because they can't get out of their own way. But you are imposing their realities on Disney.. vs recognizing Disney did things different from the start, and did so for 30+ years before they lost their way.

I think disney is improving. I visit the world a few times a year, every year, since I was a kid. I believe the darkest years I observed were around 2006. That year, or years, they had an large influx of younger high school CMs. These 'kids' were terrible, uninvolved, and rude. My cable guy told me they experimented with a program to employ them, and I can tell you, it didn't work. I also have a picture somewhere of trash piled up on the track at the Epcot monorail station, it seemed to get bad there for a while.

But, alas, I have hope. Unfortunately, I think we will not see significant changes we want until the Board of Directors changes. Looking around it is very easy to see why we have Magic Bands, Selfie Parades, and Starbucks.

 

[copcarguyp71]

You're preaching this future upgrade is them emerging from their shell.. and fixing everything.. and keep using the word 'now'. When reality is its something that is going to be probably 16-24m away at best (now? You keep using that word... I do not think it means what you think it means)

 

[lazyboy97o]

Help me understand this post a little better. Are you suggesting 'a chunk' of HoP something needed some kind of maintenance to keep it safe, and a conscience decision was made to leave it to be dangerous?

Last spring some shingles were blown off my roof with 15 years of life left, so that wasn't due to a lack of maintenance.

I have talked to many CEO's and high level managers in my career, and I have never met one that had the 'ah screw it' attitude, 'as long as im getting paid!'. So, I have a hard time believing Disney would not address something that was a risk to 'save a buck'.

Maybe you should do some research on the Columbia and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland.

 

[NelsonRD]

Maybe you should do some research on the Columbia and Big Thunder Mountain Railroad at Disneyland.

There are 2 things that needs to be differentiated. Lack of maintenance that causes bad show, ie, the dirty tea cups. There is no argument for that.

The second however has to do with accidents, as Martin started with the HoP remark. There have been many accidents and mishaps at the Disney parks. You know, some even happened in the 80s! However, this thread is going to fault Disney for maintenance from dust on the film at soarin' to the monorail accident.

I am trying to be objective, to identify if poor maintenance is to blame. I am sure in some cases it is, but others I am sure are just accidents.

Your argument here is saying that if you even been in an automobile accident, then, if you properly maintained your car, it wouldn't have happened. Maybe, maybe not. I need more facts to determine that. Same with the bashing of Disney maintenance. It is this knee jerk reaction to immediately fault Disney I find foolish.

I have not yet heard on this thread that Disney was supposed to do something, and they choose not to, and as a direct result of that action caused something to fail. And don't tell me that Disney has more money than god so nothing should every break. If you believe that, then you are truly being transported to a 'magical land' every time you step on Disney property.

 

[flynnibus]

I have not yet heard on this thread that Disney was supposed to do something, and they choose not to, and as a direct result of that action caused something to fail

You'll never hear it when your head is in the sand. The Big Thunder Mountain example highlighted was exactly due to Disney failing to do something.. causing it to fail.. and costing someone their life. Then there are many other examples like Space Mountain you've just chosen to ignore. Then we have the other bucket of lack of preventative action leads to preventable failures... but apparently you don't even comprehend that most basic theory of operation.

This will be my last post directed at you because its no longer about wanting to understand or have open discussions with competent individuals.

 

[NelsonRD]

You'll never hear it when your head is in the sand. The Big Thunder Mountain example highlighted was exactly due to Disney failing to do something.. causing it to fail.. and costing someone their life. Then there are many other examples like Space Mountain you've just chosen to ignore. Then we have the other bucket of lack of preventative action leads to preventable failures... but apparently you don't even comprehend that most basic theory of operation.

This will be my last post directed at you because its no longer about wanting to understand or have open discussions with competent individuals.

flynnibus, relax. I don't know how many times I said I agree with you on this thread, you just overlook that.

The Thunder Mountain reference was improper maintenance, not lack of, which is another issue of training altogether.

I have seen Disney put cost in front of show, but I find it hard to believe a company as visible as Disney would put cost ahead of safety. And if they have, then I will put my foot in my mouth for my ignorance.

 

[lazyboy97o]

There are 2 things that needs to be differentiated. Lack of maintenance that causes bad show, ie, the dirty tea cups. There is no argument for that.

The second however has to do with accidents, as Martin started with the HoP remark. There have been many accidents and mishaps at the Disney parks. You know, some even happened in the 80s! However, this thread is going to fault Disney for maintenance from dust on the film at soarin' to the monorail accident.

I am trying to be objective, to identify if poor maintenance is to blame. I am sure in some cases it is, but others I am sure are just accidents.

Your argument here is saying that if you even been in an automobile accident, then, if you properly maintained your car, it wouldn't have happened. Maybe, maybe not. I need more facts to determine that. Same with the bashing of Disney maintenance. It is this knee jerk reaction to immediately fault Disney I find foolish.

I have not yet heard on this thread that Disney was supposed to do something, and they choose not to, and as a direct result of that action caused something to fail. And don't tell me that Disney has more money than god so nothing should every break. If you believe that, then you are truly being transported to a 'magical land' every time you step on Disney property.

flynnibus, relax. I don't know how many times I said I agree with you on this thread, you just overlook that.

The Thunder Mountain reference was improper maintenance, not lack of, which is another issue of training altogether.

I have seen Disney put cost in front of show, but I find it hard to believe a company as visible as Disney would put cost ahead of safety. And if they have, then I will put my foot in my mouth for my ignorance.

"We need to ride these rides to failure" is not improper maintenance.