So why weren't there many strollers back in the day?

[NormC]

I know this isn't the popular opinion around here, especially in today's "everything must be PC" world that we live in... But in many cases, shock collars can be the most effective method for child control and safety. They take up far less space than strollers, thus relieving the parks and other guests of the cluttered-up walkways which have been such a hindrance in recent years. Just a simple strap goes around the neck, one parent is all that's required to operate the small remote control, and presto! Better behavior and less obstructed sidewalks.

For those claiming such methods are deemed "inappropriate" or "inhumane", consider that some of the most affordable collars contain electrodes with as low as 400 volts, which are perfectly suitable for the smallest of offspring. You can adjust to higher voltage levels for children as they age, or for traveling with elderly family members who can sometimes become ornery.

As a child, for my first visit to WDW back in the early 80's, I used anywhere from a 1,500 to a 3,000 voltage collar depending on my attitude and park shenanigans. Other guests never became aware of what was actually going on, as many simply assumed I was a normal kid like any other, who'd just have sudden break-dancing episodes for a few seconds periodically.

Disney could even capitalize on this method of child correction by selling themed shock collars at various gift shops throughout the parks. Have different characters and whatnot on the collars / parental remotes for guests to collect over the years.

Forgot to mention: From past experience, I would strongly advise against using these collars AT ALL when the recipient(s) of the shock is dining or partaking in any sort of beverage. It creates quite the mess.

Magic Band 3.0

 

[MattFrees71]

Back then life was different. For one thing we didn't bring kids to theme parks until they were old enough to walk, use the bathroom, eat regular food and communicate with words. It was almost never even considered. My wife and I set an age of at least 6 years old. Mine were 6 and 9 when we went. They had strollers for rent back then, but, as I say the times were different and my kids would have been insulted if we had suggested a stroller. They did not consider themselves babies. There weren't any scooters because they basically hadn't been invented yet. Can't use what doesn't exist and there probably were fewer "obese" people because we didn't ride in strollers until we were teens. And without the scooter they just couldn't negotiate the parks as well. It was then, as it is now, a hell of a lot of walking. People with real problems in mobility simply stayed home with a wonderfully full life of starring at four walls. They only consolation that any of them had was that someday, those that felt superior to those "fatty's" will be there as well. If not overweight then some other thing, arthritis, injuries, whatever will make them feel shamed when trying to enjoy life while others looked at them, snarl and uttered words like fat and lazy.

Same here- even on my first trip at 5, I would have rather been more "grown up" over the comfort of a stroller. Although that trip was at Disneyland Paris, where as pointed out earlier in this thread, European culture doesn't extend "toddler amenities" for kids very long. I and my family probably would have stuck out more if we used a stroller there. I think here in America, its use is more prevalent and has increased exponentially simply because "everyone else is doing it."

 

[SirWillow]

Interesting discussion. Kind of going back to the OP, I think there's a number of reasons strollers are more noticeable.

1. Most obvious, the parks are much more crowded than they were in the 70's and 80's, meaning more strollers just based on quantity and less room to maneuver them.

2. Similar- strollers are often bigger than they were back in the 70's and 80's, where most of the ones I remember were the "umbrella" strollers that were small, collapsed easily, and had not storage areas on them. They weren't the portable storage lockers like so many use them for today (and yes, I'm guilty of it when my kids were little). There weren't the jogging, off road, giant tired 2 kid strollers like you see so often now. These things today are like Hummers compared to the strollers of old.

3. As mentioned, kids in the parks tended to be older back then. Parents weren't as likely to take babies, toddlers, and very young children. I know my family made us wait until my little sister was "old enough to enjoy and remember it"- well past stroller age at the time. Whereas today you'll see lots of babies, and it's not unusual to see them even a few weeks old! That's something that rarely happened back in the 70s and 80's.

4. this I could be wrong on, but I don't remember using strollers as much once a child was past toddlerhood. My sister didn't get one once she reached about 4 years old, and I don't think we were that unusual. Today you'll see them used for 8 year olds, and I'll admit we still had one around until my youngest was about 6. Yeah, maybe that's a comment on the general fitness of our society today, but I don't really want to go into that. That's a whole different topic.

 

[Janir]

I seem to remember that as well. They would fold up nice and flat and took up very little space.
Nowadays you have these rolling monstrosities that are Jeep-branded and have ATV wheels and an integrated life-support system.
And cup holders. I kid you not they have strollers with cup holders.

Because god forbid you or your spawn should have to go a while without ingesting something.

Hey, those cupholders were the reason back in 2015-2016 Disney refillable resort cups stopped coming with handles on them, so they fit stroller cup holders.
Until people complained and they started making with handles again. ;-)

 

[Club Cooloholic]

I'm going to say some of the same people who are somehow unable to go as far as from the living room to the bathroom without their damn backpack.

The backpack thing is getting crazy. I saw a bunch of kids skiing with them on, I think because they thought it looked cool. I get it if you are planning on doing some backcountry skiing, but when its a slope in the poconos or catskills and there are only 15 trails, I think it is unnecessary lol.

 

[Club Cooloholic]

There are 4 parks. Not the 1 or 2 we had through the late 80s at the vacation kingdom of the world, when it was a slower, full resort experience.

4 parks, 2 water parks, 2 mini golf courses, and Disney Springs. All at record-high rates with heavily scheduled dining and fastpasses, and most Americans, at least, with our relatively limited time off trying to cram as much as possible into as little time as possible.

That's a lot for any child.

The fastpass for sure does not help. When you are on a timer getting from one end of the park to the other, its just easier with that stroller sometimes.

 

[disneyfireman]

The backpack thing is getting crazy. I saw a bunch of kids skiing with them on, I think because they thought it looked cool. I get it if you are planning on doing some backcountry skiing, but when its a slope in the poconos or catskills and there are only 15 trails, I think it is unnecessary lol.

Agreed. It’s a day in Disney world. Why does so many people pack so much in a backpack. We just wear shorts and use pockets for what we need. It’s crazy. Folks act like they are going on a 2 week excursion.

 

[Incomudro]

Interesting discussion. Kind of going back to the OP, I think there's a number of reasons strollers are more noticeable.

1. Most obvious, the parks are much more crowded than they were in the 70's and 80's, meaning more strollers just based on quantity and less room to maneuver them.

2. Similar- strollers are often bigger than they were back in the 70's and 80's, where most of the ones I remember were the "umbrella" strollers that were small, collapsed easily, and had not storage areas on them. They weren't the portable storage lockers like so many use them for today (and yes, I'm guilty of it when my kids were little). There weren't the jogging, off road, giant tired 2 kid strollers like you see so often now. These things today are like Hummers compared to the strollers of old.

3. As mentioned, kids in the parks tended to be older back then. Parents weren't as likely to take babies, toddlers, and very young children. I know my family made us wait until my little sister was "old enough to enjoy and remember it"- well past stroller age at the time. Whereas today you'll see lots of babies, and it's not unusual to see them even a few weeks old! That's something that rarely happened back in the 70s and 80's.

4. this I could be wrong on, but I don't remember using strollers as much once a child was past toddlerhood. My sister didn't get one once she reached about 4 years old, and I don't think we were that unusual. Today you'll see them used for 8 year olds, and I'll admit we still had one around until my youngest was about 6. Yeah, maybe that's a comment on the general fitness of our society today, but I don't really want to go into that. That's a whole different topic.

^^ This is the correct post to the entire thread. ^^
Most "things" are the result of multiple things.

 

[Chi84]

Mobility aids, including strollers, are inherently good but can be misused or over-used. The problem is that people have this maddening habit of deciding for themselves when to use them instead of relying on my superior judgment.

People often behave differently on a Disney vacation than they would otherwise. If I see an older child in a stroller I assume it’s because the family freaked out about the expense and the vast distances that need to be covered - not that they are also pushing the child around the local mall, setting him up for a lifetime of obesity. Unless they are directly affecting me in some way, I try not to judge.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

WDW back in the day, fewer children of stroller age. 8 to 14 year olds were much more prevalent than 1 to 7 year olds.

Well #1, Back in the day, is kind of meaningless, because it is too vague. It could be any time from 1971 to 2018, right?
mostly though, it has much to do with marketing, product development, and the evolution of WDW.

1. In the 1970's say, people just didn't use/buy devices as much as they do now. They didn't use seatbelts, car seats, or strollers as much as they do now. In large part, today's devices just didn't exist. Strollers in the 1970's were mostly clunky things, like what we'd call a 'pram' today, and those didn't fold. Basic umbrella strollers also existed, but they didn't have the same kind of wheels as today's strollers. Today's disposable diapers also didn't exist in the 1970's. Disposable diapers of the 1970's were nothing like today's disposable diapers. They were primitive.

2. WDW was also a much smaller place, depending on what each person means by "back in the day":
It was just MK prior to October of 1982
just MK and Epcot prior to May 1989
Just MK, Epcot, and MGM prior to Earth Day 1998

3. MK had few attractions in the 1970's, and shorter hours. It didn't take nearly as long to go on all the attractions. In October of 1971, it was only open from 10am-6pm.

4. MK had fewer total children, sure, but that's largely because WDW had far fewer total visitors. It is probably also true that people didn't take infants out as much as they do today, but well, it was a different prospect in the 1970s. For one thing, most people tended to use CLOTH diapers that have to be WASHED. Imagine having to carry soiled diapers around WDW in the heat all day. Many other baby items have also evolved since the 1970's, making it much easier to travel with children.

[In 1970: American babies used 350,000 tons of disposable diapers, 1.4% of municipal waste. PLUS they were made of bulky cotton pulp- the more absorbent polymers didn't come along until the 1980's. The polymers reduce diaper bulk by 50%
In 1990 diapers = 1.65% of municipal waste. In 2000, diapers = 2% of municipal waste.]


So the answer is multi-faceted.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

I saw more kids walking in Europe and around DLP then I ever have in America.

Yes, but America has far fewer 1st -18th century buildings than Europe. Strollers aren't practical on cobblestones.

In the USA, we would also use baby carriers more often if we had to deal with so many cobblestones and staircases.

Surely you also noticed all the stairs in Europe.

 

[ABQ]

Strollers are one thing, it's ill prepared adults that don't know how to collapse them and attempt to board buses and the launch boats with them fully loaded that drive me bonkers.
However, what's the deal with people bringing these things into parks now?

How and why did this become an acceptable thing to do?

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

bikes are the next preferred option, if possible. Look at Amsterdam; perhaps an extreme example but even in Germany - bikes are everywhere.

Yes, but so are bike paths, AND drivers who expect to share the road with bikes.

Let us also not forget, the cost of gasoline and tolls is at least double what it is in the USA. France is also full of nasty electronic speed cameras these days (Plus fines are not very popular).

Europe also has very different public transportation options. In theory, we could also have high speed rail in the USA, but we have not made the same kind of transportation choices as Europe.

 

[LaughingGravy]

.... And any kid of any age with earbuds on in WDW or outside of WDW at a family meal deserves a swift kick in the rear.

We even go so far (gasp) with no cell phones at family meals as a general rule. But in the parks we would make an exception for securing fastpasses only. We can stare at little screens lots of other places.

Oh, and wagons are NOT allowed in DL in California. I didn't know they were allowed in FL. Can anyone chime in on that?

 

[jaklgreen]

I had my DS at WDW at 14 months the day before he walked for the first time. Yes we had a stroller cause he could not walk the distance. My DD made her first trip 4 years later at 2 months old. We had a tradition of WDW vactions by then and at 2 months she could not walk. Stroller. This was between 1988-1992. Smaller Disney Strollers, $5 rentals, $1 back when returned. Bringing strollers on transportation only esculated with the sharp increase and profits of renting at the Parks. Did it, saw it. Parents in general have opted for the large athletic strollers, no judgement as a family choice. They obviously won't buy a different strollers for Disney. As seeing how it worked prior to the ridiculous price increase for strollers Disney alone is responsible for the Tanks that now invade the parks. A fare price would have avoided what we see now. I experienced the opposite renting strollers from Disney. Virtually nobody had strollers on Disney transportation when my kids were small decades ago. There were hordes of strollers but they took less space, dramatically. No wider than we were and not nearly as long. Disney could if they chose to enforce the width and length of strollers allowed. They do not. What they allow does not accommodate the seating on buses. A management decision. Now allowing the Keen Wagon Strollers is more mind boggling. Set and enforce perimeters and the guest must follow. Set a price where Disney doesn't pay for the strollers in 3 days outright and the guests will rent like we did in yesteryear. Until then guests will bring what they own.

So when my kids were young, we rented a stroller at WDW for a couple of trips. A few years later they raised the prices dramatically. I talked to several cast members about it. They all said that people were putting kids that were way too heavy into the strollers. People started renting a double stroller and having their 7,8,9 year old in them and breaking the wheels. They got fed up with always fixing them so they decided to raise the prices in hope that people would only get them when absolutely necessary, for little ones. Of course, none of this is official Disney. This just punished the people with little kids unfortunately. I think that they should have just been more proactive in making sure that people did not go over the weight limit. Heck, we even saw adults "resting" in them.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Well #1, Back in the day, is kind of meaningless, because it is too vague. It could be any time from 1971 to 2018, right?
mostly though, it has much to do with marketing, product development, and the evolution of WDW.

1. In the 1970's say, people just didn't use/buy devices as much as they do now. They didn't use seatbelts, car seats, or strollers as much as they do now. In large part, today's devices just didn't exist. Strollers in the 1970's were mostly clunky things, like what we'd call a 'pram' today, and those didn't fold. Basic umbrella strollers also existed, but they didn't have the same kind of wheels as today's strollers. Today's disposable diapers also didn't exist in the 1970's. Disposable diapers of the 1970's were nothing like today's disposable diapers. They were primitive.

2. WDW was also a much smaller place, depending on what each person means by "back in the day":
It was just MK prior to October of 1982
just MK and Epcot prior to May 1989
Just MK, Epcot, and MGM prior to Earth Day 1998

3. MK had few attractions in the 1970's, and shorter hours. It didn't take nearly as long to go on all the attractions. In October of 1971, it was only open from 10am-6pm.

4. MK had fewer total children, sure, but that's largely because WDW had far fewer total visitors. It is probably also true that people didn't take infants out as much as they do today, but well, it was a different prospect in the 1970s. For one thing, most people tended to use CLOTH diapers that have to be WASHED. Imagine having to carry soiled diapers around WDW in the heat all day. Many other baby items have also evolved since the 1970's, making it much easier to travel with children.

[In 1970: American babies used 350,000 tons of disposable diapers, 1.4% of municipal waste. PLUS they were made of bulky cotton pulp- the more absorbent polymers didn't come along until the 1980's. The polymers reduce diaper bulk by 50%
In 1990 diapers = 1.65% of municipal waste. In 2000, diapers = 2% of municipal waste.]


So the answer is multi-faceted.

I'm having a hard time understanding that or what one thing has to to with the other. Socially there was a very strong reason why there were fewer strollers, it was because once our children were able to walk, it was assumed that they were going to use those legs for the reason they exist. They walk with us. It was a right of passage. They kept up with the "grown ups" and fit in with adult activities. I ask my daughters recently.. they are both in their 40's now. If they would have wanted to be in a stroller. Both of them immediately responded with NO! We weren't babies!

1. My daughters were born in 1974 and 1976. Both had disposable diapers, but, that doesn't have anything to do with anything about strollers. The fact is with or without cloth diapers they still had to be changed frequently. The biggest problem was disposal. That was one of the reasons why people didn't bring infants. A big one yes, but, there were other reasons. One of which that small children were much less concerned about when they decided to create a fuss. They had to be held or carted in a stroller. They had to be fed at differing intervals and they were frankly A LOT OF WORK. Something that my generation did not consider part of a fun relaxing experience. We did use seat belts, you are going back beyond the very existence of WDW. Disneyland, perhaps in the beginning. The only reason why I waited until my kids were older was because of the above, but, mostly because I wanted them to share the family experience in the same definable way that we did. I wanted to be able to experience the attractions as a family. Not one sitting out with a small child while the other did the attraction. Most of them I wanted them to remember it clearly and with joy. That was for later reflection.

2. WDW was still around 42 sq. miles, MK was exactly the same size that it is today. The amount of walking was still the same. 3 or 4 days of walking was still the same results and accumulation of fatigue. Added Parks just changed the scenery. The amount of walking total was about the same.

3. I can't speak for the 70's. I first went in 1983 or what the park hours were, but, if they had fireworks they didn't shut down at 6pm. Fireworks are hard to see in the daylight. The number of attractions were relevant only if your thought that the crowd was smaller. Then the ones you did get to go to took a lot longer due to the amount of people vs. the fewer things to do. I know in 1983 I would go for the evening and there was a night time parade and fireworks.

4. I went shortly after Epcot opened, (Feb. 1983) but, I have seen no change in the numbers of people that are in the park since I started going. They were very busy back then, even during the actual down seasons. We already covered the diaper situation in (#1). or #2, possibly in this case. Hee Hee! Way more people spread over 3 other parks and other things like huge water parks and areas to explore. Each individual park attendance was hard to notice on the ground. I have gone at around the same time of the year about every year since I first went there in late February as a rule, but, I even have gone at other times. January, February March, April, September and November and noticed no major difference in the total in any single park over all of those.

I'm thinking that the amount of landfill impact may very well be right on, but, it doesn't explain why there were fewer strollers in WDW. Disposable diapers may have increased landfill problem, but, they eliminated the ammonia wafting diaper pails and ensuing parental nausea. Good trade off in my mind.

 

[WDWFan2018]

But like a lot in life now...kids are babied so much its nauseating. Oh, and if they misbehave? Lets not discipline them, lets medicate them.

There is medication for misbehaving children? Where does one find this "miracle drug"?

 

[OneofThree]

There is medication for misbehaving children? Where does one find this "miracle drug"?

More reading/listening/learning, less opining.

From:

Post by Former NIMH Director Thomas Insel: Are Children Overmedicated?
By Thomas Insel on June 6, 2014

A recent symposium at the Carter Center featured a report by the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) that as many as 10,000 toddlers may be receiving psychostimulant medication, like methylphenidate (Ritalin).1 The media reports of this, like many past reports, decried the overmedication of children. The numbers are notable.

The latest estimate from the National Center for Health Statistics reports that 7.5 percent of U.S. children between ages 6 and 17 were taking medication for “emotional or behavioral difficulties” in 2011-2012.2 The CDC reports a five-fold increase in the number of children under 18 on psychostimulants from 1988-1994 to 2007–2010, with the most recent rate of 4.2 percent.3 The same report estimates that 1.3 percent of children are on antidepressants. The rate of antipsychotic prescriptions for children has increased six-fold over this same period, according to a study of office visits within the National Ambulatory Medical Care Survey.4 In children under age 5, psychotropic prescription rates peaked at 1.45 percent in 2002-2005 and declined to 1.00 percent from 2006-2009.5

Taken together, what do these numbers mean? A common interpretation: children with behavioral or emotional problems are being overmedicated by psychiatrists too busy to provide therapy, at the request of parents too busy to provide a healthy home environment.


https://www.nimh.nih.gov/about/directors/thomas-insel/blog/2014/are-children-overmedicated.shtml

 

[OneofThree]

I'm having a hard time understanding that or what one thing has to to with the other. Socially there was a very strong reason why there were fewer strollers, it was because once our children were able to walk, it was assumed that they were going to use those legs for the reason they exist. They walk with us. It was a right of passage. They kept up with the "grown ups" and fit in with adult activities. I ask my daughters recently.. they are both in their 40's now. If they would have wanted to be in a stroller. Both of them immediately responded with NO! We weren't babies!

1. My daughters were born in 1974 and 1976. Both had disposable diapers, but, that doesn't have anything to do with anything about strollers. The fact is with or without cloth diapers they still had to be changed frequently. The biggest problem was disposal. That was one of the reasons why people didn't bring infants. A big one yes, but, there were other reasons. One of which that small children were much less concerned about when they decided to create a fuss. They had to be held or carted in a stroller. They had to be fed at differing intervals and they were frankly A LOT OF WORK. Something that my generation did not consider part of a fun relaxing experience. We did use seat belts, you are going back beyond the very existence of WDW. Disneyland, perhaps in the beginning. The only reason why I waited until my kids were older was because of the above, but, mostly because I wanted them to share the family experience in the same definable way that we did. I wanted to be able to experience the attractions as a family. Not one sitting out with a small child while the other did the attraction. Most of them I wanted them to remember it clearly and with joy. That was for later reflection.

2. WDW was still around 42 sq. miles, MK was exactly the same size that it is today. The amount of walking was still the same. 3 or 4 days of walking was still the same results and accumulation of fatigue. Added Parks just changed the scenery. The amount of walking total was about the same.

3. I can't speak for the 70's. I first went in 1983 or what the park hours were, but, if they had fireworks they didn't shut down at 6pm. Fireworks are hard to see in the daylight. The number of attractions were relevant only if your thought that the crowd was smaller. Then the ones you did get to go to took a lot longer due to the amount of people vs. the fewer things to do. I know in 1983 I would go for the evening and there was a night time parade and fireworks.

4. I went shortly after Epcot opened, (Feb. 1983) but, I have seen no change in the numbers of people that are in the park since I started going. They were very busy back then, even during the actual down seasons. We already covered the diaper situation in (#1). or #2, possibly in this case. Hee Hee! Way more people spread over 3 other parks and other things like huge water parks and areas to explore. Each individual park attendance was hard to notice on the ground. I have gone at around the same time of the year about every year since I first went there in late February as a rule, but, I even have gone at other times. January, February March, April, September and November and noticed no major difference in the total in any single park over all of those.

I'm thinking that the amount of landfill impact may very well be right on, but, it doesn't explain why there were fewer strollers in WDW. Disposable diapers may have increased landfill problem, but, they eliminated the ammonia wafting diaper pails and ensuing parental nausea. Good trade off in my mind.

There's a healthy dose of much needed reality in this post.

 

[Incomudro]

Strollers are one thing, it's ill prepared adults that don't know how to collapse them and attempt to board buses and the launch boats with them fully loaded that drive me bonkers.
However, what's the deal with people bringing these things into parks now?

How and why did this become an acceptable thing to do?

These should be banned.