So what if they wanted to build an e ticket in Storybook circus?

[Tom]

There's plenty of room for an E Ticket in Storybook Circusland, without touching the Speedway or getting close to Tomorrowland or existing Fantasyland.

All you need is an entry/exit portal built and an enclosed queue structure going out to a massive show building east of the park beyond the railroad tracks. Disneyland has done this in several locations, most recently in Adventureland with the Indiana Jones Adventure. They have a little cul-de-sac in a corner of Adventureland for the entrance/exit, and then a long and highly immersive enclosed queue structure that leads out to the ride building itself.

Here's how it works at Disneyland; all visitors see is the themed temple entrance in a corner of Adventureland, and the queue then leads them out beyond the railroad tracks to a big warehouse where the rest of the queue, pre-show and actual ride takes place. That's Disneyland's massive Pirates of the Caribbean two-building complex on the right of this photo (with boat trough passing out front near the building entry), and Jungle Cruise is on the left of the photo in the green area. The Disneyland Railroad tracks pass over the Indy queue hallway between the brown tunnel walls.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2155/2361229575_f6ce2a69dd_z.jpg?zz=1

If they can wedge a mega-E Ticket like Indiana Jones Adventure in between three other operating older attractions (Railroad, Jungle Cruise, Pirates) at Disneyland AND re-route the Disneyland Monorail tracks around the new building, then surely they could do AMAZING things with all that vacant land sitting just to the north and east of Dumbo Circusland!

http://www.wdwfanboys.com/wp-content/gallery/2012-03-05-aerials/fle3-5-12008.jpg

Very good post - thank you for the graphic and photos.

I agree 100% with what you are saying, with regards to it being possible. It isn't very feasible back there though. They've already relocated and added retention ponds to hold the water displaced by FLE. They can't keep moving those or they'll be too far from the water shed surface area.

Not pointing at you, but a lot of people don't understand how absolutely critical water management is on WDW property. When you see a canal or "cute little pond" on property....it's not there because they thought it would be a nice touch. It's there because they manage water levels to the teaspoon.

But my primary argument is that I don't think we, or Disney, really want an eTicket back in that corner, which would literally draw ALL the crowds through Little Kid Circus. That area is sort of a "safe haven" right now. Unless you're part of the group that will use those amenities or experience those attractions, you don't typically flock to the area - by design. We most certainly don't want a thrill ride back there, or every thrill junkie (a group made up mostly by teens, who I will most definitely stereotype into a crowd that I don't want loitering in the "safe area") will be engulfing the area.

This is why I firmly believe the next eTicket in the MK should replace the Speedway. It's a noisy, stinky mess and doesn't fit the theme of either land it's supposed to transition between. It's sitting on prime real estate, and actually has available land to its east, which isn't being used for water management (between the new retention pond and Space Mtn). They could build a massive show building outside the tracks (re-route the canal behind Space to run along World Dr), put a large queue/pre-show/gift shop building where the Speedway sits now, and even have room to open up that thoroughfare a bit more. Maybe throw in some sort of themed wall (like the castle walls) that is Futury on one side and Fantasy-y on the other, creating a real transition.

This would also balance the park out. You have BTMRR and Splash bookending the west, and then you'd have Space and this on the east. FLE would be to the north, thus giving the park a very evenly distributed crowd.

Doing something in Adventureland would pose a hefty challenge. First, there's no place to squeeze in another show building, and abandoning the Rivers of America is a greater feat than it appears. It's tied to Seven Seas Lagoon via the canal, and also shares water with Jungle Cruise and the moats. I imagine it plays a prominent role in water mgmt within the park as well.

There's a nice plot outside the tracks, NW of TSI, but getting there would be quite a haul. I'm all for doing something with TSI, but again, they'd probably have to leave the river and get you over or under it.

 

[WDW1974]

Speedway is not going anywhere ... kids love it. And this is one case where something for kids that is a timeless experience (all kids want to drive!) should stay. ... Only fanbois on fan forums think Disney wants to get rid of it.

They don't. They're right.

 

[cheezbat]

Speedway is not going anywhere ... kids love it. And this is one case where something for kids that is a timeless experience (all kids want to drive!) should stay. ... Only fanbois on fan forums think Disney wants to get rid of it.

They don't. They're right.

Regardless of it being something all kids want to do, it's ugly, outdated, smelly, noisy, and very unDisneylike nowadays. If it stays around then it needs a major overhaul. no doubt about that.

 

[Tom]

Speedway is not going anywhere ... kids love it. And this is one case where something for kids that is a timeless experience (all kids want to drive!) should stay. ... Only fanbois on fan forums think Disney wants to get rid of it.

They don't. They're right.

I never expected these words to come out of your mouth (well, er, fingers). Of all the unmagical things on property, this atrocity ranks up there with Dinoland. On second thought, it BEATS Dinoland....at least it has themed pavement

I can see where it might be a fun thing for kids, but sheesh. They can get the same experience in a 2-seater at their local Go-Cart Fun Park.

 

[vinnya1726]

WOW!

There's plenty of room for an E Ticket in Storybook Circusland, without touching the Speedway or getting close to Tomorrowland or existing Fantasyland.

All you need is an entry/exit portal built and an enclosed queue structure going out to a massive show building east of the park beyond the railroad tracks. Disneyland has done this in several locations, most recently in Adventureland with the Indiana Jones Adventure. They have a little cul-de-sac in a corner of Adventureland for the entrance/exit, and then a long and highly immersive enclosed queue structure that leads out to the ride building itself.

Here's how it works at Disneyland; all visitors see is the themed temple entrance in a corner of Adventureland, and the queue then leads them out beyond the railroad tracks to a big warehouse where the rest of the queue, pre-show and actual ride takes place. That's Disneyland's massive Pirates of the Caribbean two-building complex on the right of this photo (with boat trough passing out front near the building entry), and Jungle Cruise is on the left of the photo in the green area. The Disneyland Railroad tracks pass over the Indy queue hallway between the brown tunnel walls.

http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2155/2361229575_f6ce2a69dd_z.jpg?zz=1

If they can wedge a mega-E Ticket like Indiana Jones Adventure in between three other operating older attractions (Railroad, Jungle Cruise, Pirates) at Disneyland AND re-route the Disneyland Monorail tracks around the new building, then surely they could do AMAZING things with all that vacant land sitting just to the north and east of Dumbo Circusland!

http://www.wdwfanboys.com/wp-content/gallery/2012-03-05-aerials/fle3-5-12008.jpg

 

[spacemt354]

Of all the unmagical things on property, this atrocity ranks up there with Dinoland. On second thought, it BEATS Dinoland....at least it has themed pavement

I can see where it might be a fun thing for kids, but sheesh. They can get the same experience in a 2-seater at their local Go-Cart Fun Park.

Unmagical? Really? When I was a little kid driving that race car was one of the coolest things I ever did in Disney. The speedway is not going anywhere because there is no way Disney would remove that original opening day attraction from the MK. Tomorrowland needs an update there is no doubt about that. Taking out stitch's great escape and the laugh floor, along with utilizing the area formally occupied by the galaxy palace theater with a potential e-ticket might be viable options for the Tomorrowland project. But removing the speedway, a timeless classic for kids and adults riding with their kids, is never going to happen.

 

[Tom]

Unmagical? Really? When I was a little kid driving that race car was one of the coolest things I ever did in Disney. The speedway is not going anywhere because there is no way Disney would remove that original opening day attraction from the MK. Tomorrowland needs an update there is no doubt about that. Taking out stitch's great escape and the laugh floor, along with utilizing the area formally occupied by the galaxy palace theater with a potential e-ticket might be viable options for the Tomorrowland project. But removing the speedway, a timeless classic for kids and adults riding with their kids, is never going to happen.

Disney's track record of removing classic, timeless and popular attractions goes against what you and others are saying.

I agree, it's popular, but I'm just stating that the location is prime for something worthy.

 

[danlb_2000]

Unmagical? Really? When I was a little kid driving that race car was one of the coolest things I ever did in Disney. The speedway is not going anywhere because there is no way Disney would remove that original opening day attraction from the MK. Tomorrowland needs an update there is no doubt about that. Taking out stitch's great escape and the laugh floor, along with utilizing the area formally occupied by the galaxy palace theater with a potential e-ticket might be viable options for the Tomorrowland project. But removing the speedway, a timeless classic for kids and adults riding with their kids, is never going to happen.

Yeah, they would never remove an original ride like Snow White's Scary Adventures..... Oh, wait...

 

[spacemt354]

Yeah, they would never remove an original ride like Snow White's Scary Adventures..... Oh, wait...

I said "that" original attraction, in reference to the speedway, not all original rides. Of course Disney has replaced rides like snow white scary adventures, mr toad, alien encounter in the past. But this talk of removing the speedway is just wishful thinking on the parts of some contributors here, because it's not gonna happen. Kids like it too much so there isn't any need to remove it.

 

[Tom]

I said "that" original attraction, in reference to the speedway, not all original rides. Of course Disney has replaced rides like snow white scary adventures, mr toad, alien encounter in the past. But this talk of removing the speedway is just wishful thinking on the parts of some contributors here, because it's not gonna happen. Kids like it too much so there isn't any need to remove it.

People loved SWSA and there was no need to remove it....unless you consider using the space for something new a "need to remove it". If that's the case, then there would be a need to remove the speedway if they wanted to build something new there.

 

[rioriz]

Let's not forget that there are strong rumors that DL will be removing Autopia (a classic) along with their subs (used to be a classic) for a massive expansion. So maybe TDO won't remove the Speedway but there are some in the corp who would be willing to put Autopia on the chopping block for new development.

 

[spacemt354]

People loved SWSA and there was no need to remove it....unless you consider using the space for something new a "need to remove it". If that's the case, then there would be a need to remove the speedway if they wanted to build something new there.

But I highly doubt they do want to build something there. The Jungle Cruise takes up roughly the same amount of real estate the speedway does. So why not rip that up and build something there too? I think, and this is just my opinion, that there are some rides that are more replaceable than others. To the people who love the attractions such as SWSA, there is never a "need to remove it" because they want to continue to enjoy it. But as a little kid going with my family, SWSA was never high on our list of must-see attractions when we went to the MK. The speedway was though. I'm not saying that every family is the same as mine, all I'm saying is that it's not like snow white is leaving the parks forever. They are building another snow white ride right across the way. If the speedway is gone though, there is no other place in the magic kingdom or wdw for kids to enjoy driving a racecar, which at least for me as a little kid, was a huge thrill. It may be available as you say at some local go kart tracks, but there is just something unique about driving a racecar in the magic kingdom, and that feeling cannot be reproduced anywhere else.

And this is just me but what kind of attraction would go in the space used for the speedway? To me, the speedway serves as a pretty good transition from FL to TL. It's not like you're immediately hit with futuristic themes after walking past the teacups. While looking at the final turn of the speedway walking into tomorrowland, it would almost seem like that type of attraction would fit in fantasyland. But as you continue to walk down the path and see the astro orbiter and the tta in front of you, the speedway blends into the themes of those rides in tomorrowland with the color schemes, light fixtures, etc. So I just wonder. Is this e-ticket going to just thrust you into TL, or is it going to be a soft transition like the speedway? Are the futuristic themes going to overpower the rides around it like the teacups? How tall is this ride going to be? SM height? That could get awkward especially since the SW mine train, Teacups, Dumbo, and SM itself would be very close to the new ride. It's different with two rides like Splash and BTM because they contrast each other in color and design. But TL seems to be mostly that chrome color so I'm not sure how two tall rides standing next to each other with the same color design would look from in and around the park. And even if it's not tall, how is that going to affect the train ride and the walkway to TL? Instead of looking at green grass and a raceway, now you'll be looking at the back of buildings the whole time.

There is no doubt that there should be another E-ticket in the magic kingdom, especially with the predicted crowds coming. But my suggestion would be to put the ride where the old galaxy palace theater used to stand, and utilize the parking lot behind it as well. Maybe some type of state-of-the-art tron simulator ride. It doesn't have to be a huge ride in terms of height, but the experience could be e-ticket worthy, and like others have said, it could bookend the parks with 2 e-tickets in frontierland, 2 in tomorrowland, and the FLE in the middle.

 

[Patricia Melton]

I really learned a lot in this thread.

I think the biggest take away from me is thinking about crowd control and movement in the parks...and also water retention programs.

These are two things that a lot of people forget about. I'm in the aquaculture business so I know about ponds and drainage issues but I see a lot of people who comment on the land available at WDW who might not realize the importance of the seemingly random ponds around the property. I bet it's a nightmare dealing with the drainage in what used to be a swamp, and what's probably always trying to turn itself back into a swamp.

The crowd control strategy is fascinating to me. I must learn more about this. My son is an architect and I am going to have to sit down with him and ask about the planning aspects of ride placement. I agree with those above who've said that there should be no E-ticket near storybook circus. I think that's right. Let that area have just the soft pull of Dumbo and then those merchandise/meet&greet circus tents. We don't want giant swaths of people clamoring to an E-ticket in an area that has lots of kids in it. Little kids like that are called goggldinks in my family (little kids who are so young they don't know where they are going and are just amazed by everything and need to explore and look around wide-eyed once in a while). Let the little goggldinks have a place to goggle and about. I like how Storybook Circus is a place for them.

I also like the comments from many in this thread about Tomorrowland and Adventureland and Frontierland needing E-ticket crowd pulling engines.

I am really stymied by what an Adventureland E-ticket could be. NOT Indiana Jones anything. I think Indy's time has past. I'd love to see something original there...something that fit the spirit of Jungle Cruise. Like an original ride that used characters from the Adventurer's Club...maybe a Mystique Manor kind of thing...and adjacent to the ride would be an actual Adventurer's Club restaurant, like it was all part of the same complex. I think that would be fun, and if done right it would be different from the Haunted Mansion so the two things could exist in the same park without diminishing one another.

 

[Ignohippo]

Speedway is not going anywhere ... kids love it. And this is one case where something for kids that is a timeless experience (all kids want to drive!) should stay. ... Only fanbois on fan forums think Disney wants to get rid of it.

They don't. They're right.

The Speedway is easily my son's favorite thing to do at MK – may be at all of WDW. Still, it uses an enormous amount of land and doesn't fit at all thematically. As long as it could be replaced by something similar, yet better (like a drive around the world version at DHS), I don't think too many people would be up in arms about losing it.

What would be a disaster though is if they took it out and didn't replace it with anything similar (like they did when they took out M & M's homes and didn't build a proper ToonTown elsewhere).

 

[spacemt354]

The Speedway is easily my son's favorite thing to do at MK – may be at all of WDW. Still, it uses an enormous amount of land and doesn't fit at all thematically. As long as it could be replaced by something similar, yet better (like a drive around the world version at DHS), I don't think too many people would be up in arms about losing it.

What would be a disaster though is if they took it out and didn't replace it with anything similar (like they did when they took out M & M's homes and didn't build a proper ToonTown elsewhere).

Where else in wdw could they have built a proper toontown that would fit thematically?

 

[Tim Lohr]

Originally when it was going to be Roger Rabbit's Toon Town it was going to be in MGM/Hollywood Studios, the lot is still there on Sunset Boulevard between the Animation Courtyard and Rock 'n' Roller Coaster

As for the Speedway I don't think it's going anywhere because it's both popular and cheap to maintain, I can't see replacing something that's cheap and popular with something expensive but might not be as popular ...see "Rocket Rods"

 

[Lee]

NOT Indiana Jones anything. I think Indy's time has past.

I disagree. Indy is somewhat timeless, much like Star Wars.

I'd love to see something original there...something that fit the spirit of Jungle Cruise. Like an original ride that used characters from the Adventurer's Club...maybe a Mystique Manor kind of thing...and adjacent to the ride would be an actual Adventurer's Club restaurant, like it was all part of the same complex. I think that would be fun, and if done right it would be different from the Haunted Mansion so the two things could exist in the same park without diminishing one another.

Now THAT is something I'd buy a $100 one-day ticket for!
My two loves, Jungle Cruise and Adventurers Club.

I'll be in my bunk....

 

[threeyoda]

On second thought, it BEATS Dinoland....at least it has themed pavement

Dinoland has themed pavement too!

Themed to a gas station parking lot-turned 50's roadside attraction (No sarcasm)

 

[Patricia Melton]

Dinoland has themed pavement too!

Themed to a gas station parking lot-turned 50's roadside attraction (No sarcasm)

When I tell people that I enjoy DAK and that I like staying at Animal Kingdom Lodge, every now and again I hear someone say, "Isn't that the one they built on an old parking lot?".

I have no way of knowing how many, but there are people out where who exist who believe that Disney's Animal Kingdom was built on an old parking lot for Magic Kingdom and that is why you can "see" the old parking lot in "some parts of the park". They don't know it, but they are really talking about the DinoLand surfaces that were themed to an old parking lot.

But it's taken on this urban legend of its own that Disney "built a zoo" on an "old parking lot for Magic Kingdom".

 

[vinnya1726]

Originally when it was going to be Roger Rabbit's Toon Town it was going to be in MGM/Hollywood Studios, the lot is still there on Sunset Boulevard between the Animation Courtyard and Rock 'n' Roller Coaster

As for the Speedway I don't think it's going anywhere because it's both popular and cheap to maintain, I can't see replacing something that's cheap and popular with something expensive but might not be as popular ...see "Rocket Rods"

I am not sure how cheap it is to run. The sky rocketing cost of Gas and the amount of pollution this ride generates have to be something for those in Disney who are starting to think green.