Snow White's Scary Adventures

[TheBeatles]

Correct.

(As in you are correct that he is not correct.)

correct.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Hmm... I'd been wondering about that myself. The Mine Train coaster doesn't seem to have a very high capacity. All the artwork and ride diagrams point to a two-train operation, with six cars carrying four passengers each, for 24 riders per train. Let's be generous and say this ride will have a 2:30 minute ride time, and a train leaves every two minutes. (My hunch is the ride will have a ride time barely over two minutes though)

24 riders x 2 minute dispatch interval = 720 riders per hour

That's a smidge higher than Peter Pan's Flight, but almost the same as the current Snow White's Scary Adventures.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong and the Dwarves coaster will have a third train and a lower dispatch interval.

I have the capacities closer to the following:
Peter Pan's Flight: 1200
Winnie the Pooh: 600-800
Snow White: 600
Dumbo: 600

New Capacities:
Little Mermaid: 1800-2000
Seven Dwarfs: Unknown
Dumbo: 1200

The info I had on Seven Dwarf's was 4 cars per train for a capacity of 16 per car and 6 total cars. Is this incorrect?

I expect 7DMR to be the new anchor of FL, and the most popular ride back there for years to come.

I have high expectations for this ride as well. Everything I've seen makes it look like it will be a lot of fun.

Personally, I would vote to remake the SWSA building into a whole new dark ride and move the M&G to a new, purpose-built facility somewhere out of the way.
I certainly won't miss SWSA, but I hate to give up any real estate to a M&G.

Isn't this the long term plan?

I completely agree but where exactly could they add a purpose-built M&G? It seems the only real-estate left in FL is either the patch behind WTP & SWSA (which seems like it would be awkward to access) or the swampy area behind FLE, which they also didn't really leave for easy access to. There's always where Pete's silly sideshow is going but it just seems weird to shoehorn the Princesses into a Circus (Yes I realize they were in that same tent during MTTF, still...):shrug:

There's a meet and greet tent in Storybook Circus. Slap some beards on all the princesses, call them a sideshow and there you go. Otherwise I'd say add a new location for them as part of the new path to Liberty Square.

It is? That's good news; it means they can run up to three trains at a time, with one in rehab or ready as a spare.

It still just has the single load/unload station area, so you can't get much more than three trains going at a time. As there is not offline wheelchair loading like Disneyland's Space Mountain, three trains might even be a bit of a stretch for them, but I imagine they'll make it work.

Three trains and a 60 second dispatch interval gets them to around 1,500 per hour, best case scenario.

I would guess 1300-1600 per hour is realistic.

When I made that comment about hourly capacity, I was reflecting on the other recent discussion about FLE being greenlit primarily as a way to increase Magic Kingdom's rather weak parkwide ride capacity. The higher the hourly number the Dwarf Coaster can get, the better, as seen in my post just above.

Still, it leaves MK's Fantasyland with just two remaining classic dark rides; Peter Pan and Pooh. Not much ride capacity there, and compared to Disneyland's seven classic dark rides (Peter Pan, Pooh, Mr. Toad, Snow White, Pinnocchio, Alice, Roger Rabbit) it's a shame to see that classic Disney park art form wither away in WDW.

On it's own, one dark ride doesn't do much for hourly ride capacity at around 600 or 700 per hour. But install seven of them in a single theme park, with two getting upwards of 1,000 per hour (Pooh and Roger) and you just gained over 4,000 riders per hour. That's like adding two big Omnimovers to a theme park!

Magic Kingdom Park needs to be adding rides to its existing roster, not just swapping out old ones for new ones in an even trade. :brick:

The classic dark rides in Disneyland aren't elaborate D/E-Tickets. I'll call them C tickets because they're dark rides but something like Pinocchio is as basic as they come (Alice in Wonderland would be on the higher end). I'm all for replacing these smaller attractions with higher quality attractions - that's the type of park evolution I can get behind.

You're welcome. :wave:

It's just basic common mathematical sense, isn't it? But also from a creative and operational perspective, the dwindling number of classic dark rides at Magic Kingdom, baffles me.

Disneyland Resort has eight of them, several from the last two decades, and WDW Resort will only have two (2) of them left by 2012.

I would rather have One Little Mermaid than the 2-3 dark rides that have the comparable capacity but at a much lower quality.

Why isn't it considered an E-ticket then? To short? To small? Or what is the reason? All other rollercoasters, with the exception of Barnbuster were considered E-Tickets.

Primeval Whirl also doesn't stack up as an E-Ticket. I would guess that the scope isn't as big as Thunder Mountain so as such it's not an E. I'm optimistic that it will be a D-ticket in the same way that Toy Story Mania is a D-ticket.

 

[jmick71]

won't we have 3 dark rides in FL
pan, pooh, LM :shrug:

 

[jmick71]

I think we all know that once they spend money to repurpose the building with meet n greet rooms etc, its going to be a good couple of decades or more before we ever see a ride in there again. Its part of the new Fantasyland and wont be going anywhere for a very long time, sadly. What a waste of perfectly good ride space (ahem Tangled, TDO, there was your chance! But no). Anyway, the dark rides are beloved out at Disneyland, not so much here. They are by us of course here in forums but to the general public I guess not. They would rather have meet n greets apparently. :brick: :shrug:

you got my vote for tangled dark ride

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

I have high expectations for this ride as well. Everything I've seen makes it look like it will be a lot of fun.

It will not only be fun to ride. It will bring a lot of additional kinetics into Fantasyland and it's hill slopes will create a beautifully landscaped background for the entire area. After all I saw so far it will be imagineering at it's best.
People will just stop and watch the mine trains ride around like they stay in front of EE just watching and enjoying the atmosphere.
Imagine how it would have been with only the M+G in this area...

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

Primeval Whirl also doesn't stack up as an E-Ticket. I would guess that the scope isn't as big as Thunder Mountain so as such it's not an E. I'm optimistic that it will be a D-ticket in the same way that Toy Story Mania is a D-ticket.

I didn't count primeval whirl because it ist the only Disney rollercoaster with nearly no theming, just the plain, cheap looking carnival ride.

 

[WorldKey]

I think it should be converted into a Dumbo or 3 Little Pig dark ride, imagine what new technology could be used for one of those. A meet and greet, gutting half of the building? I thought we were already trying to stop that in EPCOT. Oh well, at least it isn't/wasn't as noticeable as both of the Skyway stations that they're taking down. :shrug:

-WondersOfLife


The last original pavilion. :king:

Wow - I never heard someone else mention this!....although I'm sure for various reasons it would never happen...but I always wondered why they didn't 're-imagineer' Dumbo into a continuous-load dark ride with Dumbo 'vehicles' on a platform with articulating arms that allowed them to go up and down and lean side to side and similate flying over the land and the big top, etc. It could really be a cool ride and solve the huge wait times and 'dual' Dumbos. But I realize that a big part of the fun for kids is seeing Dumbos flying through the air which makes them want to ride! Sometimes I guess simple is better to a kid!

 

[WorldKey]

BTW - I say after SWSA is shut down they should gut it and bring back Mr. Toad's Wild Ride!! Just a thought.....

 

[aladdin2007]

won't we have 3 dark rides in FL
pan, pooh, LM :shrug:

yes, well 4, if you count the dwarfs mine train, parts of it anyway. We have 3now, we could have had 4 if the original snow white wasnt closing or at least made into Tangled. :wave:

 

[TheBeatles]

I have the capacities closer to the following:
Peter Pan's Flight: 1200
Winnie the Pooh: 600-800
Snow White: 600
Dumbo: 600
.

it's higher.

 

[mp2bill]

Gut the interior.
Build four M&G rooms.
Add an inside queue area.
Add some backstage areas.

There you have it...Princess Fairytale Hall.

That's pretty week.

 

[TP2000]

won't we have 3 dark rides in FL
pan, pooh, LM :shrug:

The term "dark ride" traditionally meant a small car traveling along a busbar ride system past simple sets, usually set in the dark and lit with black-light fixtures to give the sets more dimension. They were a staple of Disneyland's Fantasyland in the 1950's, and have been included in at least one form in all the Fantasyland's built since then.

A "dark ride" in the traditional sense is Snow White, or Mr. Toad, or Peter Pan. A newer 21st century dark ride would be Winnie The Pooh on either coast, or Monsters Inc. in California. Even with the newer dark rides, they still don't use animatronics, but rather very simple manequins with only basic movements. Fantasyland dark rides required a B or C Ticket at either Disneyland or Magic Kingdom.

The Little Mermaid falls into a different category. It's bigger, bolder, on a much grander scale, using advanced animatronics and cutting edge special effectsThe Little Mermaid is bigger and bolder than Buzz Lightyear Space Ranger Spin, but not quite on the scale of Haunted Mansion, mostly thanks to its scale and special effects. Although, at Disneyland at least, they have been upgrading the effects used on the older classic dark rides lately. Fiber optics in Disneyland's Peter Pan, digital projections on Alice In Wonderland, or the exciting new "digital mapping" imaging technique added last year to Snow White's Scary Adventures in Disneyland.

Using the traditional definition of a "dark ride", Magic Kingdom's Fantasyland will have only two of them left when Snow White's Scary Adventures closes next year.

 

[Scuttle]

It will not only be fun to ride. It will bring a lot of additional kinetics into Fantasyland and it's hill slopes will create a beautifully landscaped background for the entire area. After all I saw so far it will be imagineering at it's best.
People will just stop and watch the mine trains ride around like they stay in front of EE just watching and enjoying the atmosphere.
Imagine how it would have been with only the M+G in this area...

Agree. The kinetics will be incredible for fantasyland. It has been missing the skyway and 20,000 kinetics for years. Also the more and more I found out about this ride the greater I think it is going to be. The video of the imagineers in the swaying cart on the truck was awesome and gives me high hopes for it.

 

[pixargal]

I don't see why they can't just either keep it, or retheme it to the Pinocchio ride or an original one. I think it's stupid to replace a ride with a rinky meet n greet. They could slap a tent anywhere and put some random princess in. It's upsetting that they're changing the ride to a meet n greet.

I love your idea about retheming the ride. There are so many classic movies that would work well there. Pinocchio is great. Another idea could be Alice's Adventures through Wonderland.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

BTW - I say after SWSA is shut down they should gut it and bring back Mr. Toad's Wild Ride!! Just a thought.....

Highly unrealistic, that would be a completely new ride as the old Mr. Toads is now Winnie the Pooh and not SWSA and you couldn't just take the old plans to build it again in a different building, you would have to start from nearly the beginning again and all that for a old ride that had to cope with dwindeling attendance in it's last years? You cannot compare it to the Tiki Room, they just had to throw out some AAs, bring back some old and do a refurb for that one.
Also who knows the movie today? Splash Mountain works because it's an highly elaborate E-Ticket flume ride, not because Songs of the South were a blockbuster every still knows today. Mr. Toads it nothing like that, it's much smaller and much simplier and the movie is without any relevance to modern audience. Mr. Toad will never come back, sorry.

 

[pax_65]

There should not be any sadness over the loss of SWSA. It is a classic ride, but it doesn't have the timeless quality of classics like Haunted Mansion, Pirates or even Peter Pan's Flight. The crowds are a good judge... that's why the lines at SWSA are typically fairly short.

Walt himself once said the park would never be "finished", that it would just keep getting better. The classics need to keep getting better so they don't become hopelessly outdated - the improvements made to Haunted Mansion are a great example.

It's not enough to clean up an classic attraction with fresh paint, like they did a few years back with SWSA. You need to improve the ride, evolve the ride - add new elements and/or new technology to make the ride more engaging and relevant than ever before.

This is my fear with my beloved Carousel of Progress. Cosmetic fix-ups are no longer enough for this attraction. It needs a major refurb to survive... or it may become the next new Meet & Greet.

 

[WorldKey]

Highly unrealistic, that would be a completely new ride as the old Mr. Toads is now Winnie the Pooh and not SWSA and you couldn't just take the old plans to build it again in a different building, you would have to start from nearly the beginning again and all that for a old ride that had to cope with dwindeling attendance in it's last years? You cannot compare it to the Tiki Room, they just had to throw out some AAs, bring back some old and do a refurb for that one.
Also who knows the movie today? Splash Mountain works because it's an highly elaborate E-Ticket flume ride, not because Songs of the South were a blockbuster every still knows today. Mr. Toads it nothing like that, it's much smaller and much simplier and the movie is without any relevance to modern audience. Mr. Toad will never come back, sorry.

Thank you so much for your detailed observation and expertise.....I was obviously making a joke. Sorry that it was not taken that way.....

 

[pax_65]

I was obviously making a joke. Sorry that it was not taken that way.....

When you remember how unbelievably upset people were at the loss of Mr. Toad, you can understand why someone might think you were serious. There were websites, petitions, talks of boycotts, you name it...

 

[imagineer boy]

I don't see why they can't just either keep it, or retheme it to the Pinocchio ride or an original one. I think it's stupid to replace a ride with a rinky meet n greet. They could slap a tent anywhere and put some random princess in. It's upsetting that they're changing the ride to a meet n greet.

I agree, but from what I've heard the meet n greet is only going to be temporary. But as we know "temporary" by Disney executive terms can be up to twenty years. :lol: But let's hope not for this case.

 

[TheBeatles]

I agree, but from what I've heard the meet n greet is only going to be temporary. But as we know "temporary" by Disney executive terms can be up to twenty years. :lol: But let's hope not for this case.

At first, temporary was the term used, but I haven't read anything for a long time that says PFTH is still temporary.