Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[DABIGCHEEZ]

Not even remotely "on topic".

The issue is not one of some do it therefore disabled can do it. The issue is that certain disabled individuals believe that Disney is not complying with the ADA in refusing access on Segways to disabled persons who use them as assistive devices. The previous poster cited an example of use in the parks that could be used to counter the "safety concerns" cited by Disney as their rationale for refusal. Whether or not such an argument will hold up in court is not for me to judge.

This is not your mother's "If your friends jumped off a bridge...".

Monty.. did you read the title of the post previous to my reply?.. Titled DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?.. I was just replying to one of the points made in that post. I think this is just a slippery slope for Disney to go down. I understand my examples are silly and extreme.. but some think this Segway crap is silly and extreme. They can not cater to everyones wants and as long as they provide some reasonable alternative they should be fine.

 

[Monty]

Monty.. did you read the title of the post previous to my reply?.. Titled DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO?.. I was just replying to one of the points made in that post. I think this is just a slippery slope for Disney to go down. I understand my examples are silly and extreme.. but some think this Segway crap is silly and extreme. They can not cater to everyones wants and as long as they provide some reasonable alternative they should be fine.

I did, but by stretching your examples to the extremes you did, you took the thread even further away from its roots. All guests, disabled or not, have to follow the rules established by Disney, unless they believe those rules unreasonably interfere with their equal enjoyment of the publicly accessible areas. It's entirely different that Disney has rules that say you can't go certain places using their watercraft even though their own vessels go there than saying a disabled person can't use an assistive device to access areas that are open to the public. And as I've stated, I personally believe Disney should win in this circumstance, but I respect that the individuals bringing the suit have the right to do so.

You mention golf carts, I'd be interested to see what would happen if a guest was of sufficient girth as to not fit on an ECV and asked to use a golf cart to get around the parks. It seems to me that there would be a valid argument to accommodate them within the scope of the ADA. :shrug:

 

[goofntink]

IMHO I believe Disney will come out on the losing end of this case. One of the things they are going to have to justify is the difference between allowing guests with no experience whatsoever to use Segways on the paid tours around other guests and the use of the machines by disabled guests who have experience with operating the Segways and why this is a safety issue.Another is the use of the Segway by Park employees aroung guests. Also I have seen use of the Segways by employees in all the parks not just Epcot.

 

[jmvd20]

Employees using transportation devices is an entirely different issue than guests using them. Employees also use golf carts, horse drawn carriages, and other motorized vehicles in the parks - that does not mean that anyone can or should be allowed to use them as well.

All of this aside the day will come when Segways are allowed to be used in public places. When that does happen I highly doubt that their will be a massive increase in injury accidents as some may think. And it will most certainly not mark the end of joyous times at Disney, or anywhere else for that matter.

I must wonder what all of the thoughts were when the telephone was first invented and brought into mainstream society, how about the car, bicycle? Anytime new things are introduced and changes are mentioned the associated fears around then rise to the surface. When all is said and done I would guess that 9 out of 10 times changes bring about positive things for everyone. Of course there are always some negative side effects but in general the positive ones far outweigh them.

 

[jmvd20]

I've had her there in 2001, 2005 (for my wedding) and this year. Unfortunately, there really are no mobility aids which can help her. We walk super slowly and stop a lot. She can sit for a few minutes on a completely hard surface with a back - like a hard wooden or metal chair, but not the benches because of the curved shaped. If she sits too long, things shift in her back and it causes her pain as well as makes it harder for her to walk at all. It takes time, but she enjoys it so much it's worth it.

It definitely sounds like a Segway style device would benefit her and your party as a whole. I think a problem here is that some people may not realize that certain conditions do not allow one to be comfortable sitting or laying down - I must admit I didn't think of things like this when I first read this thread. When we are so used to being able to relax and rest sitting down it takes time to realize that not everyone is the same way.

 

[J_Krafty24]

Ok, Lets say they do start to allow segways in the park for disabled guests. The argument being that those who have their own personal segway have the abilities to navigate the crowds of the parks. What is to keep someone who has a dissability but has no experience on a segway from renting one for the week to use down there. These individuals would not have the experience on the segways to navigate the crowds. Also, what is to keep Aunt Jane (who has experience on a segway) from letting little Billy (who can bearly reach the handle bars) from playing with the segway while she is eating or in the bathroom?

 

[Piebald]

Ok, Lets say they do start to allow segways in the park for disabled guests. The argument being that those who have their own personal segway have the abilities to navigate the crowds of the parks. What is to keep someone who has a dissability but has no experience on a segway from renting one for the week to use down there. These individuals would not have the experience on the segways to navigate the crowds. Also, what is to keep Aunt Jane (who has experience on a segway) from letting little Billy (who can bearly reach the handle bars) from playing with the segway while she is eating or in the bathroom?

We have plenty of Britney Spears incidents right now where parents let their kids drive the ECVs while they sit on the lap.

 

[Hakunamatata]

We have plenty of Britney Spears incidents right now where parents let their kids drive the ECVs while they sit on the lap.

Yep, and when the CMs ask nicely for them not to, nothing happens. I see this as nothing more than another way the plaintiffs bar is trying to force Disney into exposing themselves to more liability.

 

[jmvd20]

Ok, Lets say they do start to allow segways in the park for disabled guests. The argument being that those who have their own personal segway have the abilities to navigate the crowds of the parks. What is to keep someone who has a dissability but has no experience on a segway from renting one for the week to use down there. These individuals would not have the experience on the segways to navigate the crowds. Also, what is to keep Aunt Jane (who has experience on a segway) from letting little Billy (who can bearly reach the handle bars) from playing with the segway while she is eating or in the bathroom?

What is to stop these same people or little Billy from using the motorized scooters that are already available?

 

[Hakunamatata]

What is to stop these same people or little Billy from using the motorized scooters that are already available?

Which is the perfect reason for there not to be yet another type of equipment available to cause problems for someones magical vacation.

 

[PhotoDave219]

Yep, and when the CMs ask nicely for them not to, nothing happens. I see this as nothing more than another way the plaintiffs bar is trying to force Disney into exposing themselves to more liability.

Oddly we agree on this topic. This lawsuit will get dismissed before it see's the light of day. Disney will never allow private Segways in the parks. Even if they lose, Disney legal will appeal as far as they can. Thats what they do.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Oddly we agree on this topic. This lawsuit will get dismissed before it see's the light of day. Disney will never allow private Segways in the parks. Even if they lose, Disney legal will appeal as far as they can. Thats what they do.

Dave, I think the planets must have lined up or something. :ROFLOL:

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Not quite on topic but sort of similar.........If it is a do as I say not as I do issue then it leads me to a few questions..... why can't I take my rental sea racyer into certain places while DISNEY boats go everywhere? Why can't I go "backstage" when Disney can? I mean they drive floats and cars down Mainstreet... why can't I drive a golf cart down to Adventureland? Some extreme examples but if it is a they do it so the guests must be able to do it philosophy........It is their property and they have rules for whatever reason and we should all just follow them even if we dont agree with or like them.

Why are you going and trying to make sense....
It's going to ruin the whole thread...:brick:

 

[Hakunamatata]

Why are you going and trying to make sense....
It's going to ruin the whole thread...:brick:

And even further....they set off fireworks every night at the Magic Kingdom, so I should be able to brink my roman candles and bottle rockets to join in the fun. They also fire a gun on the Jungle Cruise, so I should be able to bring my handgun with me...

 

[tigsmom]

Just another viewpoint...

OrlandoSentinel.com

Note to Disney: Don't give up on Segway suit

Mike Thomas
COMMENTARY
November 13, 2007



You would think Grumpy is calling the shots at Disney, forbidding disabled visitors from using Segways at the theme parks.

This has prompted a federal lawsuit, which could turn into a class-action suit on behalf of all disabled Segway users.

Since this makes the Mouse look mean, the story is getting national attention.

Such is the curse of Disney.

I wish there were a sharply defined right or wrong position to jump on here.

I can empathize with a disabled person who wants to stand tall.

But I also am intimately familiar with the scrum of Disney crowds. Trying to get out of the Magic Kingdom after the closing fireworks rivals anything you'll encounter on a New York subway.

Only at Disney there are hordes of waist-high munchkins underfoot.

It's hard enough not tripping over them when you're walking. I can only assume that trying not to run over them while elevated on a Segway would be more problematic, particularly on the monorail ramps or winding sidewalks in Animal Kingdom.

I've ridden a Segway, and they can be temperamental.

There are pictures of President Bush almost doing a face-plant while trying to get up on one. Say what you will about his competence as leader of the free world; the guy is pretty athletic.

Segways may not be Corvairs, but they do have their problems.

Last year, Segway had to recall its scooters because of a glitch that sometimes caused them to unexpectedly apply reverse torque to the wheels, throwing riders off. There also was a 2003 recall because of a software problem that caused accidents.

Disney is rightly concerned.

The company is required by the Americans with Disabilities Act to provide handicapped access.

But what does that mean?

If a disabled person can get around just as well in a wheelchair as on a Segway, does Disney have the right to pick the wheelchair in the interest of guest safety?

One of the people suing Disney says she did not want her children seeing her rely on a wheelchair.

But to go that route means we expand the ADA to accommodate not only people's disabilities but also their feelings about their disabilities.

I feel for that woman, but this is a huge legal leap. But how do you fight it? Does Disney cross-examine a mother of two who has Lou Gehrig's disease?

A good lawsuit is all about sympathetic plaintiffs.

A shopping mall in Illinois agreed to allow Segways after being threatened with a similar lawsuit.

The American Civil Liberties Union filed a lawsuit against a mall in New Mexico on behalf of a Segway user. Settlement negotiations are ongoing, but the plaintiff is allowed to use his Segway in the meantime.

I hope Disney fights this because I think a reluctance to stand up to the ADA threatens to expand the law beyond all scope of reason. But the company will settle.

Who knows what is next.

Now the line between obesity and disabled is blurring, meaning soon you may be able to eat your way into government protection.

I can just see all those gravity-challenged guests at the Magic Kingdom, already a nuisance in their electric carts, graduating to Segways.

And when the inevitable accident occurs, guess whose deep pocket the lawyers will go after?

M-I-C . . .

Mike Thomas can be reached at 407-420-5525 or mthomas@orlandosentinel.com.
Copyright © 2007, Orlando Sentinel

 

[unkadug]

And even further....they set off fireworks every night at the Magic Kingdom, so I should be able to brink my roman candles and bottle rockets to join in the fun. They also fire a gun on the Jungle Cruise, so I should be able to bring my handgun with me...

Oooohhhhh....good one! :wave:

 

[KeeKee]

Mike Thomas commentary - right on the money!

 

[WDWRLD]

There is no way Segways should be allowed in the parks. Its bad enough now when the people get those rentals from those scooter rental companies. They run into people all the time. If someone was to bring their own Segway from home that they are profeichent in using in might not be bad but as we all know those same rental companies will see dollar signs and start renting those also with little or no training on how to ues them and no systen on making sure the person using it is capable of controlling it. As a Disney Dollars sense it would cost big bucks also to outfit the busses with brackets to transport the Segways. I can see it now...a segway loaded down with bags and everything eles noone wants to carry hauling butt down Main Street with everyone else in their party running behind it while its "clearing the way". Admit it we have all seen it.

 

[Eyorefan]

Mike Thomas commentary - right on the money!

I totally agree. This is not just about the "dignity" of people with disabilities, it is about the safety of the people around them. I also totally agree that it is taking the interpretation of the law to it's illogical extreme.

 

[tigsmom]

I totally agree. This is not just about the "dignity" of people with disabilities, it is about the safety of the people around them. I also totally agree that it is taking the interpretation of the law to it's illogical extreme.

I agree. I cannot answer the dignity question as,thank God, I am still able bodied, but they have to look at the bigger picture. Are Disney parks accessible to those with physical disabilities? Yes...I think Disney does a wonderful job with that. Could there be more w/c and scooters available? Probably, but a lot of people have their own and feel more comfortable using them and they are available for rent off site so you can be guaranteed one for the entire visit. I have been hit by wheelchairs and run over by scooters (as well as being assaulted by those blasted carriages), but I complain to my family and move on. I have not been injured to the point that I needed medical attention other than some basic first aid that I can carry out myself...I have seen others who were not so lucky.

A Segway is capable of greater speeds and of causing worse injuries to both the rider and the pedestrian; it is not a medical device, but a "toy" in the same vein as a go cart, snowmobile or jet ski. Disney has the responsibility of protecting all of its patrons and not just a select few. Were there no other options open to those individuals then I believe they would have a case, but there are other options and Disney has met their obligations under the law.