Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[joshwill]

catch-22

 

[mkt]

Getting seatbelts and airbags added to cars took legislation. That's what getting a Segway recognized as a medical device will take. Sadly most people aren't progressive enough to see the potential of the Segway, and most have not been in the position that the plaintiffs are in... which means there are lots of people running their mouths with little data and facts backing them up, only their opinions.

And what are opinions like?

 

[CBOMB]

[/b]

Unfortunately Disney would still be blamed for allowing dangerous vehicles to endanger other guests. I would think that as long as Disney provides some means of mobility for the disabled to get around with(scooters, wheelchairs) they should be fine.. but then I have never taken the bar exam. I just think this is the proverbial slippery slope.. where will it stop? Why can't I use inline skates to get around or better yet a bicycle or moped? If they have rules on their property why can't people just follow them? Like others said... before Segways, what did they do? Just another frivilous silly waste of money IMHO.

I really don't think they can be held liable if they are forced by law to admit people with a disability to use their Segway. I just don't see if you are following the rule of law that you are responsible for a persons action. As it stands now scooters are being rented out to people by WDW for a sizeable profit. If WDW decides to start renting segways I could see them assuming some liability then.

I asked the question earlier, but I still believe it to be pertinent.
What did these folks who now apparently "require" a Segway for mobility get along 4 or so years ago?

I would guess if they were unable to walk or sit in a wheelchair or ride a scotter, they just didn't go to WDW. However my guess would be most of these people used wheelchairs before. Now with the advancement of technology segways are available, and I think they feel more comfortable with this form of mobility. It's a decision the courts will have to render.

Getting seatbelts and airbags added to cars took legislation. That's what getting a Segway recognized as a medical device will take. Sadly most people aren't progressive enough to see the potential of the Segway, and most have not been in the position that the plaintiffs are in... which means there are lots of people running their mouths with little data and facts backing them up, only their opinions.

And what are opinions like?

You make excellent points. I think it is just a matter of time before segways for the disabled are more common, and protected under the ADA. These folks may or may not not win this round, but I assure you their battle will be picked up by others. There are hundreds of ways to approach this, and I think the final decision will have to be rendered by the Supream Court. People with disabilities are not an easy group to set aside anymore.
Now that's just my opinion, and yes I do have one of those other things to go along with it.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

I really don't think they can be held liable if they are forced by law to admit people with a disability to use their Segway. I just don't see if you are following the rule of law that you are responsible for a persons action. As it stands now scooters are being rented out to people by WDW for a sizeable profit. If WDW decides to start renting segways I could see them assuming some liability then.

Thats just it... WDW does already offer options for those who need assistance(wheelchairs and ECVs). Why would they start renting out Segway knowing that they will be liable for the accidents and injuries that are going to happen, when just banning them solves the problem all around?
A reasonable alternative is already offered...people(the plaintiffs) should use it and stop the complaining. ***Bangs the Gavel now!!!! :lol:

 

[mkt]

Thats just it... WDW does already offer options for those who need assistance(wheelchairs and ECVs). Why would they start renting out Segway knowing that they will be liable for the accidents and injuries that are going to happen, when just banning them solves the problem all around?
A reasonable alternative is already offered...people(the plaintiffs) should use it and stop the complaining. ***Bangs the Gavel now!!!! :lol:

That sounds painful, enlightened, educated, empathetic, and well thought out.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

That sounds painful, enlightened, educated, empathetic, and well thought out.

Why don't you just delete more of my post so you can take it even more out of context and not refer to my earlier post when you make your silly sarcastic comment. :zipit:

 

[mkt]

Why don't you just delete more of my post so you can take it even more out of context and not refer to my earlier post when you make your silly sarcastic comment. :zipit:

Done.

 

[s8film40]

Idea! Someone creative on these boards needs to one of those signs for Disney to put on the guide maps. Instead of the symbol showing guests in wheelchairs must transfer to a ride vehicle, make one showing a guest transfering from a segway to a wheelchair.

Seriously though, rent a wheelchair and be done with it. No need to raise a stink about it. Segways have fallen before and people get hurt. You don't have that risk in a wheelchair.

Here you go

 

[unkadug]

Done.

:lol:

 

[Sam02]

Strollers get far more complaints than wheelchairs, so I don't see a stigma here...
And how many people rent a motorized stroller at WDW just for the ride (which in itself creates a stigma from those watching someone perfectly ambilitory using one and thinking who do they think they are?). If I had the "excess" money, I'd rent a scooter...I would consider it brilliant, not undignified, with my only regret being that I might deprive a disabled person from a scooter if they run out.

Just because someone "looks" like they are healthy and do not need the use of a scooter that may not be the case. Not all users will be old and frail, some will be young and healthy looking. My husband is a perfect example. He has a mild case of fibromyalgia. Major physical exertion wipes him out and will put him in bed for hours if not days. He can walk just not for major lengths of time. So when we go to WDW we will rent him a scooter. This will allow him to enjoy his time there without having to be in bed after the first day trying to recuperate.

I also doubt that many healthy people will be renting scooters just to get "head of line" privileges. Financially I don't see many healthy people paying the rental fee if they don't need to.

 

[Slowjack]

I can't imagine life without mobility, and it takes a lot to make me unsympathetic to someone with a serious disability. But this lawsuit does so. This case illustrates the problem with the way the ADA was written. It was intended to ensure that disabled people were fairly accommodated. Instead, some people seem to think it should be used as a cudgel to make the world conform exactly to their desires.

 

[jmvd20]

Has anyone read, or watched...

 

[s8film40]

I'm really not against the use of segway's in the park. In many ways they would probably be safer. I have used both a segway and electric scooter both just in demonstrations. From what I experienced as a first time user was that the segway was easier to control since it used natural body movements and the controls on the scooter combine propulsion, direction control, and braking in the same control (meaning if your not pushing the forward or reverse button the brakes are applied) just like the autopia type cars. Most people don't bother using the speed control they simply alternate between going fast and stopping. The person riding a segway is also more open to any accidents that occur as compared to the scooters that have large bumpers, a person riding a segway understands that if the run into something or someone they will likely be hurt as well and therefore is more cautious. Segways are far better at manuevering through crowds which is why disney uses them themselves in the park. The real issue is misconduct on the segway on the part of the guest and this is really a seperate issue. A guest driving fast on a segway is no different than a guest running through the park both are just as dangerous. This is the real reason Disney doesn't want the segways in the park they don't really like to enforce their rules as this creates a negative guest experience and segways would create this kind of confrontation for Disney so it's easier just to ban them from the park.

 

[Testtrack321]

Doesn't EXACTLY pertain to this but...

http://www.fta.dot.gov/civilrights/ada/civil_rights_3893.html

The Segway is a two-wheeled, gyroscopically stabilized, battery-powered personal transportation device. The Segway is not designed primarily for use by individuals with disabilities, nor is it used primarily by such individuals. However, some individuals with disabilities may use a Segway as a personal mobility aid, in lieu of more traditional devices like a wheelchair or scooter.

The Department’s ADA rule (49 CFR Part 37, §37.3) defines a “wheelchair” as “a mobility aid belonging to any class of three or four-wheeled vehicles, designed for and used by individuals with mobility impairments...” (emphasis added). By this definition, a Segway is not a wheelchair. However, a Segway, when used by a person with a disability as a mobility device, is part of the broad class of mobility aids that Part 37 intends will be accommodated (see for instance §§37.5 and 37.165). In this way, a Segway occupies a legal position analogous to canes, walkers, etc.

Because a Segway is not a wheelchair, the ADA regulation’s provisions for lift and securement use specific to wheelchairs (§37.165(a) – (e)) do not apply to Segways and their users. However, §37.165(g) requires transit providers to “permit individuals with disabilities who do not use wheelchairs” to use a vehicle’s lift or ramp to enter the vehicle. Individuals who do not use wheelchairs commonly use the lift together with their non-wheelchair mobility devices, such as canes, crutches or walkers. Under this provision, an individual with a disability who uses a Segway as a mobility device must be permitted to use the lift.

This is not to say that transportation providers are required to allow all Segway users to bring their devices on board a bus or train. Transportation providers may establish their own general policies regarding Segways and other devices, just as they do with respect to pets or bicycles. However, when a device is being used as a mobility device by a person with a mobility-related disability, then the transportation provider must permit the person and his or her device onto the vehicle. This is analogous to the situation in which a transportation provider that has a general policy that does not permit pets to enter, but must permit a person with a disability to bring a service animal into a vehicle.

 

[s8film40]

So now whats going to happen when someone modifies their segway like this it will then fit the criteria for a wheelchair as well as Disney's criteria and we all know its really no different if anything it would be more dangerous.

 

[FaerieLuna]

When you have gone to WDW in the past what type of mobility aid did she use?

I've had her there in 2001, 2005 (for my wedding) and this year. Unfortunately, there really are no mobility aids which can help her. We walk super slowly and stop a lot. She can sit for a few minutes on a completely hard surface with a back - like a hard wooden or metal chair, but not the benches because of the curved shaped. If she sits too long, things shift in her back and it causes her pain as well as makes it harder for her to walk at all. It takes time, but she enjoys it so much it's worth it.

 

[colliera]

Do as I say, not as I do

Some disabilities are not an either/or thing, i.e., “If someone can't sit, they shouldn't be going on rides to begin with....” Answer - Some disabilities cause people to shift from standing to sitting and back again. That is to say they can’t tolerate being in the same position for an extended period of time but must change positions to relieve the pressure/pain.

“They offer wheel chairs and CM assistance getting on and off rides.” Not quite, Cast Members are NOT permitted to assist guests in getting on or off rides through physical contact. Members of the handicapped person’s party may assist them. Cast Members can offer assistance with different attraction access paths, slowing down or stopping the motion of the attraction.

“Why would they start renting out Segway knowing that they will be liable for the accidents and injuries that are going to happen, when just banning them solves the problem all around?” Same reason you sign a contract absolving Disney of accidents you cause when using their rented EVC.

While Disney does in my opinion the best job of accommodating disabilities of any company they probably have no legal standing on barring Segways by citing safety as an issue. When this topic came up a few weeks ago I was on Disney's side because of the safety to other guests in the park. Their Segway tour of Epcot occurs before the park opens which gave those on the tour plenty of room to mess up without the crowds to navigate through.

While that might be the plan it is NOT the practice. When I was at Epcot last month two different times a line of Segways on one of the tours came through crowds in the park AFTER park opening. They weren't running late trying to get back either as they were heading out through Future World going toward World Showcase in one instance and then on the East side of Innoventions heading toward SSE on the other tour a little later the same day. Imagine my surprise when I saw this after hearing Disney's statements citing untrained/inexperienced people in the middle of crowds.

All it will take is the discovery process requesting the logs of when these tours clock in and out.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

Some disabilities are not an either/or thing, i.e., “If someone can't sit, they shouldn't be going on rides to begin with....” Answer - Some disabilities cause people to shift from standing to sitting and back again. That is to say they can’t tolerate being in the same position for an extended period of time but must change positions to relieve the pressure/pain.

“They offer wheel chairs and CM assistance getting on and off rides.” Not quite, Cast Members are NOT permitted to assist guests in getting on or off rides through physical contact. Members of the handicapped person’s party may assist them. Cast Members can offer assistance with different attraction access paths, slowing down or stopping the motion of the attraction.

“Why would they start renting out Segway knowing that they will be liable for the accidents and injuries that are going to happen, when just banning them solves the problem all around?” Same reason you sign a contract absolving Disney of accidents you cause when using their rented EVC.

While Disney does in my opinion the best job of accommodating disabilities of any company they probably have no legal standing on barring Segways by citing safety as an issue. When this topic came up a few weeks ago I was on Disney's side because of the safety to other guests in the park. Their Segway tour of Epcot occurs before the park opens which gave those on the tour plenty of room to mess up without the crowds to navigate through.

While that might be the plan it is NOT the practice. When I was at Epcot last month two different times a line of Segways on one of the tours came through crowds in the park AFTER park opening. They weren't running late trying to get back either as they were heading out through Future World going toward World Showcase in one instance and then on the East side of Innoventions heading toward SSE on the other tour a little later the same day. Imagine my surprise when I saw this after hearing Disney's statements citing untrained/inexperienced people in the middle of crowds.

All it will take is the discovery process requesting the logs of when these tours clock in and out.

Not quite on topic but sort of similar.........If it is a do as I say not as I do issue then it leads me to a few questions..... why can't I take my rental sea racyer into certain places while DISNEY boats go everywhere? Why can't I go "backstage" when Disney can? I mean they drive floats and cars down Mainstreet... why can't I drive a golf cart down to Adventureland? Some extreme examples but if it is a they do it so the guests must be able to do it philosophy........It is their property and they have rules for whatever reason and we should all just follow them even if we dont agree with or like them.

 

[Monty]

Not quite on topic but sort of similar.........If it is a do as I say not as I do issue then it leads me to a few questions..... why can't I take my rental sea racyer into certain places while DISNEY boats go everywhere? Why can't I go "backstage" when Disney can? I mean they drive floats and cars down Mainstreet... why can't I drive a golf cart down to Adventureland? Some extreme examples but if it is a they do it so the guests must be able to do it philosophy........It is their property and they have rules for whatever reason and we should all just follow them even if we dont agree with or like them.

Not even remotely "on topic".

The issue is not one of some do it therefore disabled can do it. The issue is that certain disabled individuals believe that Disney is not complying with the ADA in refusing access on Segways to disabled persons who use them as assistive devices. The previous poster cited an example of use in the parks that could be used to counter the "safety concerns" cited by Disney as their rationale for refusal. Whether or not such an argument will hold up in court is not for me to judge.

This is not your mother's "If your friends jumped off a bridge...".

 

[NASAMan]

... Their Segway tour of Epcot occurs before the park opens which gave those on the tour plenty of room to mess up without the crowds to navigate through.

While that might be the plan it is NOT the practice. When I was at Epcot last month two different times a line of Segways on one of the tours came through crowds in the park AFTER park opening. They weren't running late trying to get back either as they were heading out through Future World going toward World Showcase in one instance and then on the East side of Innoventions heading toward SSE on the other tour a little later the same day. Imagine my surprise when I saw this after hearing Disney's statements citing untrained/inexperienced people in the middle of crowds.

All it will take is the discovery process requesting the logs of when these tours clock in and out.

Your post made a lot of good points, but I want to clarify the above snip for many who have never experienced a Segway tour.

These tours start as early as 8:00pm with training for the participants, and as an organized tour they sign a waiver, stay with the host/guide who monitors speed and usage, and stay away from high volume areas while making their way to and from World Showcase (which opens later in the morning). It would be interesting to sign up for a tour and say "Oh, I have my own Segway". Insurance liabilities might prevent them from allowing this. I don't believe the Segway itself is the issue, but the liabilities in allowing its use unregulated by guests. In the same way, a bike tour of the world could be organized by Disney, bikes provided for tour participants (hopefully better than the backstage bikes we use!), and still not allowing a guest to bring his own bike and use it unsupervised.

Epcot is the only park that allows staff to use Segways as it emphasizes the Future World theme (although Tomorrowland might be a good place as well, but for it's too narrow promenade), and any visitor can experience the Segway in Innoventions West.