Segways spark suit vs. Disney

[hooters dude]

I'm a disabled person but even though my leg is a problem I've been fortunate enough not to have to use a wheelchair or scooter. I normally walk through the pain (that's a personal choice, I wouldn't want or expect admiration for that) but if it came down to it I would use a wheelchair or scooter if I had to!

Why on earth would a disabled person (remember I'm one) think that their perception of dignity is greater than the physical safety of able bodied people :shrug:. It really annoys me when people use disabilities to get what they want as it gives the rest of us a bad name! It's not Disney's fault that the person is disabled or feels undignified using a wheelchair, they've done everything they can to accomodate disabled people by allowing wheelchairs and scooters in the first place.

I can't imagine these segways are used in every other aspect of their lives and yet all of a sudden when at Disney it's essential they use them and nothing else will do! I'm sorry to say it but the sort of person who stares at people in wheelchairs is the sort of idiot who would stare at people using segways, probably even more so. People stare and make comments (yes we disabled people can SEE and HEAR you) when my leg is playing up but I'm sure I'd get even more attention if I were on a segway and surely that's a good proportion of the dignity issue?

Anyway I'll get off my soap box now and please don't think all disabled people expect everybody to be inconvenienced because of our misfortune, WE DON'T

:wave:

 

[skeeter]

just my opinion

I have rarely visited a public place that was so in tune to the needs of disabled people as Disney is. They go to extremes to insure that ALL of their guests receive the best possible experience equally. When I went to Disney with a friend and her grandmother was in a wheelchair I saw firsthand the strident effort placed by Disney to accommodate anyone with a disability. Now, as far as the segways? I would have to agree with Disney on this. I have been hit by a scooter at the park before (with a bruise to the leg for over two weeks) so what is to stop a fast moving segway from plowing over me? And would Disney's insurance even allow this? Probably not. How many times have you seen kids or even the grandkids playing with wheelchairs while its primary occupent is vacant? I watched a little boy push his sister into a crowd at Disney Studios while his family was eating. They hit another little girl and knocked her over. Now imagine when those same kids start playing with the segway that their family has just rented or brought with them? Could be a bad scene for Disney and new lawsuits-a-plenty would pop up for certain. :lookaroun

 

[cptwife80]

The segway wasn't designed to be a vehicle for the disabled... it was a rich persons toy. As a CNA i see nothing wrong with the wheel chairs and motorized ones except getting run over by unpatient visitors. If segways were aloud I could see grandma on it running over everything because the level of sight is above everyone else. It's a very very bad idea... They just want money nothing else... enough of the dumb cases in the justice system.:fork:

 

[unkadug]

The segway wasn't designed to be a vehicle for the disabled... it was a rich persons toy. As a CNA i see nothing wrong with the wheel chairs and motorized ones except getting run over by unpatient visitors. If segways were aloud I could see grandma on it running over everything because the level of sight is above everyone else. It's a very very bad idea... They just want money nothing else... enough of the dumb cases in the justice system.:fork:

So were calculators in the 60's and computers in the 70's.

As technology progresses, price points come down.

 

[takeleus]

The ADA act of 1990 makes sure that equal access is afforded those with disabilities. Has Disney meet that criteria, if not they would not still be open for business; they would have been closed for violation of Federal Law. And I believe that Disney goes beyond most places in accommodating people with disabilities. They offer wheel chairs and CM assistance getting on and off rides. I have never seen an office or factory (which are also covered under the ADA) make the efforts in helping their disabled employee’s. I work in a factory and I have never seen a supervisor take a employee out of a wheel chair set them up at a machine set them back in the wheel chair at the end of the day. And really, the use of Segways indoors and in heavily congested areas does not sound like the best idea. We are trying to turn a recreation device into a medical device. Which can happen, but there are plenty of medical devices that can offer any disabled person access to Disney. There was a reason that Disney banned wheely shoes and there is just as valid a reason that the Segways should remain banned – SAFETY. Under OSHA, ASME, and your state Amusement Park Safety Administration, there are a multitude of laws and governing the operation and safety in the parks. Companies go to great lengths to ensure that employees and visitors remain safe. Where do we draw the line on who is handicap? The person in question has limited or no use of his legs. What about obese people, what about people with Turrets, what about people with Mental Disorders, where do you draw the line on who can use them. The law says that "reasonable modifications in policies, practices or procedures to accommodate disabled customers”. Because they think that they are too good to use a wheel chair mean that Disney has not made every effort to meet the requirements of the law. Personally I think that I will sue Disney because I use deodorant and they allow people in the park that do not. Just like this useless lawsuit it stinks.

 

[WDWFigment]

Before everyone goes whining about how common frivolous lawsuits are (which is wholly untrue, they are just a microscopic minority of all lawsuits that happen to get a lot more press) this case will probably be disposed of via summary judgment for Disney when the plaintiffs can't meet their burden of showing that Disney isn't making "reasonable accommodations" pursuant to ADA standards.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Why stop at a Segway. Why shouldnt I be able to drive my golf cart or 4wheeler around the parks?

 

[jmvd20]

I do not think that I would call this suit "frivolous" in the first place. They are not asking for monetary damages, they are asking that they be allowed to use the Segways at WDW. Since Disney has told them that they cannot use Segways at the parks they have asked the courts to decide whether or not that violates ADA.

While Segways are perfectly acceptable as a form of transport on regular pedestrian sidewalks and roads amusement parks and malls are a completely different area. Many studies have been conducted to determine the safety of Segways as a transportation means and in general they have all concluded that the danagers are similar to those of roller bladers, skateboarders, and bikes. They have also found that limiting Segway riders speeds to those of the surrounding pedestrian foot traffic is the best way to go.

A study in Canada also found that any place where bikes, or motorized vehicles are banned Segways should also be banned. Based upon these findings it is perfectly reasonable for WDW to ban Segways from the parks due to the safety of all guests. Theme park and mall walkways are too crowded and the pedestrian load significantly exceeds that of typical pedestrian sidewalks and bikepaths.

Segways, unless specifically prescribed for a medical condition by a doctor should be banned from all shopping malls, theme parks etc...

 

[BiggerTigger]

It is private property, but is open to "public accommodation" and therefore is covered by the ADA of 1990. Now I'm taking this from Wiki (not my favorite source, but a quick one)...



The parks, restaurants and hotels have to be made available to those with disabilities, but it does not say what types of transportation you have to let people use. Making the parks wheelchair and scooter friendly and making some available for rental to those who do not own them is a must, but it does not say that you have to let every type of transportation in.

The catch with the ADA Act is "Reasonable accommodations". The use of a wheelchair, motorized EVC, and ramps are considered reasonable accommodations. The win of this law suit can create major changes in the ADA Act.
If the plaintifs win this case this may determine that the person with a disability can decide what is "reasonable accommodation" for them and businesses may need to change all accommodations for everyone.
Hence, it may no longer be acceptable to transfer from wheelchair to a ride, they could be forced to change ride vehicles to accommodate a wheelchair (or whatever device a disabled person deems reasonable).
This case could have a ripple effect. I agree with Disney on this matter, they are making reasonable accommodations for all of their guests.

 

[jmvd20]

The catch with the ADA Act is "Reasonable accommodations". The use of a wheelchair, motorized EVC, and ramps are considered reasonable accommodations. The win of this law suit can create major changes in the ADA Act.
If the plaintifs win this case this may determine that the person with a disability can decide what is "reasonable accommodation" for them and businesses may need to change all accommodations for everyone.
Hence, it may no longer be acceptable to transfer from wheelchair to a ride, they could be forced to change ride vehicles to accommodate a wheelchair (or whatever device a disabled person deems reasonable).
This case could have a ripple effect. I agree with Disney on this matter, they are making reasonable accommodations for all of their guests.

A large portion of the ADA laws deal with how areas are to be constructed in order to better accommodate people with disabilities. In numerous instances the extreme additional costs of making older structures ADA compliant has stopped revitalization projects, renovations, and additions dead in their tracks.

As it stands now ADA regulations add significantly to the costs of many construction projects, both new and renovations. I completely agree with your assessment that should this case be found in favor of the plaintiffs many things could and most likely will change. However, I think that will be the exact reason why the case will fail.

 

[JeffH]

We will all pay for this, you know.

Wheelchairs have a stigma attached to them (right or wrong) as you can see in any of the various threads here that complain about the people who use them; the same goes for a motorized scooter. It is a personal dignity issue no matter how many people disagree.

Strollers get far more complaints than wheelchairs, so I don't see a stigma here...
And how many people rent a motorized stroller at WDW just for the ride (which in itself creates a stigma from those watching someone perfectly ambilitory using one and thinking who do they think they are?). If I had the "excess" money, I'd rent a scooter...I would consider it brilliant, not undignified, with my only regret being that I might deprive a disabled person from a scooter if they run out.

This type of lawsuit itself is what is undignified and a waste of money (resulting in WDW increasing prices to compensate, thank you), an abuse of our legal system, an abuse of a wonderful thoughtful groundsetting company like WDW (who has always catered to the disabled),

 

[danv3]

Companies have to make reasonable accomodations under the ADA, but they do not have to do whatever a disabled person demands or asks them to do. They have to do what is reasonable, which is exactly what Disney has done. Summary judgment for the defendant.

 

[Monty]

Dignity is a very personal thing. I am disabled, though fortunately not confined to a wheelchair yet. To have no choice but a wheelchair is a blow to one's dignity. Having the option of using a Segway rather than a wheelchair is an improvement in that one's dignity is not being impacted as much [or potentially at all]. If these individuals have that option and Disney says they can't avail themselves of it, they have every right to bring the lawsuit they have. Conversely, Disney has every right to ban them in the absence of specific jurisprudence to the contrary. The legal system is there to address such discrepancies between interpretations of any given law.

While I personally believe that Disney should win, based primarily on the general safety of their guests, it is not my decision to make. Whether or not provision of currently accepted accommodations are sufficient in light of advancing technologies is to be considered "reasonable" is quite legitimately something for the courts to decide.

To dismiss the suit as frivolous is unfair, the individuals in question believe the ADA protects them in this circumstance and have every right to pursue their perceived rights until they are either dismissed by or codified by the courts.

 

[mousermerf]

The big problem is that those suing see a wheelchair as indignant. I can assure that is not Disney's stance.

 

[juan]

just a little info on the CM segway side
In order for you to use a segway on stage at epcot, you have to take a 6-hour training course. It has to be necessary to complete your job for you to use a segway. You can only use it at epcot because the paths are wide enough and if the crowd is not too large.
I have seen CM's that have broken their arms and have run over guests by using the segways. Allowing guest to use them freely would only increase this exponentially.
They also don't hold their charge extremely well, so what will happen when a disabled guest runs out of batteries?

This lawsuit should be thrown out.

 

[Monty]

just a little info on the CM segway side
In order for you to use a segway on stage at epcot, you have to take a 6-hour training course. It has to be necessary to complete your job for you to use a segway. You can only use it at epcot because the paths are wide enough and if the crowd is not too large.
I have seen CM's that have broken their arms and have run over guests by using the segways. Allowing guest to use them freely would only increase this exponentially.
They also don't hold their charge extremely well, so what will happen when a disabled guest runs out of batteries?

This lawsuit should be thrown out.

Since I've seen CMs on Segways outside Epcot, that is clearly not true. I've certainly seen a CM riding one at Pop Century back and forth past the very crowded bus stops.

And how can you compare a six-hour training session for someone who uses it for their job to the level of skill likely to be acquired by an individual who depends on it day-to-day for their mobility? I suspect [though I have no empirical evidence] that the disabled person who uses one as part of their daily lives would be a much more adept driver than someone with a six-hour course.

All that said, I still believe the lawsuit has merit for the purpose of establishing jurisprudence and equally my personal belief is that ultimately Disney should win.

 

[brisem]

Let's say Disney allows the Segways. Who's at fault if some one on a Segway injuries another guest.

 

[DABIGCHEEZ]

Reporting live from the Magic Kingdom...

A disabled guest operating a Segway who was involved in a hit-and-run collision with a pedestrian is now in a high speed chase with Disney Security in hot pursuit...


Seriously, if these disabled guests would like to use Segways in the parks, upon arrival, they should sign a form stating that they shall be liable for any damages caused.

Unfortunately Disney would still be blamed for allowing dangerous vehicles to endanger other guests. I would think that as long as Disney provides some means of mobility for the disabled to get around with(scooters, wheelchairs) they should be fine.. but then I have never taken the bar exam. I just think this is the proverbial slippery slope.. where will it stop? Why can't I use inline skates to get around or better yet a bicycle or moped? If they have rules on their property why can't people just follow them? Like others said... before Segways, what did they do? Just another frivilous silly waste of money IMHO.

 

[jmvd20]

Let's say Disney allows the Segways. Who's at fault if some one on a Segway injuries another guest.

Disney Corp. and their liability carrier would be responsible for the incident. Of course the injured patron could go after the person using the Segway as well, however in this case you go after the person/entity worth the most money.

 

[mousermerf]

I keep thinking - if the court forces Disney to allow them does that mean they're not responsible for accidents?