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Second closure for Disneyland Paris due to COVID-19

marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
you‘re right the advisor made a mistake at a press conference which was later corrected. Either way its still a sad statistic

Here in the UK government messages have changed from ‘vaccination will stop you getting covid‘ to ‘learn to live with it and you’re less likely to die if you’ve been vaccinate’.

Im not a conspiracy nut but it’s obvious that the government here is trying to have a summer outbreak when there is hospital capacity even the conservative modelling has 100-200 people a day dying for weeks or maybe months. Its the scariest I’ve felt since the start of the pandemic, all we can do is try and stay safe
It’s a cluster when the US tells its citizens not to enter the UK. Absolute inept and a lack of control now from our government.
If they’ve sunk my plans for the 50th I’ll personally go and egg number 10.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
It’s a cluster when the US tells its citizens not to enter the UK. Absolute inept and a lack of control now from our government.
If they’ve sunk my plans for the 50th I’ll personally go and egg number 10.
Having worked in different places the one place I’d never go back to is the UK civil service. It was most inept place imaginable a prime example of the Peter Principle in action- everyone is so scared of making a mistake that nothing ever gets done and no one has the experience or background knowledge to make an informed decision as they are encouraged to move constantly to avoid getting blamed
 

TiggerDad

Well-Known Member
I promise I am not trying to discredit you in any way. It seems you have mistakenly inverted your numbers because the UK Chief scientific advisor made a mistake in reporting exactly what you said and then corrected himself. It seems that 60% of hospital admissions in the UK are from unvaccinated people. Nevertheless, this does not make me feel any better because the numbers imply that 40% are vaccinated, and this does not give me much confidence in the vaccines.

We have had flu vaccinations around for many many years, and because of seasonal variations, the flu vaccine is not ultra effective either. This is an anecdote, but my wife gets the flu shot every year and has gotten the flu 3 out of 5 years (she works in special needs education), and had moderate to severe symptoms each time. Also because of variations we cannot cure the common cold. These vaccines have been rushed through emergency authorizations and I am hard pressed to believe that the pharma companies have a vaccine that is even on par with the effectiveness of the flu vaccine. There just has not been enough time. I absolutely hate to say this, but I do not believe these vaccines are going to hold up as well as we are being told they will. Covid may be here to stay for a long while it not forever whether we like it or not.


In the US, it’s 90-99% of hospitalizations and deaths from unvaccinated people:


I wonder if that is based on effectiveness of AstraZenica versus Pfizer shots?
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
In the US, it’s 90-99% of hospitalizations and deaths from unvaccinated people:


I wonder if that is based on effectiveness of AstraZenica versus Pfizer shots?
No one really knows the effectiveness of the various vaccines against the different variants its all too new for stats, how healthcare works (when you are hospitalised etc) varies by location and countries all record covid statistics in different ways. Even with the same vaccine different timings of each shot can affect its protection. This is a good summary of some of the variables


Between the short timing of everything and the media / political spin its so hard to work out the truth
 
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marni1971

WDW History nut
Premium Member
I really don’t understand when safety measures like this are phased in. Surely you should do the full implementation and then ease off if hopefully things improve. Saying we’ll up the measure in a few weeks doesn’t make it sound that effective now to me
The UK gave 4 days warning it was closing to India to “keep the delta variant out”

Every flight from India for those 4 days was sold out.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
The UK gave 4 days warning it was closing to India to “keep the delta variant out”

Every flight from India for those 4 days was sold out.
Its just nuts. When the pandemic began last year we were in Thailand. Everywhere you were temperature checked and masks and sanitizer was everywhere.
When we made it back to the UK it was the start of the first lockdown. We couldn’t believe that there were no checks at all at Heathrow or on the tube when we travelled home

The way the west has handled the pandemic has been bad compared to asia, I only hope we learn the lessons of those countries rather than congratulating ourselves for beating the virus
 

Oddysey

Well-Known Member
In the US, it’s 90-99% of hospitalizations and deaths from unvaccinated people:


I wonder if that is based on effectiveness of AstraZenica versus Pfizer shots?

First I agree that disparities in data could be a result of differing vaccine effectiveness, but the numbers are rarely reported for each vaccine and are often lumped together. This is disconcerting because it is a very important piece of the puzzle.

That said, I watched the US Press Secretary state in her live conference 2 or 3 days ago that 97% of hospitalizations are a result of the unvaccinated. The UK is reporting 60% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated, and Israel is reporting that the Pfizer vaccine is 88% effective against hospitalization. These numbers are quite disparate and lead me to believe that the US reportings are potentially optimistic. 97% is also not consistent with anecdotal info I am seeing on the ground in the US in my small circle. I now know of multiples of hospitalizations of the vaccinated and if 97% is the real number, I should be hard pressed to actually know multiples of people this has happened to.

I’m not saying the vaccines are not effective, but such wide variations in the reporting of the data raises my antennas a bit and causes me to dig a bit deeper rather than just trust what my government is telling me. The US may also be reporting 97% effectiveness against hospitalizations for the Alpha variant because the vaccines seem to be holding up against Alpha better than the Delta variant and possibly the Lambda variant. However, this is me speculating because they are never clear in their reporting. I wish my government would just release all the data and be clear, but that seems to be huge ask these days. I want to be able to put my full trust in them during a pandemic.

That said, I hope the vaccines hold up against all variants. After all, I am a human and would prefer not to get sick or see family members get sick. I just hope we are getting real numbers and not the governments preferred numbers. Time will tell.
 
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Robbiem

Well-Known Member
First I agree that disparities in data could be a result of differing vaccine effectiveness, but the numbers are rarely reported for each vaccine and are often lumped together. This is disconcerting because it is a very important piece of the puzzle.

That said, I watched the US Press Secretary state in her live conference 2 or 3 days ago that 97% of hospitalizations are a result of the unvaccinated. The UK is reporting 60% of hospitalizations are unvaccinated, and Israel is reporting that the Pfizer vaccine is 88% effective against hospitalization. These numbers are quite disparate and lead me to believe that the US reportings are potentially optimistic. 97% is also not consistent with anecdotal info I am seeing on the ground in the US in my small circle. I now know of multiples of hospitalizations of the vaccinated and if 97% is the real number, I should be hard pressed to actually know multiples of people this has happened to.

I’m not saying the vaccines are not effective, but such wide variations in the reporting of the data raises my antennas a bit and causes me to dig a bit deeper rather than just trust what my government is telling me. The US may also be reporting 97% effectiveness against hospitalizations for the Alpha variant because the vaccines seem to be holding up against Alpha better than the Delta variant and possibly the Lambda variant. However, this is me speculating because they are never clear in their reporting. I wish my government would just release all the data and be clear, but that seems to be huge ask these days. I want to be able to put my full trust in them during a pandemic.

That said, I hope the vaccines hold up against all variants. After all, I am a human and would prefer not to get sick or see family members get sick. I just hope we are getting real numbers and not the governments preferred numbers. Time will tell.
There a lot of ‘interesting statistics’ at work for sure. Here in the UK government messages have gone from ‘being vaccinated will stop you getting covid’ to ‘it will stop you being hospitalised/dying’ to ‘we have to live with it’. Even our own health minister has caught covid after being fully vaccinated.

I suspect politicians wont share the full facts because the vaccine programs have become highly politicised and none of them want to tell people they aren’t going to be as protected as they were promised
 
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Oddysey

Well-Known Member
There a lot of ‘interesting statistics’ at work for sure. Here in the UK government messages have gone from ‘being vaccinated will stop you getting covid’ to ‘it will stop you being hospitalised/dying’ to ‘we have to live with it’. Even our own health minister has caught covid after being fully vaccinated.

I suspect politicians wont share the full facts because the vaccine programs have become highly politicised and none of them want to tell people they aren’t going to be as protected as they were promised

The US Government’s message has went from “you can’t get it or spread it if vaccinated” to “you might get it but you won’t get severely ill.”
Our message is not evolving as quickly as the UK message, but it is evolving.

Also in today’s news according to this report immunity is waning several months after vaccination and Pfizer is already advocating for a 3rd shot or booster.

 

wdrive

Well-Known Member
I really don’t understand when safety measures like this are phased in. Surely you should do the full implementation and then ease off if hopefully things improve. Saying we’ll up the measure in a few weeks doesn’t make it sound that effective now to me

It’s basically to allow people time to be vaccinated. They are following the governments rules. Visiting places like theme parks and zoos are less important than shops and restaurants. I get it doesn’t make much sense in the context of Disneyland but they are just doing what they’re being told to do.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
It’s basically to allow people time to be vaccinated. They are following the governments rules. Visiting places like theme parks and zoos are less important than shops and restaurants. I get it doesn’t make much sense in the context of Disneyland but they are just doing what they’re being told to do.
I just don’t get it. At the moment there are less restrictions with less vaccinated people. Surely when more people are vaccinated its the time to ease the restrictions not tighten them further?
 

Swissmiss

Premium Member
It’s basically to allow people time to be vaccinated. They are following the governments rules. Visiting places like theme parks and zoos are less important than shops and restaurants. I get it doesn’t make much sense in the context of Disneyland but they are just doing what they’re being told to do.

I believe it has more to do with the fact that a legal basis had to be adopted by the French legislature first so that certain measures could be implemented. Those that did not require an additional legal basis went into effect last week and those that did go into effect shortly.
 

Swissmiss

Premium Member

While this may be technically correct, it is not the practice when entering from the train station side. You first show your health pass before proceeding through security. I don’t know what the reply would have been if someone says they are only going to the Village.

However, if you enter from the Disney Village parking lot side, it is correct to say that no health pass was required to enter the Village; they asked for the pass further inside as you continue towards the parks.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
I believe it has more to do with the fact that a legal basis had to be adopted by the French legislature first so that certain measures could be implemented. Those that did not require an additional legal basis went into effect last week and those that did go into effect shortly.
Thanks. That makes sense, although it still sounds too late from a public health perspective
 

wdrive

Well-Known Member
I just don’t get it. At the moment there are less restrictions with less vaccinated people. Surely when more people are vaccinated its the time to ease the restrictions not tighten them further?

The measures basically exist to encourage people to get vaccinated. If you say no one can go to a shop from tomorrow if you’re not vaccinated you’ll just end up with angry people. If you say in a month from today you need to be vaccinated to go to a shop that gives people a month to get vaccinated.
 

Swissmiss

Premium Member
The measures basically exist to encourage people to get vaccinated. If you say no one can go to a shop from tomorrow if you’re not vaccinated you’ll just end up with angry people. If you say in a month from today you need to be vaccinated to go to a shop that gives people a month to get vaccinated.

There is no disputing that the measures were taken to increase vaccination rates - Macron said that during his announcement. However, some of the measures could not be implemented before the necessary legal framework was adopted.
 

Robbiem

Well-Known Member
The measures basically exist to encourage people to get vaccinated. If you say no one can go to a shop from tomorrow if you’re not vaccinated you’ll just end up with angry people. If you say in a month from today you need to be vaccinated to go to a shop that gives people a month to get vaccinated.
Interesting I was thinking about the effects of the measure itself (stopping infection) rather than the behaviour it’s designed to encourage (getting vaccinated). Although I’d still err on the side of caution. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should do it
 

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