Save the Adventurers Club

[Scooter]

Wishful thinking is one thing but stating the above as fact is delusional. Still, the colonel and other characters of the AC would no doubt be proud of your taking the oath seriously even after all these years, if only they weren't fictional characters.

If you have facts, let's see them. But saying "trust me on this" even while the sign is removed/painted over is asking too much for reasonable minds.



There are artifacts on display in merchandise shops and an Adventurer's Drink Hut. There's your sight of the AC in a lesser form in the here and now.



That is not a dead parrot - he's pining for the fjords!

Fact: November 17, 2011 - Adventurer's Club still closed. Not opening today.

***

You Adventurer's Club-heads need to remember that just because you are insane*, that doesn't excuse you from the obligation to be nice to other forum members who come in here to join the discussion using facts and logic. If you want to be invisible and free from the observations of people who are not blind followers of your cause, keeping a thread in the busiest of the wdwmagic discussion forums is probably not the best place to do so.



*joking. . . maybe :lookaroun

Well said! :sohappy:

 

[KungalooshAL]

Why dont you antagonists go start your own thread elsewhere ?? The rest of us would like to reminisce and hope. We're not here on this thread for your cheap thrill.

 

[MKCP 1985]

Why dont you antagonists go form your own thread elsewhere ?? The rest of us would like to reminisce and hope. We're not here on this thread for your cheap thrill.

No, you certainly aren't.

And I am not an antagonist, but I am interested in what will come of the property and would remind you that there is a difference between participating in a rally to try and save the attraction and telling wdwmagic's forum members and guests that a plan exists to reopen the club despite all outward evidence to the contrary.

Despite what you might read from other members, a person questioning this thread is not by definition a complainer or a person who is uninterested in the club or its fate.

But what many people question is why certain individuals who participate in keeping this thread alive refuse to provide any credible support for their claims that the property will be reopened, despite assurances from this site's owner and others who have proven to have some insights in the past that there are no such plans.

It is not my intent to antagonize you with this explanation of yesterday's post, but I would submit my right to participate here is every bit equal to yours.

As a gesture of my hope that your Friday will be filled with Adventurous Disney Magic, please enjoy these photographs taken in October of 2008, about a year after the club had closed:

 

[KungalooshAL]

I appreciate that. But, there are antagonists on this thread merely for the sake of a cheap thill, present company excepted....

I've stated my stance. Our good times in that specific building are done.

 

[mcjaco]

I appreciate that. But, there are antagonists on this thread merely for the sake of a cheap thill, present company excepted....

I've stated my stance. Our good times in that specific building are done.

An antagonist (from Greek ἀνταγωνιστής - antagonistes, "opponent, competitor, enemy, rival")[1] is a character, group of characters, or institution, that represents the opposition against which the protagonist must contend. In other words, 'A person, or a group of people who oppose the main character, or the main characters.'[2] In the classic style of story where in the action consists of a hero fighting a villain, the two can be regarded as protagonist and antagonist, respectively.[3]

The antagonist may also represent a major threat or obstacle to the main character by their very existence, without necessarily deliberately targeting him or her.

I think you're trying to use the word antagonist in attempts to avoid using troll. Either way, you'd be incorrect.

My entire point, much like MCKP's, is that there has never been, nor is there any reason to believe that AC is coming back. The fact that this thread is still going after this many years, is somewhat frightening that there are people that cannot seem to grasp this reality.

If was a "Let's remember the AC" thread, that would be one thing, but to pine on for years about saving something that is most certainly not coming back, looks ridiculous. And then to tell those of us trying to get you to see the light to get out of a public thread.....yeesh.

I don't jump on Disney boards too often anymore, much for the same reasons Jedi left. Too many threads like this one keep going, when there are far more interesting and current to be discussing. It's almost disheartening to pop on a Forum every few months and still see something as pathetic (for lack of a better term) as this, still being discussed.

 

[Master Yoda]

An antagonist (from Greek ἀνταγωνιστής - antagonistes, "opponent, competitor, enemy, rival")[1] is a character, group of characters, or institution, that represents the opposition against which the protagonist must contend. In other words, 'A person, or a group of people who oppose the main character, or the main characters.'[2] In the classic style of story where in the action consists of a hero fighting a villain, the two can be regarded as protagonist and antagonist, respectively.[3]

The antagonist may also represent a major threat or obstacle to the main character by their very existence, without necessarily deliberately targeting him or her.

I think you're trying to use the word antagonist in attempts to avoid using troll. Either way, you'd be incorrect.

My entire point, much like MCKP's, is that there has never been, nor is there any reason to believe that AC is coming back. The fact that this thread is still going after this many years, is somewhat frightening that there are people that cannot seem to grasp this reality.

If was a "Let's remember the AC" thread, that would be one thing, but to pine on for years about saving something that is most certainly not coming back, looks ridiculous. And then to tell those of us trying to get you to see the light to get out of a public thread.....yeesh.

I don't jump on Disney boards too often anymore, much for the same reasons Jedi left. Too many threads like this one keep going, when there are far more interesting and current to be discussing. It's almost disheartening to pop on a Forum every few months and still see something as pathetic (for lack of a better term) as this, still being discussed.

If you want to kill the beast the first step is to stop feeding the beast. I did a quick scan of about a month worth of posts in this thread and only a small handful could be considered "news" about the AC. The lion share of the remaining posts are from people asking the thread to eat a 12 gauge shell and the inevitable crap storm of posts defending the thread's existence that follows. If you just let it starve to death it will eventually go away.

 

[KungalooshAL]

Who cares about semantics?? The point is that there are those here who have an agenda that is not in line w/ those of us who hope for some kind of continuation w/ the AC franchise. Why not leave us be?? Is it a challenge to stay off a thread??

 

[Hakunamatata]

I have a question along the topic of "If the club reopened in some form or fashion".

I believe that quite a few of the avid AC fans here were regular attendees, either weekly or nightly ( I know that there were nightly attendees that lived local as they were referred to at the club on occasion but not sure if anyone here were locals). My question is that considering that the club obviously was closed because it was not profitable or profitable enough for Disney to run, if the club were to reopen in some form or fashion in a manner that it was profitable (either cover charge, dinner show venue along the lines of Hoop De Doo, or some other hard ticket entry fee) would that satisfy those who want the club reopened?

 

[Lee]

I have a question along the topic of "If the club reopened in some form or fashion".

I believe that quite a few of the avid AC fans here were regular attendees, either weekly or nightly ( I know that there were nightly attendees that lived local as they were referred to at the club on occasion but not sure if anyone here were locals). My question is that considering that the club obviously was closed because it was not profitable or profitable enough for Disney to run, if the club were to reopen in some form or fashion in a manner that it was profitable (either cover charge, dinner show venue along the lines of Hoop De Doo, or some other hard ticket entry fee) would that satisfy those who want the club reopened?

Yep. I'd take that.
I never lived close enough to be a "regular", but I always devoted a couple nights every trip to the Club.
Whatever it takes to get it back, in pretty much any form...I'm in.

 

[MichWolv]

I have a question along the topic of "If the club reopened in some form or fashion".

I believe that quite a few of the avid AC fans here were regular attendees, either weekly or nightly ( I know that there were nightly attendees that lived local as they were referred to at the club on occasion but not sure if anyone here were locals). My question is that considering that the club obviously was closed because it was not profitable or profitable enough for Disney to run, if the club were to reopen in some form or fashion in a manner that it was profitable (either cover charge, dinner show venue along the lines of Hoop De Doo, or some other hard ticket entry fee) would that satisfy those who want the club reopened?

I'd sure be happy about it.

 

[Did Knee]

I always thought the company's failure to cash in on the money making potential of this franchise was positively idiotic. My personal vision would have been to add an AC themed restaurant and a gift shop to the existing club.

Disney certainly know how to do characters in a restaurant setting. Add a quirky menu (Emu, ostrich and buffalo anyone?) and AC touches to the decor and the restaurant would be as destination in itself.

As for the gift shop, some AC artifacts (mugs, character costumes, colonel "dolls", etc) mixed with much of what you might find at Spencer's Gifts in the mall and some items you might find at pier one imports would have made a fascinating store that would have attracted shoppers.

All this would have made the AC more then profitable IMO.

 

[71jason]

I have a question along the topic of "If the club reopened in some form or fashion".

I believe that quite a few of the avid AC fans here were regular attendees, either weekly or nightly ( I know that there were nightly attendees that lived local as they were referred to at the club on occasion but not sure if anyone here were locals). My question is that considering that the club obviously was closed because it was not profitable or profitable enough for Disney to run, if the club were to reopen in some form or fashion in a manner that it was profitable (either cover charge, dinner show venue along the lines of Hoop De Doo, or some other hard ticket entry fee) would that satisfy those who want the club reopened?

Your argument is invalid. The AC made a modest profit (former VP Kevin Lansberry admitted this in the Sentinel at one point, and I've heard the same from bartenders, managers, door hosts, security...). It was also an integral part of PI, which as a whole made insane profits.

TDO thought that high end restaurants would be willing to lease the club spaces for $1 million a year plus 1/3 of their gross. This was stupid. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the Orlando area, WDW's market, and the restaurant business in general. Indeed, by closing the clubs, TDO destroyed what value the already empty buildings did have.

Disney rents were too high for the market--restuarants went elsewhere (west 192, I-Drive, 535, all of which are booming right now). Or, in some cases, the restaurants being courted were just never going to set up shop in the middle of a strip mall stroller thoroughfare, to protect their image. Again, it was managers with an Anaheim background thinking the same thing would work in Orlando.

As for dinner shows being more profitable than a bar, not sure where this meme got started (and you're hardly the first to suggest it), but alcohol has a lot higher margin than food. Requires fewer servers and "back of the house" personnel as well. And remember, the AC had a $25 cover charge (no single ticket admission). Lot cheaper and easier to get $50 out of a typical convention-goer at AC than a guest at Hoop.

While there were ways to modestly increase profitability--merch, as Did Knee mentioned, maybe going dark Sunday/Monday or cutting one of the characters--the only way to have made it much more profitable would have been to increase marketing for PI* and maybe freshen the whole Island up a bit.

Finally, a dinner show, or a quick serve in Adventureland, would not be "the Adventurers Club." The AC was, at its heart, a cocktail party. Not a dinner show, not a theme park ride. It depended on unsuspecting guests and alcohol for the humor to work.

* The last marketing push I remember, "Carpe PM", was in 2007. For the first half of that year, the place was as packed as it ever had been that whole decade.

 

[Hakunamatata]

Your argument is invalid. The AC made a modest profit (former VP Kevin Lansberry admitted this in the Sentinel at one point, and I've heard the same from bartenders, managers, door hosts, security...). It was also an integral part of PI, which as a whole made insane profits.

TDO thought that high end restaurants would be willing to lease the club spaces for $1 million a year plus 1/3 of their gross. This was stupid. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of the Orlando area, WDW's market, and the restaurant business in general. Indeed, by closing the clubs, TDO destroyed what value the already empty buildings did have.

Disney rents were too high for the market--restuarants went elsewhere (west 192, I-Drive, 535, all of which are booming right now). Or, in some cases, the restaurants being courted were just never going to set up shop in the middle of a strip mall stroller thoroughfare, to protect their image. Again, it was managers with an Anaheim background thinking the same thing would work in Orlando.

As for dinner shows being more profitable than a bar, not sure where this meme got started (and you're hardly the first to suggest it), but alcohol has a lot higher margin than food. Requires fewer servers and "back of the house" personnel as well. And remember, the AC had a $25 cover charge (no single ticket admission). Lot cheaper and easier to get $50 out of a typical convention-goer at AC than a guest at Hoop.

While there were ways to modestly increase profitability--merch, as Did Knee mentioned, maybe going dark Sunday/Monday or cutting one of the characters--the only way to have made it much more profitable would have been to increase marketing for PI* and maybe freshen the whole Island up a bit.

Finally, a dinner show, or a quick serve in Adventureland, would not be "the Adventurers Club." The AC was, at its heart, a cocktail party. Not a dinner show, not a theme park ride. It depended on unsuspecting guests and alcohol for the humor to work.

* The last marketing push I remember, "Carpe PM", was in 2007. For the first half of that year, the place was as packed as it ever had been that whole decade.

Although everything you said may be true, its covered in the portion of my original post "profitable enough". So back to my original question.

would that satisfy those who want the club reopened?

 

[MarkTwain]

I have a question along the topic of "If the club reopened in some form or fashion".

I believe that quite a few of the avid AC fans here were regular attendees, either weekly or nightly ( I know that there were nightly attendees that lived local as they were referred to at the club on occasion but not sure if anyone here were locals). My question is that considering that the club obviously was closed because it was not profitable or profitable enough for Disney to run, if the club were to reopen in some form or fashion in a manner that it was profitable (either cover charge, dinner show venue along the lines of Hoop De Doo, or some other hard ticket entry fee) would that satisfy those who want the club reopened?

Yep. I'd take that.
I never lived close enough to be a "regular", but I always devoted a couple nights every trip to the Club.
Whatever it takes to get it back, in pretty much any form...I'm in.

It certainly is amusing how often TDO is completely unwilling to tap into obvious sources of revenue. In the Muppets thread, people were literally begging Disney to open the Muppets What-not Workshop at DHS so they could buy a $200 puppet from them... and yet I somehow doubt I we'll we ever see it. Not to mention all the shuttered restaurants at the MK.

 

[71jason]

Although everything you said may be true, its covered in the portion of my original post "profitable enough". So back to my original question.

I think you need to define "profitable enough" then. Because I'm not seeing how a business that ran in the black isn't profitable enough, but an empty building that generates no income while still requring upkeep and utilities is.

Or perhaps you're thinking TDO behaves like a perfect actor in Econ 101?

 

[Hakunamatata]

I think you need to define "profitable enough" then. Because I'm not seeing how a business that ran in the black isn't profitable enough, but an empty building that generates no income while still requring upkeep and utilities is.

Or perhaps you're thinking TDO behaves like a perfect actor in Econ 101?

Profitable enough is determined by those who work for the organization who are in positions of responsibility. Profitable enough is not determined by those of us on message boards who wish the club would open back up.

 

[Scooter]

Profitable enough is determined by those who work for the organization who are in positions of responsibility. Profitable enough is not determined by those of us on message boards who wish the club would open back up.

Again....good point

 

[KungalooshAL]

I certainly understand the concepts of "profitable enough" or "opportunity cost". But I must also tell you that my primary motivation in traveling 470 miles to Disney would be to spend evenings in the marginally profitable AC and I would be spend my days in the very profitable parks....

 

[Mouse Detective]

Great write-up by Jason. We all know by now that Disney felt it could make more profit renting out the spaces for restaurants than it could by running clubs. That's the "not profitable" enough part of the club discussion.

But they were wrong. VERY wrong.

 

[Scooter]

I think you need to define "profitable enough" then. Because I'm not seeing how a business that ran in the black isn't profitable enough, but an empty building that generates no income while still requring upkeep and utilities is.

Or perhaps you're thinking TDO behaves like a perfect actor in Econ 101?

I once worked for a company that made a $12,000,000 profit one year.
The very next year the profit was only $9,000,000. They closed the place. Apparently it wasn't "Profitable enough" that year.