Run, Stitch! Recycled ride to be your fate

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
One thing I do find funny is that some people seem to think that SGE gets better with repeat visits, but Alien Encounter got worse with repeat visits? That just doesn't make any sense to me. IT'S THE SAME TECHNOLOGY. I just don't understand why some people feel this way.

But that's another topic for another day, I guess.
 

NemoRocks78

Seized
dxwwf3 said:
One thing I do find funny is that some people seem to think that SGE gets better with repeat visits, but Alien Encounter got worse with repeat visits? That just doesn't make any sense to me. IT'S THE SAME TECHNOLOGY. I just don't understand why some people feel this way.

But that's another topic for another day, I guess.
AE got better with repeat visits, IMO.... ;) :D
 

dxwwf3

Well-Known Member
NemoRocks said:
AE got better with repeat visits, IMO.... ;) :D

Oh man it did for me too. But the general opinion of people on here is that it didn't. And I find it odd that the general feeling of SGE is that it gets better with repeat visits. Maybe it could be that SGE was so bad the first time that it had nowhere to go but up (Cheap Timekeeper reference). Who knows?

BTW, when ever you did see it did you ever get the chamber that exits into Star Traders? I'm curious to know what that looks like.
 

NemoRocks78

Seized
dxwwf3 said:
Oh man it did for me too. But the general opinion of people on here is that it didn't. And I find it odd that the general feeling of SGE is that it gets better with repeat visits. Maybe it could be that SGE was so bad the first time that it had nowhere to go but up (Cheap Timekeeper reference). Who knows?

BTW, when ever you did see it did you ever get the chamber that exits into Star Traders? I'm curious to know what that looks like.
On all of my experiences on SGE so far I have yet to get the left chamber which exits into Mickey's Star Traders....hope to some day though.
 

HennieBogan1966

Account Suspended
Though it's been a few days

I'm forced to respond to the "over-hyped" merchandising ploy by Disney, that is being alleged with respect to this ride.

I'm curious. In HOW MANY locations throughout all parks and resorts can you purchase Mickey merchandise? Or for that matter, fab five merchandise. This ride ISN'T about selling merchandise ALONE. It's part of it, yes. To not do that would be to say, I'm going to sell cars for a living, but not offer service plans, or repair services. It doesn't make sense not to. It's called good business. People have got to get over the fact that Disney first and foremost is a BUSINESS. It's about putting butts in the seats. Imagineers don't sit around thinking aloud, "How can we market and merchandise this new character?" I know, let's build a 100 Million dollar ride, that'll do it. I'm sure that wasn't the case with a ride like Mission Space. Has that resulted in an onslaught of Space Shuttle merchandising sales? Has HP seen a rise in sales since the open of the ride, that can be tied DIRECTLY to the ride opening?

You're either going to be a fan of an attraction, or you're not. And that's okay. Every ride isn't built with EVERY age group in mind. Please keep that in mind when you board an attraction/ride. But Disney sure does offer more than ANY OTHER theme park can.
 

Indy95

New Member
Ah, another healthy debate:

HennieBogan1966 said:
This ride ISN'T about selling merchandise ALONE.
Could have fooled me. If what you are saying is true, then why is there a complete lack of story for the attraction?

HennieBogan1966 said:
It's part of it, yes. To not do that would be to say, I'm going to sell cars for a living, but not offer service plans, or repair services. It doesn't make sense not to. It's called good business. People have got to get over the fact that Disney first and foremost is a BUSINESS.
Then you'll have to show me the anecdote where Walt shows ANY hint of enthusiasm for "merchandising potential" in such CLASSIC and TIMELESS attractions as "Small World," "The Enchanted Tiki Room," or "The Haunted Mansion." Perhaps you've heard of them? They're ONLY the most polular attractions of all time, AND they are the attractions that are the BASIS of the entire theme parks division!

So please point me in the direction of the "Carousel of Progress" gift shop and I would be happy to agree with you.

HennieBogan1966 said:
It's about putting butts in the seats.
Yes! But this is done by building attractions that capture the public's interest and imagination to make them WANT TO VISIT THE PARK. THIS IS HOW THE PARKS MAKE THEIR MONEY. Not by throwing in a half-hearted merchandising opportunity cleverly disguised as a show. The public isn't stupid. They can see right through SGE right down to the corporate greediness that greenlighted it. I mean, even Eisner hated it, for crying out loud!

HennieBogan1966 said:
Imagineers don't sit around thinking aloud, "How can we market and merchandise this new character?"
No, but the incompetent nickel-nursing MBAs in management do. And THEY are the ones pulling the strings right now, NOT the Imagineers.

HennieBogan1966 said:
You're either going to be a fan of an attraction, or you're not. And that's okay. Every ride isn't built with EVERY age group in mind.
Except almost every single ride that Walt Disney approved to build and based his entire business on, of course. And most, if not all of the attractions that keep people COMING BACK to Disney. Have you ever heard of Pirates of the Caribbean? Or the Haunted Mansion? I could have sworn that they WERE built with every age group in mind. Oh yeah, that's right! They just HAPPEN to be two of the most popular attractions on the planet! And oh yeah, they're also THE ATTRACTIONS THAT MAKE THE MOST MONEY FOR DISNEY! Funny how that works, isn't it?
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
StitchFan, why do you keep talking about "E-tickets"? You've mentioned them a dozen times in this thread...you aren't of the impression that a small show like SGE is an E-ticket...are you?

AEfx
 

HennieBogan1966

Account Suspended
Well Indy

So you're going to tell me that Walt Disney himself, (of course I'm sure you had personal conversations with him), would NEVER have tried to sell ANY merchandise which tied in directly with his attractions? You expect me and the buying public to believe that? I wonder when the first shop opened in Disneyland? And what did it offer?

You mention PoC, as an example. Well, let's see. Last I checked, there's quite a selection of merchandise right outside the attraction. As well, there are shops carrying HM, Peter Pan's Flight, Snow White's Scary Adventure, etc. etc., merchandise throughout the MK. Same with Splash Mountain. Lots of merchandise available at that attraction as well.

You say there's no story in the attraction (SGE). Well, wouldn't think you would necessarily need to re-create the movie in the attraction, seeing as the movie did several hundred million dollars in box office receipts. MOST people go into the attraction already familiar with the back story.

Again, to believe that Walt Disney was intelligent enough to create all he did, but NEVER give thought to merchandising/moving product along with it, is a bit insulting to his legacy I beleive.

Show me an athlete or movie star these days that doesn't use crass self-promotion in order to make some extra coin. It's called business. I fully expect Disney to continue to find ways to make money. If they didn't, they wouldn't have been around as long as they have.

To say that patrons come ONLY for the rides and nothing else, I believe, also does Disney a great disservice as well. So you're saying they could take out ALL shops that offer merchandise, and NOT lose any business? Is that what you are getting at? You're against cross-merchandising? Against using attractions to help move merchandise, and visa/versa?
 

Indy95

New Member
Ah, excellent! A timely and well-organized response! And so, since I am also a timely and well-organized kind of guy, let's get to the rebuttal.

Hennie- Though I see where you are coming from on this subject, it seems as though you have created points that I have never made. But that will come with time. Right now, let us see what you have said, shall we?

HennieBogan1966 said:
So you're going to tell me that Walt Disney himself, (of course I'm sure you had personal conversations with him), would NEVER have tried to sell ANY merchandise which tied in directly with his attractions? You expect me and the buying public to believe that?
Not at all, simply because I never made that point. I was directly answering your statement that said "it simply doesn't make sense not to" (referring to selling merchandise for an attraction). I just commented that Walt did not hawk merchandise when he felt it was unnecessary with some attractions such as "Carousel of Progress" or "The Enchanted Tiki Room." So therefore, I was saying that Disney has had a PROVEN track record of POPULAR atttractions that did not sell merchandise. So, not only does this "make sense," but some of the more popular attractions in the world have used this strategy. At no time did I say that he did this for every attraction.

HennieBogan1966 said:
You mention PoC, as an example. Well, let's see. Last I checked, there's quite a selection of merchandise right outside the attraction.
No doubt, in fact I have bought a great percentage of it! But if you read my post again, you will see that I did NOT mention POTC as an attraction that does not sell merchandise, but rather to your comment that "every attraction isn't built with every age group in mind." So I do not know from where you got this statement of mine.

HennieBogan1966 said:
As well, there are shops carrying HM, Peter Pan's Flight, Snow White's Scary Adventure, etc. etc., merchandise throughout the MK. Same with Splash Mountain. Lots of merchandise available at that attraction as well.
Indeed, except Splash Mountain was not conceived or built in Walt's time. Again, I was stating that Walt did not sell merchandise for EVERY attraction he oversaw, NOT that he never sold merchandise. Current Disney management, on the other hand, is a completely different story. They would sell anything they could get their hands on if it meant an increased profit for the next fiscal quarter.

HennieBogan1966 said:
You say there's no story in the attraction (SGE). Well, wouldn't think you would necessarily need to re-create the movie in the attraction, seeing as the movie did several hundred million dollars in box office receipts. MOST people go into the attraction already familiar with the back story.
Perhaps I phrased my response incorrectly. I was not talking about the "backstory" for SGE, but rather the story for the attraction itself. I was commenting on your statement that "(SGE) was not about selling merchandise alone." I was saying that, due to the abhorrent lack of any kind of effort in terms of the attraction's story direction, this attraction WAS about selling merchandise alone. Nobody can seriously think that, with what Disney has accomplished, management went into SGE thinking "let's build the best attraction possible." So if not, then why did they build the attraction in the first place? Two words: STITCH MERCHANDISE!

HennieBogan1966 said:
Again, to believe that Walt Disney was intelligent enough to create all he did, but NEVER give thought to merchandising/moving product along with it, is a bit insulting to his legacy I beleive.
I agree whole-heartedly. So it's a good thing I didn't say anything to the contrary.

HennieBogan1966 said:
Show me an athlete or movie star these days that doesn't use crass self-promotion in order to make some extra coin. It's called business. I fully expect Disney to continue to find ways to make money. If they didn't, they wouldn't have been around as long as they have.
But the point that I was making was, Disney makes its money in the theme park division by building revolutionary attractions, which arouses the public's interest, curiosity, and imagination, and not by building attractions whose sole purpose was to be a pre-show for a series of gift shops.

HennieBogan1966 said:
To say that patrons come ONLY for the rides and nothing else, I believe, also does Disney a great disservice as well. So you're saying they could take out ALL shops that offer merchandise, and NOT lose any business? Is that what you are getting at? You're against cross-merchandising? Against using attractions to help move merchandise, and visa/versa?
No, but I AM against cross-merchandising being MORE IMPORTANT than the attractions in management's eyes! INNOVATION SPELLS FINANCIAL SUCCESS. I'm sure anyone who has taken business courses will recognize that important phrase.


Walt Disney said that everything he and his talent created was fueled by a sense of curiosity, confidence, courage and constancy. Walt always said, "I believe in being an innovator." Disney's lack of innovation in recent years, however, has compromised not only a Disney core value but the financial stability of the company.


In everything that Walt Disney created with his team of artists, he dared, he risked, and he never blamed. He also never imposed limitations upon artists, but rather created a safe haven in which the artist's imagination could thrive and create the seemingly impossible, subsequently exciting and driving Disney audiences through the front gates of its theme parks. This, ultimately, is what fueled Disney's past financial successes, as well as its future successes, which management now coasts upon and arguably is driving into the ground.

THAT was what I was arguing. I look forward to your response! :wave:
 

HennieBogan1966

Account Suspended
Well Indy,

Here's what I would tell you. You can't possibly think that Disney could survive without taking the opportunity to sell merchandise, thru the use of an attraction. I still do not agree that SGE was built with this purpose in mind. They could sell the merchandise, and were selling it, long before the attraction opened. So, your point, to may way of viewing it, is moot. In having worked for the Disney Store during the release of the movie and afterwards, and my Wife still working there, I can tell you that the Lilo & Stitch (mostly Stitch), is very very popular. As well, we took vacation during this time to WDW, and can tell you that the merchandise was very hard to find, but when you could locate a shop that carried it, it was usually sold out. So again, to say that this move is merely to move merchandise doesn't hold water. Sales were doing well prior to the attraction. Having the attraction will only enhance that opportunity for Disney.

As for the inner workings of the Imagineers and accountants that work at Disney, and what they were saying during the refurb of this attraction to SGE, I can't speak to that. I know that A LOT of people on this board TRY to speak for them, with NO direct knowledge of the decision-making, or budgeting issues for Disney. Which is why I don't attempt to knock what they do in those regards.

My problem here is that some people, (I'm not saying YOU), want to throw money at issues, thinking that is always the answer. IT IS NOT!!!!! I'm sure that the storyline could be improved. BUt let's examine what they MAY have been up against. If there was a deadline for opening the attraction, then you have to surmise that certain compromises were made in order to meet those deadlines. And I think we can both agree that if you read some comments on threads related to its opening, there was a lot of shall we say, "discussion" about them needing to open this attraction sooner rather than later?

It's like when the dates were announced for the rehab of IASW. I'm sure there were a lot of folks who said, Man, a whole year? Why do they need a year. Well, if you again were to read the seemingly endless threads on how Disney needed to rehab this attraction, that question answers itself. .

So, in short what I am saying is that it seems they're d.......ed, if they do, and d.....ed if they don't when it comes to Disney. Some people (alot) are NEVER satisfied. When they spend a lot of money on something, the complaint is they overspent, and if they spend too little, well you get the drift.

And these are people who CLAIM to love Disney.

Indy, I indeed view you as a VERY worthy opponent in the world of debate. I more than welcome your comments, and appreciate your politeness. I look forward to more debates between the two of us, and hopefully we will agree more than disagree.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom