Rian Johnson still in the mix for new Star Wars Movies

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’ll bow out. No sense in going down The same roads again.

Adieu

 

[lazyboy97o]

TFA was a retread, but audiences gobbled it up. Based on this, and the other movies I mentioned, audiences respond positively to the familiar.

Then people complain because Boba Fett is yet another series set on Tatooine.

The griping over TLJ means Disney is less likely to take risks and give us truly new experiences in the Star Wars universe, and we're all the worse off for it.

The Last Jedi was not just a retread but an overly simplified one at that. With the wave of a hand it completely did away with all of the various factions so that it could more easily set up another Empire capable of striking back by chasing down the heroes instead of dealing with the messier fallout of a small terrorist state wiping out the Republic’s capitol. Even the betrayal for money is simplified over betraying a friend for the promised safety of others.

 

[erasure fan1]

The griping over TLJ means Disney is less likely to take risks and give us truly new experiences in the Star Wars universe, and we're all the worse off for it.

The problem is, episode 8 was not the time to try a truly new experience. The sequels should have been a celebration of what came before it. And when done the right way would have given you a host of new characters to, wait for it, tell new stories with new experiences. Because of Disneys arrogance and lack of planning, that's why we are all worse off for it. I've said it before, I don't blame Rian. He made the movie he wanted. It was up to Kennedy to have a vision for the sequels. Instead she lets JJ kill Solo and not have Luke in 7. Then she lets Rian run rough shot all over 7. This all leads to what could arguably be one of the stupidest decisions in all of movie history. Not getting Han, Luke and Leia back together. You shouldn't blame the the griping, you should blame Disney and Kennedy. Their lack of planning is why theatrical star wars is all but dead for the foreseeable future.

 

[Disney Irish]

Good call…

Contractually “in talks”? Sure…I can see that.

But what’s the odds on that? We’re 5 years out…has a love for his “reinvention” grown? Or have they kicked dirt on it and gone in another direction?

All 3 Movies - actually - If we’re honest.

Well given that Rey, Kylo, and older Chewie are still walk around characters in the Parks, and that Captain Phasma is still seen from time-to-time, indicates they aren't kicking dirt on any of the sequel movies.

They may not be continuing with that story line but it doesn't mean they trying to wipe it away from existence like they are with some other projects.

As for Rian, I would put it at 50/50 at this point. Given enough separation (and him doing other successful projects like the Knives Out franchise) will tip the odds in his favor.

 

[erasure fan1]

They may not be continuing with that story line but it doesn't mean they trying to wipe it away from existence like they are with some other projects.

Of course they aren't kicking dirt on it. They will NEVER admit that they missed the mark with the sequels.

 

[Professortango1]

The Last Jedi was not just a retread but an overly simplified one at that. With the wave of a hand it completely did away with all of the various factions so that it could more easily set up another Empire capable of striking back by chasing down the heroes instead of dealing with the messier fallout of a small terrorist state wiping out the Republic’s capitol. Even the betrayal for money is simplified over betraying a friend for the promised safety of others.

Do you mean The Force Awakens?

I too was a bit dissapointed that JJ just tee'd up a fully formed First Order identical to The Empire rather than dealing in small terrorist uprisings.

 

[Disney Irish]

Of course they aren't kicking dirt on it. They will NEVER admit that they missed the mark with the sequels.

Well for "missing the marking" they sure made a lot of money off them and continue to do so, which a lot of fans don't like to admit.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Do you mean The Force Awakens?

I too was a bit dissapointed that JJ just tee'd up a fully formed First Order identical to The Empire rather than dealing in small terrorist uprisings.

No, I do not. It’s not well explained, but the First Order in The Force Awakens is a very small organization. They are nowhere near the Empire. It’s not the Republic fighting them because they don’t see them as a concern. The Last Jedi turned the First Order into the Super Empire, in a matter of days they suddenly have a level of control over the Galaxy that the Empire never had at its height with even Outer Rim territories that would rebuff the Empire acquiescing to their dominance.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Of course they aren't kicking dirt on it. They will NEVER admit that they missed the mark with the sequels.

…it’s not like Disney isn’t notorious for using park elements well past their shelf life either

They built the lands around 2 movies…one was dull and obtuse/cynical…the other bombed.

But that was baked into the build. Their using bad walkaround characters that correspond isn’t a “show of confidence”

Rey ain’t coming back. There’s no point.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well for "missing the marking" they sure made a lot of money off them and continue to do so, which a lot of fans don't like to admit.

…I really gotta unwatch this thread.

You Mean a -37% tank followed by a -20% tank in successive movies in and era where movies were making increasing amounts of smack for nothing?

That kinda “making money”

How’d product sales do?

Just the details that may actually tell the story.

Yikes…I feel like bill Murray here

Namaste

 

[Disney Irish]

…I really gotta unwatch this thread.

You Mean a -37% tank followed by a -20% tank in successive movies in and era where movies were making increasing amounts of smack for nothing?

That kinda “making money”

How’d product sales do?

Just the details that may actually tell the story.

Yikes…I feel like bill Murray here

Namaste

Do I think they made the kind of money they were expecting, no. But do I think they were happy they made over $4B for the 3 sequel movies against their combined $837M budget, yeah I do. They didn't lose money and they made a profit.

We can argue all day about the various different what ifs like "what could have been if they did x, y, or z", or "what money they left on the table", or whatever else. But the point is just the 3 sequel movies themselves made quite a bit of money for the company even when you take out marketing costs.

We can get into the minute details yet again if you want, but I think we've literally gone from here to moon and back multiple times with how many times we've gone around on this discussion. So lets just end it here, as you said you got to unwatch this thread.

 

[LSLS]

Do I think they made the kind of money they were expecting, no. But do I think they were happy they made over $4B for the 3 sequel movies against their combined $837M budget, yeah I do. They didn't lose money and they made a profit.

We can argue all day about the various different what ifs like "what could have been if they did x, y, or z", or "what money they left on the table", or whatever else. But the point is just the 3 sequel movies themselves made quite a bit of money for the company even when you take out marketing costs.

We can get into the minute details yet again if you want, but I think we've literally gone from here to moon and back multiple times with how many times we've gone around on this discussion. So lets just end it here, as you said you got to unwatch this thread.

They made profit, but I'm not sure they offset the cost of purchasing the studios with those movies which is shocking. It cost a heck of a lot more that $837 million to make those movies (isn't the calculation like 2.5 times that cost or so), and they only bring home what, half that $4 billion after the theaters get their take?

But I have 0 doubt he still wants to make his trilogy. I don't think the issue with it being shelved is on his end.

 

[erasure fan1]

Do I think they made the kind of money they were expecting, no. But do I think they were happy they made over $4B for the 3 sequel movies against their combined $837M budget, yeah I do. They didn't lose money and they made a profit.

The movies I'm sure made money. Were they happy with it? I guess they were happy enough to kill all theatrical star wars. A true success to Disney is a merchandising juggernaut. The sequels were supposed to be a jumping off point for these characters. But it's been anything but.

 

[Disney Irish]

They made profit, but I'm not sure they offset the cost of purchasing the studios with those movies which is shocking. It cost a heck of a lot more that $837 million to make those movies (isn't the calculation like 2.5 times that cost or so), and they only bring home what, half that $4 billion after the theaters get their take?

But I have 0 doubt he still wants to make his trilogy. I don't think the issue with it being shelved is on his end.

Wow, talk about moving the goal post. Since when was the goal of the 3 sequel films specifically to payoff the entire acquisition? Its not like that is the only Star Wars content released post-acquisition, and its not like they aren't making money from other ways from Star Wars or LFL in general.

And yes while they didn't take home all that $4B it does go toward determining the profitability of the studio. Back in 2018 CNBC declared that even prior to Ep9 that since acquiring LFL for $4.05B it had already recouped that money.

 

[Disney Irish]

The movies I'm sure made money. Were they happy with it? I guess they were happy enough to kill all theatrical star wars. A true success to Disney is a merchandising juggernaut. The sequels were supposed to be a jumping off point for these characters. But it's been anything but.

There is a difference in being happy with the money made, and being happy with the creative direction of the content. One is financial, the other is creative.

I think we can all agree that creatively Disney/LFL decided to go in a different direction, as we can plainly see. However that doesn't mean they weren't happy they recouped the cost of the films and made profit, we can say that due to the fact the sequel films didn't lose any money.

Now I'm not stating they where jumping into any money bin here like Scrooge, but its not like they were crying either.

Has Star Wars been a financial success for Disney, I would say yeah given overall they haven't lost money from it and that is even with the loss they took from Solo. Now has it been a creative success, no by no means has it been a creative success and that is clear. I think those two things have to be separated.

 

[Wendy Pleakley]

Are we still doing the thing where people claim the SW sequels didn't do well, despite TFA earning over $2 billion and being one of the biggest movies of all time?

It's also always worth noting that purchasing Lucasfilm allows Disney to build Star Wars theme park attractions without paying royalties or having to get approval from George Lucas. Having Star Wars means driving viewers to Disney+ as well. That service owes a lot of its quick success to the Mandalorian, it's safe to say.

They also own Industrial Light and Magic. They make money every time another studio uses their services AND the special effects for their big movies (i.e. every movie Disney releases) are now done in house, meaning they save tens of millions of dollars in effects costs on every film.

 

[LSLS]

Wow, talk about moving the goal post. Since when was the goal of the 3 sequel films specifically to payoff the entire acquisition? Its not like that is the only Star Wars content released post-acquisition, and its not like they aren't making money from other ways from Star Wars or LFL in general.

And yes while they didn't take home all that $4B it does go toward determining the profitability of the studio. Back in 2018 CNBC declared that even prior to Ep9 that since acquiring LFL for $4.05B it had already recouped that money.

That wasn't the goal (truth be told, I thought it was for $2 billion). But I don't think they came close to their goal either. As many have mentioned already, I don't think it's a coincidence they axed all movie releases for Star Wars. I also don't think it's fair to use that $4 billion as your number when almost half of that comes from the first movie before the divisive one. I also think the success of the shows in bringing some of the disenfranchised back is something they have 0 desire to mess with. Do I think it's fair to pin everything on him? Absolutely not. But I do think it's tough to argue that wasn't a big factor.

 

[Disney Irish]

That wasn't the goal (truth be told, I thought it was for $2 billion). But I don't think they came close to their goal either. As many have mentioned already, I don't think it's a coincidence they axed all movie releases for Star Wars. I also don't think it's fair to use that $4 billion as your number when almost half of that comes from the first movie before the divisive one. I also think the success of the shows in bringing some of the disenfranchised back is something they have 0 desire to mess with. Do I think it's fair to pin everything on him? Absolutely not. But I do think it's tough to argue that wasn't a big factor.

As I had just posted a bit ago, there has to be a separation of financial success of the studio vs creative success of the studio. Outside of Solo none of the Star Wars films under Disney bombed. That shows overall Star Wars content under Disney has been a "financial" success for the studio, is it what they wanted to make overall probably not but that is a different discussion. Creatively though, and this is where personal opinions cloud the discussion, we can say objectively they haven't been a "creative" success.

I know its hard for a lot of fans to separate the two, as because in most fans minds because they weren't creatively successful that must mean they weren't financially successful. However it has to be done because there is a difference.

Creatively though, yes I agree it caused the Studio to change direction because of the fan backlash. As you pointed out should Rian be completely blamed for it, probably not solely, but his creative decisions didn't help it either. And I say all that even as someone who actually liked all 3 of the sequel films.

 

[Disney Irish]

Are we still doing the thing where people claim the SW sequels didn't do well, despite TFA earning over $2 billion and being one of the biggest movies of all time?

It's also always worth noting that purchasing Lucasfilm allows Disney to build Star Wars theme park attractions without paying royalties or having to get approval from George Lucas. Having Star Wars means driving viewers to Disney+ as well. That service owes a lot of its quick success to the Mandalorian, it's safe to say.

They also own Industrial Light and Magic. They make money every time another studio uses their services AND the special effects for their big movies (i.e. every movie Disney releases) are now done in house, meaning they save tens of millions of dollars in effects costs on every film.

Unfortunately its hard for so many fans to separate out the "financial" from the "creative". Too many think because there is clear creative failures with Disney Star Wars that it must mean its also a financial failure, despite what the actual financials are.

 

[lazyboy97o]

As I had just posted a bit ago, there has to be a separation of financial success of the studio vs creative success of the studio. Outside of Solo none of the Star Wars films under Disney bombed. That shows overall Star Wars content under Disney has been a "financial" success for the studio, is it what they wanted to make overall probably not but that is a different discussion. Creatively though, and this is where personal opinions cloud the discussion, we can say objectively they haven't been a "creative" success.

I know its hard for a lot of fans to separate the two, as because in most fans minds because they weren't creatively successful that must mean they weren't financially successful. However it has to be done because there is a difference.

Creatively though, yes I agree it caused the Studio to change direction because of the fan backlash. As you pointed out should Rian be completely blamed for it, probably not solely, but his creative decisions didn't help it either. And I say all that even as someone who actually liked all 3 of the sequel films.

Disney has a long, established history of killing profitable projects because they were not profitable enough. Why is Star Wars so different?