Reopening Disneyland

[cmwade77]

I have been to Epcot, and I honestly could not remember. And I did scroll through a video to double check before suggesting, but obviously I must have skipped that scene as I skimmed through it.

Once corrected I did admit to that.

But because I made a mistake does that mean Disney can’t do more?

But does Disney need to do more? Or should we be striving to move on to a point where color truly doesn't matter by simply not referring to groups by race, etc.? in other words stop dividing ourselves out based on arbitrary things like race, religion, etc.

I truly think by focusing so much on it, we are actually making the problems worse, not better.

 

[Disney Analyst]

But does Disney need to do more? Or should we be striving to move on to a point where color truly doesn't matter by simply not referring to groups by race, etc.? in other words stop dividing ourselves out based on arbitrary things like race, religion, etc.

I truly think by focusing so much on it, we are actually making the problems worse, not better.

You can’t ignore race or culture. These differences need to be embraced and celebrated. Perhaps if we lived in a society where all have been truly equal for decades you could consider it, but we are not there yet.

Representation matters.

 

[October82]

But does Disney need to do more? Or should we be striving to move on to a point where color truly doesn't matter by simply not referring to groups by race, etc.? in other words stop dividing ourselves out based on arbitrary things like race, religion, etc.

I truly think by focusing so much on it, we are actually making the problems worse, not better.

Here is a nice and even-handed take on this issue. I would encourage you to give it a read. One basic problem is that without acknowledging race, there is no way to talk cogently about racism and its legacy. We live in a multi-racial, multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society, and we should be careful not to erase our diversity.

@Disney Analyst put it really well. Representation matters. And given the high profile that Disney has, Disney has a responsibility to embrace and celebrate differences.

 

[October82]

To be fair, we started out saying, “the variant first-discovered in South Africa,” but that’s really freakin cumbersome and, honestly, condescending. It’s already complicated enough explaining how these vaccines work to people; if we don’t limit our condescension, some people are turned off and check-out. We can’t afford that. So, “South African variant” is fine and no more racist than “South African wine.”

In my experience (as a scientist), the problem with many epidemiologists is that, per their training, they’ve been talking for years about a pandemic that would kill millions. Their job is to study such worst-case scenarios so we can be prepared (certainly a worthy endeavor but not one suitable for public consumption. I don’t really need or want to know how many nukes N. Korea has, either). So they feel vindicated now and feel it is their turn to continue sharing these worst-case scenarios now that they can get on TV.

The public health experts, who are trying to actually end the pandemic, understand the dangers of this negativity. The average person needs a bit of information about the vaccines (especially: is it safe? How do I get it?) and then optimism.

“Go get these shots that are a bit unpleasant and we will still be stuck at home in 3 years” is not helpful in any way.

Most people who work in a lab have no business appearing on TV. Let someone who understands science but who is down-to-earth and telegenic break it down with Anderson or Rachel. This is where Dr. Fauci excels.

Also speaking as a scientist (but not a biologist/health scientist), I would only add that we need to do a better job of training all scientists in communicating with the public and policymakers. Not every scientist should be on TV, but plenty should be talking to local reporters, blogging, etc. and those people should be prepared to do that in an effective way.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Also speaking as a scientist (but not a biologist/health scientist), I would only add that we need to do a better job of training all scientists in communicating with the public and policymakers. Not every scientist should be on TV, but plenty should be talking to local reporters, blogging, etc. and those people should be prepared to do that in an effective way.

Part of the problem is that K-12 teachers are taught how to teach. Scientists and college science professors are not. I went to grad school wanting to be a college science professor (which I am) and was never taught how to teach. Luckily for me, my undergraduate school placed heavily emphasis on presenting scientific information, so I’m pretty good at it.

My professors at said grad school (which is a member of the Ivy League) were not exactly spectacular teachers. They were skilled in the lab and at grant writing, however...

 

[October82]

Part of the problem is that K-12 teachers are taught how to teach. Scientists and college science professors are not. I went to grad school wanting to be a college science professor (which I am) and was never taught how to teach. Luckily for me, my undergraduate school placed heavily emphasis on presenting scientific information, so I’m pretty good at it.

My professors at said grad school (which is a member of the Ivy League) were not exactly spectacular teachers. They were skilled in the lab and at grant writing, however...

Our experiences are similar, but I don't think it negates the reality that scientists need training in both how to teach in classrooms, and how to interact with the press and policymakers. There's nothing mysterious about a system that rewards grant writing and (sometimes) lab but not communication skills leading to a public that distrusts scientists and doesn't understand what they do.

For what it's worth, we do take this issue seriously and offer (still limited) opportunities at my current institution. It's too little and too late, but it's a step in the right direction.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Our experiences are similar, but I don't think it negates the reality that scientists need training in both how to teach in classrooms, and how to interact with the press and policymakers. There's nothing mysterious about a system that rewards grant writing and (sometimes) lab but not communication skills leading to a public that distrusts scientists and doesn't understand what they do.

For what it's worth, we do take this issue seriously and offer (still limited) opportunities at my current institution. It's too little and too late, but it's a step in the right direction.

The extent of it at my institution is that tenure requires some level of public outreach. But, that doesn’t mean everyone does it well. And those who received tenure 10 or 20 years ago are a bit out of practice...

 

[Robbiem]

What I find absolutely hysterical is that suddenly in 2021 it's now completely acceptable to notate the geographical location of the Covid variants without being called a racist. The UK Variant. The South Africa Variant. The Brazilian Variant. All of those things are true and factual, and should be stated as such.

But in 2020 if anyone dared to say that Covid started in China, or even specifically the city Wuhan, they were branded a racist and a horrible person who would never be allowed to sit at the cool kids table in the cafeteria.

China virus. UK variant. Tell me what the difference is again?

I agree there are definitely double standards on some of these things. Most of these variants have been found in one country but may well have originated in another one, for example the ‘UK’ and ‘south african’ variants were both identified because those countries did genetic testing and research which other countries don’t do so using those terms is actually just as, if not more racist than ‘China virus’ as you’re labelling the discoverer not the source which might or might not be the same

 

[TP2000]

The pressure is intensifying on Governor Newsom to reverse his decision on California theme parks waiting until the Yellow Tier to reopen...

California theme parks could be last to return in U.S. as New York sets reopening date

The reopening of New York amusement parks leaves Disneyland, Universal Studios Hollywood and other California theme parks wondering when they can reopen.

www.ocregister.com

California theme parks could be the last to return from coronavirus pandemic closures in the United States now that New York has allowed theme parks to reopen and amusement parks in Illinois, Michigan and Massachusetts have set reopening dates.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo announced that outdoor amusement parks can reopen on April 9 with 33% attendance capacity limits and a host of “new normal” COVID-19 health and safety requirements — mandatory face coverings, social distancing, temperature checks and enhanced cleaning protocols.

The reopening of New York amusement parks leaves Disneyland, Universal Studios Hollywood, Knott’s Berry Farm, Six Flags Magic Mountain, SeaWorld San Diego, Legoland California and other California theme parks wondering when they can reopen.

“We are thrilled our sister park Legoland New York will be able to celebrate its grand opening this year now that Gov. Cuomo has announced the reopening of family attractions, including outdoor theme parks,” Legoland California president Kurt Stocks said in a statement. “We anticipate Gov. Newsom to follow suit and announce similar dates for the responsible reopening of theme parks in California allowing Legoland California Resort to reopen its gates to our guests soon.”

 

[TP2000]

I agree there are definitely double standards on some of these things. Most of these variants have been found in one country but may well have originated in another one, for example the ‘UK’ and ‘south african’ variants were both identified because those countries did genetic testing and research which other countries don’t do so using those terms is actually just as, if not more racist than ‘China virus’ as you’re labelling the discoverer not the source which might or might not be the same

We had the Hong Kong Flu, which was a real killer and is a name still used in sentences among the generation that caught it.

The Spanish Flu is used regularly in even polite, enlightened circles like PBS Documentaries. Even though it didn't come from Spain.

Now we have the UK Variant and Brazilian Variant and South Africa Variant of COVID-19.

But don't dare call it the Wuhan Flu or mention it came from China or else you are racist? I've never understood that.

 

[PiratesMansion]

We had the Hong Kong Flu, which was a real killer and is a name still used in sentences among the generation that caught it.

The Spanish Flu is used regularly in even polite, enlightened circles like PBS Documentaries. Even though it didn't come from Spain.

Now we have the UK Variant and Brazilian Variant and South Africa Variant of COVID-19.

But don't dare call it the Wuhan Flu or mention it came from China or else you are racist? I've never understood that.

Are Spanish people actively experiencing racial discrimination and mistreatment because of the Spanish flu? Are British people experiencing discrimination because of the UK variant? No.

Are people of Asian descent experiencing racial discrimination because of the things you just named? YES.

That's the difference.

 

[TP2000]

Are Spanish people actively experiencing racial discrimination and mistreatment because of the Spanish flu? Are British people experiencing discrimination because of the UK variant? No.

Are people of Asian descent experiencing racial discrimination because of the things you just named? YES.

That's the difference.

Okay, but what kind of an idiot do you have to be to blame some random person of any Asian descent (and that's about 3 or 4 Billion people) for the flu that started in Wuhan, China?

I mean honestly, those types of idiots are going to be bigots regardless of what you call a virus.

I have a strong hunch those people will still discriminate against Asians in 2021 just as they did in 2019.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Okay, but what kind of an idiot do you have to be to blame some random person of Asian descent (and that's about 3 or 4 Billion people) for the flu that started in Wuhan, China?

I mean honestly, those types of people are going to be idiots regardless of what you call a virus.

I have a strong hunch those people will still discriminate against Asians in 2021 just as they did in 2019.

While there has been discrimination against Asians in America from the moment the first people of Asian descent arrived, and there was also infamously the Japanese internment camps during WWII, it's pretty clear that there's been a marked increase in discrimination and hate crimes against Asians since covid hit. Not helped by # 45's word choice, because he, y'know, has a history of scapegoating people. Here's one person's experience: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...sm-against-asian-americans-column/6761944002/

Plenty of other sources too, all linking it to the pandemic originating in China, sometimes citing Trump's words:

Attacks Against Asian Americans Spike Amid COVID-19 Pandemic

“This is unacceptable, this is un-American."

www.baynews9.com

A Tense Lunar New Year for the Bay Area After Attacks on Asian-Americans (Published 2021)

The attacks have renewed fears over a wave of anti-Asian violence and harassment that was spurred earlier in the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

Asian American Experiences of Racism during COVID-19

Dr. Sumie Okazaki, NYU Steinhardt professor of Applied Psychology, discusses the impact of COVID-19 on the racism that Asian Americans face, as well as resources for how parents and other adults can help Asian American children and youth.

steinhardt.nyu.edu

America’s long history of scapegoating its Asian citizens

When leaders call COVID-19 the “China virus,” it harkens back to decades of state-sanctioned discrimination against Asian Americans.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Anger And Fear As Asian American Seniors Targeted In Bay Area Attacks

The assaults have prompted some businesses to close early, while volunteers have set up protective escorts for older residents.

www.npr.org

Biden has started an effort to combat it: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bid...-asian-americans-amid-covid/story?id=75490177

I think one thing just about everyone can agree on is that there are an awful lot of idiots in this country right now, which is certainly not being helped by all of the stress everyone has experienced over the last year. But nevertheless, discrimination against Asians has increased in the past year and is a very real problem right now.

 

[TP2000]

While there has been discrimination against Asians in America from the moment the first people of Asian descent arrived, and there was also infamously the Japanese internment camps during WWII, it's pretty clear that there's been a marked increase in discrimination and hate crimes against Asians since covid hit. Not helped by # 45's word choice, because he, y'know, has a history of scapegoating people. Here's one person's experience: https://www.usatoday.com/story/opin...sm-against-asian-americans-column/6761944002/

Plenty of other sources too, all linking it to the pandemic originating in China, sometimes citing Trump's words:

Attacks Against Asian Americans Spike Amid COVID-19 Pandemic

“This is unacceptable, this is un-American."

www.baynews9.com

A Tense Lunar New Year for the Bay Area After Attacks on Asian-Americans (Published 2021)

The attacks have renewed fears over a wave of anti-Asian violence and harassment that was spurred earlier in the pandemic.

www.nytimes.com

Asian American Experiences of Racism during COVID-19

Dr. Sumie Okazaki, NYU Steinhardt professor of Applied Psychology, discusses the impact of COVID-19 on the racism that Asian Americans face, as well as resources for how parents and other adults can help Asian American children and youth.

steinhardt.nyu.edu

America’s long history of scapegoating its Asian citizens

When leaders call COVID-19 the “China virus,” it harkens back to decades of state-sanctioned discrimination against Asian Americans.

www.nationalgeographic.com

Anger And Fear As Asian American Seniors Targeted In Bay Area Attacks

The assaults have prompted some businesses to close early, while volunteers have set up protective escorts for older residents.

www.npr.org

Biden has started an effort to combat it: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/bid...-asian-americans-amid-covid/story?id=75490177

I think one thing just about everyone can agree on is that there are an awful lot of idiots in this country right now, which is certainly not being helped by all of the stress everyone has experienced over the last year. But nevertheless, discrimination against Asians has increased in the past year and is a very real problem right now.

I get it, but that's just not been my life experience whatsoever.

I socialize with people of various Asian descent regularly. Including one brilliant heart doctor whose parents had their land in Torrance, California stripped from them by the Roosevelt Administration in 1942 and were shipped off to an internment camp in Arkansas. He was born just after the war in Missouri, where his parents ended up because their farmland in Torrance had been sold when the war ended in '45 and they had nowhere else to go. He has a fascinating life story, his wife is a real doll (who is Latina and not Japanese, by the way), and they absolutely sparkle at any dinner party they attend.

I read articles like the ones you posted above and I just scrunch up my nose and scratch my head and think "Who the hell are these idiots?"

I just can't imagine a change in nomenclature is going to get bigots to change their minds. And the media made it very clear that Covid began in Wuhan, China. We all know that. It's not a secret.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I get it, but that's just not been my life experience whatsoever.

I socialize with people of various Asian descent regularly. Including one brilliant heart doctor whose parents had their land in Torrance, California stripped from them by the Roosevelt Administration in 1942 and were sent to internment camps in Arkansas. He was born just after the war in Missouri, where his parents ended up because their farmland in Torrance had been sold when the war ended in '45 and they had nowhere else to go. He has a fascinating life story, his wife is an absolute doll (who is Latina and not Japanese, by the way), and they absolutely sparkle at any dinner party they attend.

I read articles like the ones you posted above and I just scrunch up my nose and scratch my head and think "Who the hell are these idiots?"

I just can't imagine a change in nomenclature is going to get bigots to change their minds. And the media made it very clear that Covid began in Wuhan, China. We all know that. It's not a secret.

You are not Asian American. You are not in a position to assume it's all BS because ultimately you will never have that experience. It's not your life experience because you will never experience anti-Asian discrimination, because you are not Asian.

Also, you do realize that people who are prejudiced and racist make very deliberate choices as to when to intimidate others, right? It's not like they're just fountains of freeflowing racism 24/7. They wait until they're in an environment where they are certain they will face no consequences. or they're online and hide behind personas. This is abuser/discriminator 101. That's why in Hollywood you hear so many stories of harrassment and then there's always "well hurr durr, he was always very pleasant and professional with ME." Why is that? Because that person wasn't targeted. It doesn't mean that the person wasn't an abuser, it just means that for whatever reason (gender/fame/past relationship/$/etc) that person wasn't a good target. The people who are zeroed in on are people low on the totem pole or who people are less likely to notice. You're never going to hear a story about someone with social capital or star power like Tom Cruise or Beyonce being harassed at the height of their career/powers. There's a reason.

Discrimination works exactly the same way.

If you have friends of Asian descent, great. If you're talking to people like head doctors they may have enough social capital to insulate themselves from experiences like those described in the articles because, again, social capital. But that's not going to be the case for everyone that is Asian American, and as has been seen in other threads, you don't seem to be particularly understanding or empathetic about discrimination experienced by other people, despite having experienced discrimination yourself, so why would they tell you about it if they had? Clearly you'd just dismiss it as you've made a habit of doing so here.

Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not real. You didn't lose power in Texas, but you probably believe all those issues are real. How is this different?

 

[mharrington]

So apparently the plan to reopen in the orange tier would apply to outdoor attractions only. Does that mean that indoor attractions would only reopen when absolutely no social distancing measures are required and everything can be at full capacity?

 

[TP2000]

You are not Asian American. You are not in a position to assume it's all BS because ultimately you will never have that experience. It's not your life experience because you will never experience anti-Asian discrimination, because you are not Asian.

I don't think it's all BS. I know it does happen. I just don't know anyone who would think or behave that way.

It's as foreign to me as driving on the left side of the road.

I just don't think a change in nomenclature is going to get those bigots to change their mind. That's all.

Just because it doesn't happen to you doesn't mean it's not real. You didn't lose power in Texas, but you probably believe all those issues are real. How is this different?

Funny you mention that! We are just discussing this exact thing after another poster here put on a fake Texas accent and made fun of Texas for having a massive power outage in the worst winter storm in Texas history.

Oregon had the same thing happen from the same winter storm on its way south, and hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses are still without power today in Portland, six days after the storm arrived and plunged over a million Oregonians into the dark and cold. It's actually the worst power system failure in Oregon history.

Now, Oregonians have no discernible accent to make fun of, so it's not as amusing. But it's interesting how some states are ridiculed for a power outage and some states are entirely ignored. The discussion, including Hee-Haw level attempts at a Texan accent, is here...

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...truggles-ocr-scng.970480/page-27#post-9665119

 

[TP2000]

So apparently the plan to reopen in the orange tier would apply to outdoor attractions only. Does that mean that indoor attractions would only reopen when absolutely no social distancing measures are required and everything can be at full capacity?

It's all very confusing. I think @el_super reminded us a few days ago that those restrictions on indoor attractions only apply to "Small Parks" that can open in the Orange Tier. So things like Gilroy Gardens or the Santa Cruz Boardwalk.

Disneyland and Knott's don't apply because they are Big Parks that can't open until the Yellow Tier.

But there's a ban on the use of indoor queues for the Big Parks in the Yellow Tier. What that means for stuff like Indiana Jones or Haunted Mansion is anyone's guess. I can't imagine Sacramento has thought it through to that level anyway.

 

[PiratesMansion]

I don't think it's all BS. I know it does happen. I just don't know anyone who would think or behave that way.

It's as foreign to me as driving on the left side of the road.

I just don't think a change in nomenclature is going to get those bigots to change their mind. That's all.



Funny you mention that! We are just discussing this exact thing after another poster here put on a fake Texas accent and made fun of Texas for having a massive power outage in the worst winter storm in Texas history.

Oregon had the same thing happen from the same winter storm on its way south, and hundreds of thousands of homes and businesses are still without power today in Portland, six days after the storm arrived and plunged over a million Oregonians into the dark and cold.

Now, Oregonians have no discernible accent to make fun of, so it's not as amusing. But it's interesting how some states are ridiculed for a power outage and some states are entirely ignored. The discussion, including Hee-Haw level attempts at a Texan accent, is here...

https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...truggles-ocr-scng.970480/page-27#post-9665119

If 45 going out of his way to call it China Flu, Wuhan Flu, etc. can clearly influence the way Asian people are being treated, than clearly words DO have power and have meaning. Can you change a bigot just by telling him/her what to say? Maybe not. But words DO matter.

And, again, just because people you know aren't saying/doing this in front of you doesn't mean it isn't happening, or even that people you know aren't doing it when you're not around. Online anonymity has its perks for people of that type, and there were a number of people who, after the events of early January, had reactions akin to "Wow, I recognize ________ from this social event years ago, he/she seemed like such a good person! I wouldn't have expected that at all!"

You can know someone without really knowing them.

 

[mharrington]

It's all very confusing. I think @el_super reminded us a few days ago that those restrictions on indoor attractions only apply to "Small Parks" that can open in the Orange Tier. So things like Gilroy Gardens or the Santa Cruz Boardwalk.

Disneyland and Knott's don't apply because they are Big Parks that can't open until the Yellow Tier.

But there's a ban on the use of indoor queues for the Big Parks in the Yellow Tier. What that means for stuff like Indiana Jones or Haunted Mansion is anyone's guess. I can't imagine Sacramento has thought it through to that level anyway.

But what about the supposed bill from assembly people demanding that big parks be allowed in the orange tier? Has that bill died? Has Newsom vetoed it? Will Newsom be recalled before it ever happens? I would think his potentially facing recall would force his hand.

And why bother with the updates to Snow White or the Haunted Mansion if they're just going to remain closed until there is no need for social distancing?

Could someone like @Disney Irish care to weigh in?