News Remy's Ratatouille Adventure coming to Epcot

networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
yensidtlaw1969 said:
I never said that a greater transition is needed - I literally said the transition was sufficient. But I also said that the need for a transition is telling.

The issue isn't that the France Pavilion isn't "literally the country" - the issue is that the Pavilion used to represent a consistent intepretive representation of France, and now that consistency has been broken.

The attraction really doesn't fit the framework of World Showcase, as evidenced by the fact that they literally had to change the framework of the France Pavilion by adding a Cartoon-ified section to make sense of it.


The problem isn't that the Pavilion isn't exactly like Paris, it's that it's now split into two interpretations of the city that neither match each other nor the thematic notions of the Park.
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Ok so where are these suppose to go ?

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networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
yensidtlaw1969 said:
Nowhere, since they neither fit the pre-existing France Pavilion nor World Showcase. Which is my entire point about Ratatouille.

I'm not calling for authenticity, I'm calling for uniformity of vision.

I feel like I'm being really clear about that.
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Then we'll agree to disagree as none of the country pavilions are internally consistent.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
Then we'll agree to disagree as none of the country pavilions are internally consistent.
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What's not internally consistent about Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Morocco? There could be something, but nothing jumps out at me in thinking about it. I suppose maybe the additional outdoor buildings at Mexico; I was really only thinking about the pyramid interior. Same thing with Morocco. Those were later additions, though (I think all were), so similar problem as France.

The UK isn't, but that's by design -- it's supposed to take you through the different eras of UK architecture.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
UNCgolf said:
What's not internally consistent about Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Morocco? There could be something, but nothing jumps out at me in thinking about it. I suppose maybe the additional outdoor buildings at Mexico; I was really only thinking about the pyramid interior. Same thing with Morocco. Those were later additions, though (I think all were), so similar problem as France.

The UK isn't, but that's by design -- it's supposed to take you through the different eras of UK architecture.
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Different styles is still a consistent vision as the interpretation and synthesis of the styles is all consistent. Even the various additions are still realistic interpretations. The Ratatouille area though is more cartoony. It’s an imitation of an imitation.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Different styles is still a consistent vision as the interpretation and synthesis of the styles is all consistent. Even the various additions are still realistic interpretations. The Ratatouille area though is more cartoony. It’s an imitation of an imitation.
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I agree. I was trying to come up with his reasoning for calling them internally inconsistent since I couldn't really think of anything. Spice Road Table is relatively generic compared to the rest of the Moroccan pavilion, but I don't think it's inconsistent.
 
yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
Different styles is still a consistent vision as the interpretation and synthesis of the styles is all consistent. Even the various additions are still realistic interpretations. The Ratatouille area though is more cartoony. It’s an imitation of an imitation.
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Exactly.

It's not about realism - World Showcase never was. It's about Romanticism. The UK Pavilion does this. Morocco feels like it could have been there from day one. Even the Royal Sommerhus generally fits this if you ignore what's inside.

Ratatouille, Frozen, Three Caballeros . . . they aren't about romantic interpretations of the world's nations. They're about "Disney-fying" the place.

As if World Showcase as executed wasn't a far greater example of what Disney is and could be than a cartoon Snowman is (even if I like him).
 
networkpro

networkpro

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
UNCgolf said:
What's not internally consistent about Mexico, Germany, Italy, and Morocco? There could be something, but nothing jumps out at me in thinking about it. I suppose maybe the additional outdoor buildings at Mexico; I was really only thinking about the pyramid interior. Same thing with Morocco. Those were later additions, though (I think all were), so similar problem as France.

The UK isn't, but that's by design -- it's supposed to take you through the different eras of UK architecture.
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Germany and Mexican areas have the same issue as UK. Different region and era representational architectures. Neither is monolithic.
 
yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
networkpro said:
Germany and Mexican areas have the same issue as UK. Different region and era representational architectures. Neither is monolithic.
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That's not the problem.

If the France Pavilion depicted additional regions of France outside of Paris, but rendered them all in the same artistic style, I would have no complaints. That's Romanticising. That's what Germany, Mexico, and the UK Pavilions do. And they do it successfully.

The France Pavilion now renders the same city in two different styles within the same Pavilion.

OG EPCOT France and Ratatouille France are distinct styles that are not congruent with each other. THAT'S the problem.

You seem to have made up your mind to misunderstand.
 
lazyboy97o

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
If the France Pavilion depicted additional regions of France outside of Paris, but rendered them all in the same artistic style, I would have no complaints. That's Romanticising. That's what Germany, Mexico, and the UK Pavilions do. And they do it successfully.
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And China. It is rarely mentioned but the China Pavilion feature a variety of vernacular styles from across China along with more formal styles.
 
yensidtlaw1969

yensidtlaw1969

Well-Known Member
lazyboy97o said:
And China. It is rarely mentioned but the China Pavilion feature a variety of vernacular styles from across China along with more formal styles.
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It's probably true that most of the Pavilions do this to at least some extent. I was just citing those three because they were cited in the post I replied to.
 
UNCgolf

UNCgolf

Well-Known Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
It's probably true that most of the Pavilions do this to at least some extent. I was just citing those three because they were cited in the post I replied to.
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Italy does but only in relatively minor ways, at least as originally built. The pavilion was mostly Venetian with some Rome scattered around -- until they built Via Napoli, which is more or less Florentine (despite being named for Naples). I could be wrong (just going off memory), but I don't think there's much, if anything, based on southern Italy.
 
LittleBuford

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
That's not the problem.

If the France Pavilion depicted additional regions of France outside of Paris, but rendered them all in the same artistic style, I would have no complaints. That's Romanticising. That's what Germany, Mexico, and the UK Pavilions do. And they do it successfully.

The France Pavilion now renders the same city in two different styles within the same Pavilion.

OG EPCOT France and Ratatouille France are distinct styles that are not congruent with each other. THAT'S the problem.

You seem to have made up your mind to misunderstand.
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The existing France pavilion, however, was specifically Parisian in design. I can’t see how a non-Parisian addition, even if rendered in the same style, would have given a more congruous result than the Ratatouille extension, which at least remains true to the overall locational conceit.
 
nickys

nickys

Premium Member
yensidtlaw1969 said:
Even the Royal Sommerhus generally fits this if you ignore what's inside.
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Gotta disagree on that. The pavilion was built as one village but using the distinct architectural styles of each of four different Norwegian towns. The extension of the Royal Sommerhaus wrecked that integrity completely by impinging onto the neighbouring style buildings. ☹️
 

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