News Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious

[vikescaper]

I assume there’s 0% chance we see a holiday tag?

Are there any Disney Christmas songs?

 

[vikescaper]

Are there any Disney Christmas songs?

Here we go! What’s the best way to get this to Chapek?

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Here we go! What’s the best way to get this to Chapek?

You've really got to stop with all these "ideas"...

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

It’s even worse. Superstar Limo was awful and stupid. Harm is bland. Like I say over and over, stupid is always better then bland.

Compare the reception of Harmonius vs. that of Kite Tails.

Only one of those shows is going massively viral . . .

 

[Nmoody1]

Won't this end with Steve Davison "Leaving the company to pursue other creative experiences" and replaced with a "yes man"?

Let's hope so. All his stuff is the same and it's boring.

That may be budget cuts, it may be IP mandates - but he has been on a downward spiral.

 

[Nmoody1]

And then Peter Quill interrupts to teach them real Disney Earth music from that one time he visited Epcot and proceeds to get them to sing "Everyone Wants to be a Cat."

Or Peter Quill loved epcot so much he found his EPCOT mix tape of The Computer Song, It's Fun to be Free and One Little Spark. Then they can add those to the show!

Which has got me thinking..... imagine being poor Peter Quill who hasn't seen Disney slowly degrade over all this time, you come back for the opening of the first "other world showcase" pavilion at EPCOT and just wonder WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?!

 

[vikescaper]

You've really got to stop with all these "ideas"...

To understand Chapek, one must think like Chapek.

 

[Movielover]

To understand Chapek, one must think like Chapek.

The inner machinations of his mind are a enigma...

 

[Squishy]

The inner machinations of his mind are a enigma...

 

[Father Robinson]

Just watched some of this and...yikes. The last few years have been painful to watch, especially as an EPCOT Center nerd, but this might have been the thing to really break me.

I don't know, man; I'm in my mid-30s, born a few years after EPCOT Center opened. I grew up right on the cusp of the whole "Disney Renaissance" era, so I have plenty of memories of Beauty and the Beast/Aladdin/Lion King/etc. flooding the airwaves with toy ads and tie-in promotions and appearing in the parks in different ways. But it means I also still got to grow up with a Disney that felt like it didn't just want to be that, you know? The parks always felt like they contained a whole universe of things Disney wanted to have a hand in: the animated films were highlighted, certainly, but so was everything from the art of moviemaking, to "hey, check out this awesome dinosaur diorama", to properties that came from outside the Disney canon (though obviously the Muppets and Lucasfilm stuff are all under the umbrella, now), and all kinds of experiences that felt Disney without feeling like it was trying to sell you a brand called Disney. That extended to everything from new, original attractions, to theming and entertainment/shows in restaurants, to the level of guest services you'd receive in the parks and around the resort, and that vibe stuck around for a good, long while.

The original EPCOT wanted to be something else, too; it played on Walt's city idea and his futurism hobbies, and even when it shifted around the mid-90s and lost a lot of what had made it great it at least tried to remain distinct and different, so that a day at EPCOT didn't feel like a day at Magic Kingdom. And I appreciated that! Since I was a very small child, fortunate enough to grow up under circumstances that allowed my family to visit WDW around once a year, EPCOT was always where my heart was when we'd visit. Losing Dreamfinder, Horizons, and the rest was always a gut punch, but the skeleton of a monumental accomplishment in themed entertainment remained, so you could always sit there and armchair imagineer what felt like realistic solutions that, hey, maybe they'd just be a few years away!

But I think that's gone, now. Change is inevitable, no one would deny that, and the parks can't remain preserved in amber, but this just isn't EPCOT anymore. Again, even as a small child Disney meant a lot more to me than "just" Mickey and friends, or "just" the animated movies; but the more I see from the parks in recent years, the more I feel like there's less to be had from the experience if you're not going in a fully committed fan of the enormous amount of content Disney churns out every month...and I'm just not. I have plenty of Disney movies/properties I've loved throughout my life, but enjoying them never felt like a requisite for enjoying what WDW had to offer.

Again, EPCOT was the escape from that: it was the "different" park. It was, again, "Disney" without feeling like they were selling you "Disney". I'll say once more, even as a child I loved that there was a place I could go in the resort where I wasn't being bombarded with Mickey and the others (even though I still liked meeting them when I was little!), yet everything still felt authentically "Disney". But now it's not just enough to have a casual understanding of Disney's classic films and then go and enjoy the rest of what they have to offer: they expect you to be a Disney+ subscriber who isn't missing any new films from any of their major studios, who brings the kids to see every one of them even as they come out month after month after month, not every few years like the ancient days. And I don't enjoy that. I don't want to have to know who Anna and Elsa are in order to enjoy the Norway pavilion. I shouldn't need to stay on top of Pixar's or Marvel's release schedule to fully enjoy the parks. Having them around isn't so bad, MGM always had an annual parade based around the newest animated films, but they're everything now about the park experience.

And sadly, in the era of these online streaming megaservices, as seen in cynical material like the latest Space Jam movie we're just living in a world of these megacorporations sucking up every property they can get their hands on and throwing it in our faces so that we'll subscribe, buy, and build our lives around them, because "Hey, you remember THIS movie you loved as a kid?! Here, have an endless supply of it!" It's references instead of actual experiences, and it's shallow and it's dull and it's dispiriting.

I was in EPCOT in 2019, my last trip as of this writing, and literally teared up at the finale of Reflections of Earth, partly due to the knowledge it'd be the last time I'd see it but also due to the amazing musical score and the way the pyrotechnics synced up so well with it all. And then we got the word that the replacement would be...another show where they basically have you sing-a-long to your "favorite" Disney songs. Because we can't get that anywhere else? Thousands and thousands of acres of property, yet the parks all have to be homogenized: same songs, same movies, same merchandise, same "GO HOME AND SUBCRIBE TO DISNEY+ TODAY" messaging.

tl;dr - I'm not a "the past was always better!" guy. I have a MA in history, I know full well the past was usually pretty awful in most regards. But this just feels dystopian to me, and seeing it replace something as beautiful and moving as RoE feels like the straw that's breaking the camel's back for me. I wanted to get back to WDW by 2022 for the EPCOT 40th, but I'm starting to question why I'd bother...and I'm questioning why I'd bring a potential future child of mine, since there's nothing there to build a connection with outside of "look, honey, there's that character from one of the movies Disney gets me to put on a rotation to stream for you!" Scary stuff.

Well said. Quoting for posterity.

Me too.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

To understand Chapek, one must think like Chapek.

"To understand the cash register, you must become the cash register..."

 

[cookiee_munster]

Someone used this reference on twitter today and I just lost it. Because it literally IS the perfect epitome of what all the hardware that's used really comes down to.

 

[vikescaper]

"To understand the cash register, you must become the cash register..."

Old school cash register or one of the fancy new, high tech ones?

 

[James Alucobond]

New, but operated with absurdly long press-on nails.

 

[Epcot82Guy]

Old school cash register or one of the fancy new, high tech ones?

Whichever one is more family, more timeless, more relevant, more Disney.

 

[jadebenn]

Just watched some of this and...yikes. The last few years have been painful to watch, especially as an EPCOT Center nerd, but this might have been the thing to really break me.

I don't know, man; I'm in my mid-30s, born a few years after EPCOT Center opened. I grew up right on the cusp of the whole "Disney Renaissance" era, so I have plenty of memories of Beauty and the Beast/Aladdin/Lion King/etc. flooding the airwaves with toy ads and tie-in promotions and appearing in the parks in different ways. But it means I also still got to grow up with a Disney that felt like it didn't just want to be that, you know? The parks always felt like they contained a whole universe of things Disney wanted to have a hand in: the animated films were highlighted, certainly, but so was everything from the art of moviemaking, to "hey, check out this awesome dinosaur diorama", to properties that came from outside the Disney canon (though obviously the Muppets and Lucasfilm stuff are all under the umbrella, now), and all kinds of experiences that felt Disney without feeling like it was trying to sell you a brand called Disney. That extended to everything from new, original attractions, to theming and entertainment/shows in restaurants, to the level of guest services you'd receive in the parks and around the resort, and that vibe stuck around for a good, long while.

The original EPCOT wanted to be something else, too; it played on Walt's city idea and his futurism hobbies, and even when it shifted around the mid-90s and lost a lot of what had made it great it at least tried to remain distinct and different, so that a day at EPCOT didn't feel like a day at Magic Kingdom. And I appreciated that! Since I was a very small child, fortunate enough to grow up under circumstances that allowed my family to visit WDW around once a year, EPCOT was always where my heart was when we'd visit. Losing Dreamfinder, Horizons, and the rest was always a gut punch, but the skeleton of a monumental accomplishment in themed entertainment remained, so you could always sit there and armchair imagineer what felt like realistic solutions that, hey, maybe they'd just be a few years away!

But I think that's gone, now. Change is inevitable, no one would deny that, and the parks can't remain preserved in amber, but this just isn't EPCOT anymore. Again, even as a small child Disney meant a lot more to me than "just" Mickey and friends, or "just" the animated movies; but the more I see from the parks in recent years, the more I feel like there's less to be had from the experience if you're not going in a fully committed fan of the enormous amount of content Disney churns out every month...and I'm just not. I have plenty of Disney movies/properties I've loved throughout my life, but enjoying them never felt like a requisite for enjoying what WDW had to offer.

Again, EPCOT was the escape from that: it was the "different" park. It was, again, "Disney" without feeling like they were selling you "Disney". I'll say once more, even as a child I loved that there was a place I could go in the resort where I wasn't being bombarded with Mickey and the others (even though I still liked meeting them when I was little!), yet everything still felt authentically "Disney". But now it's not just enough to have a casual understanding of Disney's classic films and then go and enjoy the rest of what they have to offer: they expect you to be a Disney+ subscriber who isn't missing any new films from any of their major studios, who brings the kids to see every one of them even as they come out month after month after month, not every few years like the ancient days. And I don't enjoy that. I don't want to have to know who Anna and Elsa are in order to enjoy the Norway pavilion. I shouldn't need to stay on top of Pixar's or Marvel's release schedule to fully enjoy the parks. Having them around isn't so bad, MGM always had an annual parade based around the newest animated films, but they're everything now about the park experience.

And sadly, in the era of these online streaming megaservices, as seen in cynical material like the latest Space Jam movie we're just living in a world of these megacorporations sucking up every property they can get their hands on and throwing it in our faces so that we'll subscribe, buy, and build our lives around them, because "Hey, you remember THIS movie you loved as a kid?! Here, have an endless supply of it!" It's references instead of actual experiences, and it's shallow and it's dull and it's dispiriting.

I was in EPCOT in 2019, my last trip as of this writing, and literally teared up at the finale of Reflections of Earth, partly due to the knowledge it'd be the last time I'd see it but also due to the amazing musical score and the way the pyrotechnics synced up so well with it all. And then we got the word that the replacement would be...another show where they basically have you sing-a-long to your "favorite" Disney songs. Because we can't get that anywhere else? Thousands and thousands of acres of property, yet the parks all have to be homogenized: same songs, same movies, same merchandise, same "GO HOME AND SUBCRIBE TO DISNEY+ TODAY" messaging.

tl;dr - I'm not a "the past was always better!" guy. I have a MA in history, I know full well the past was usually pretty awful in most regards. But this just feels dystopian to me, and seeing it replace something as beautiful and moving as RoE feels like the straw that's breaking the camel's back for me. I wanted to get back to WDW by 2022 for the EPCOT 40th, but I'm starting to question why I'd bother...and I'm questioning why I'd bring a potential future child of mine, since there's nothing there to build a connection with outside of "look, honey, there's that character from one of the movies Disney gets me to put on a rotation to stream for you!" Scary stuff.

As a kid, Futureworld was always my favorite place in all the WDW parks for similar reasons. I have very good memories of that time, and I can tell you that while I didn't really understand any of the broader points being touched on, I was very inspired by the attractions nonetheless.

Like, I grew up with turn-of-the-millenium EPCOT (or should I say, Epcot). I know that many of you would argue the watering-down had already begun by then. I don't think you're necessarily wrong, but I think there was still much of the original EPCOT Center vision still left in Epcot.

My memories of Test Track stand out, for one. I may not have known about ABS or crash-test dummies, but I knew enough to know that this ride was teaching me something about how cars were made, and I thought that was pretty rad.

Mission: Space too. I thought the idea of going to Mars on a rocket was awesome, and I was super-enthused by experiencing a taste of that (though even kid me thought it was silly that the ride storyline had us explicitly in a simulator - just make us astronauts).

Heck, even Ellen's Energy Adventure, which I hardly remember at all, inspired me! ...Though admittedly I think I was more impressed by the ride system than the actual show.

Now it feels like Disney's moving away from even the 90s-era Futureworld philosophy. The Energy Pavillion is a rollercoaster, half of Innoventions is gone (and yes it was horribly dated and empty but the building itself should've been retained), Futureworld is no longer Futureworld, and the World Showcase lagoon sightlines have been completely destroyed. Instead of updating and modernizing the message of EPCOT, it's being tossed away entirely.

Look, if you want to put in IP, fine. But for EPCOT, let the IPs be our guides. Let them inspire us about the real world. Dreamfinder and Figment had the formula down pat. And this isn't nostalgia talking, because I'm young enough that I never personally experienced them in their original iteration. I can just call good storytelling where I see it.

 

[britain]

I don't think it is really surprising that the idea came from the top. We've seen this many times in the past. Whenever there is a large spend, it really has to have support from that level. You may not like the idea, but was it executed as well as it could have been?

Not only that, but how often is it politically the savvy thing to do to give the credit for the big idea to the boss, even though it was your own idea?

Having said that, I don't think this is an example of that, nor is it an example of throwing Chapek under the bus. I think Steve was actually trying to show that Chapek is no creative slouch - he came up with a "great" idea (even though it seems like it belongs in the same category of great CEO ideas as "How about a park about California?").

At least, that's a gracious way of looking at it.

 

[Tom Morrow]

It’s even worse. Superstar Limo was awful and stupid. Harm is bland. Like I say over and over, stupid is always better then bland.

Someone else already mentioned it but yeah, ultimately KiteTails will be more memorable because it makes you feel something beyond: "Well, that's pretty." *takes photo for Instagram*... "huh... 19 more minutes of this still?"

Not even nice to look at (lagoon etc), the park is just being turned into another Disney Springs, or Drinking Kingdom.

It's been that way for quite a while, though. It's why the "festivals" run year-round and all have food & alcohol offerings.

 

[RSoxNo1]

These next couple of years of Disney and the Disney Parks (mainly Disneyland and Walt Disney World) is going to be very, very.... interesting. I miss the days when Disney used to have a duo dynamic (Walt/Roy and Eisner/Wells). At least Tokyo Disney Resort is lucky enough to avoid most of this (due to being owned by OLC).

The character permeation / dilution is absolutely present in Tokyo. The difference is, that's exactly what is wanted over there.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I don't think it is really surprising that the idea came from the top. We've seen this many times in the past. Whenever there is a large spend, it really has to have support from that level. You may not like the idea, but was it executed as well as it could have been?

How can you ask creative people to be inspired by ideas that they themselves didn't develop? If the creative mandates come from the top then it will be hard for the creatives to get behind them and then in turn hard for the consumers to get behind those projects.

I'm not going to ask Stephen King to write children's books. Sure, he can probably do it (he may have actually already done it), but it's not his thing.