brooklyn7788
New Member
Thank goodness. Illuminations has been going on too long. i hope they dont make it like the Rivers of Light show though, that could not have been MORE BORING.
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News Reflections of Earth confirmed to be replaced by Harmonious
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Tom P.
Well-Known Member
People talk about what "should" or "should not" be in Epcot as though the design for that park was handed down by God to Moses on stone tablets.
Epcot is a theme park. Yes, it is a unique theme park. Perhaps different from any other in the world. But it is still a theme park, not an historical monument. It evolves and changes. The EPCOT Center that opened in 1982 was not even remotely like Walt's original plan. The Epcot that we have today is barely like what EPCOT Center was in 1982. And the Epcot that will exist in 20 years will no doubt be very different from the one we have today.
Do I want to see Epcot retain its unique character and charm? Of course. And, quite honestly, I think it will despite the various changes and additions that have been announced. But arguing against the integration of IP into the parks is a futile (and frustrating) exercise at this point. Epcot is going to become more IP-focused. Nothing is going to change that. But that doesn't have to be the death knell for the park and its unique charm. And I don't think it will be.
Epcot is a theme park. Yes, it is a unique theme park. Perhaps different from any other in the world. But it is still a theme park, not an historical monument. It evolves and changes. The EPCOT Center that opened in 1982 was not even remotely like Walt's original plan. The Epcot that we have today is barely like what EPCOT Center was in 1982. And the Epcot that will exist in 20 years will no doubt be very different from the one we have today.
Do I want to see Epcot retain its unique character and charm? Of course. And, quite honestly, I think it will despite the various changes and additions that have been announced. But arguing against the integration of IP into the parks is a futile (and frustrating) exercise at this point. Epcot is going to become more IP-focused. Nothing is going to change that. But that doesn't have to be the death knell for the park and its unique charm. And I don't think it will be.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Disney didn't become what it is today by just giving people what they want. The company was built on providing new and innovative forms of entertainment that no one else was doing.
Epcot was really a great example of how doing something different from your standard theme park could still be fun and appealing. It probably broadened their fan base.
The great thing about WDW is that each park really feels like it's own experience, and that is slowly being chipped away. I don't hate characters or thrill rides, but I don't want an Epcot that is just an extension of Tomorrowland and Fantasyland.
MickeyMinnieMom
Well-Known Member
Kman101
Well-Known Member
I agree with you. But I also understand why those who truly experienced and loved EPCOT Center dislike the current direction. If any bit of the care had gone into the new attractions that went into the old, there'd likely be less complaining. IP isn't the problem, execution of it is.
Test Track and Soarin' are fine as is, but why couldn't they be "more"? Why was Nemo just a rehash instead of an edutainment experience? There's a tasteful way to use IP and modernize Epcot while still honoring the past. They've sort of failed at doing that, and that's likely the core of why many hate IP in Epcot and hate the current direction. It lacks the same depth the park once had. There's very little "inspiring" about it anymore. I don't hate everything, or hate using IP (if used right, it's not that hard but they seem to be unable to get it right) but I can absolutely see why many do.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
That show is awful...it obviously lacked vision and/or budget or proper operational overhead allowance to make it the kinda show they needed to develop.
Sirwalterraleigh
Premium Member
Tom P.
Well-Known Member
I disagree with that last sentence. I don't think people here are generally complaining about the execution. I think a significant percentage of the posters here feel that it is somehow an affront to Epcot to introduce any IP into the park at all, regardless of how it is executed. And I just strongly disagree with that.
(As an aside, I hate the use of the term "IP" in this context. Everything Disney does is intellectual property. It is not somehow holier because it was originally designed by an imagineer working for Disney than an animator working for Pixar.)
Kman101
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm complaining about the execution. Many are. Some just seem to see it as "WE HATE IP" and yes, many seem to stubbornly hate it. I was just trying to explain why there's *likely* a deeper reason for the "hatred". Don't just assume it's baseless hatred.
I do agree I dislike how IP has suddenly become a dirty word.
xdan0920
Think for yourselfer
Shocking.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
But here's the thing Wendy, what worked in 1971 may not and often times does not work today. Now I grew up in my family's restaurant, so yeah we gave the customer what they wanted even if we thought it was tasteless water down junk because well, that's what puts money in the coffers.
I doubt putting characters in Epcot somehow turns it into Mk but the reality is, little girls want to see Frozen character and they want to see them in EVERY park.
Now what is going to be interesting is if the show has any iota of ip or character voices, faces or anything it, it will get panned here. so pretty much it's a zero sum game.
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tirian
Well-Known Member
Do people truly over-simplify it that much?
Pirates, Mansion, CBJ, and Space are IPs created by men who began as animators and switched to WDI. The same men who gave us Tinkerbell and Cinderella created something new for Disneyland. POTC could have included Captain Hook, but it didn’t.
Nothing is wrong with IP when it’s appropriate. So far, Disney’s IP inclusions at Epcot have forced “Fantasyland Lite” rather than being appropriate. Maybe one day it will be done correctly. So far, Nemo and Caballeros come close but are animated scavenger hunts for a character.
tirian
Well-Known Member
Since little girls are the only people visiting Epcot, that’s a sound argument.
Wendy Pleakley
Well-Known Member
Characters alone won't turn Epcot into the MK but look at the attractions. Frozen would be at home in Fantasyland, yet it's in World Showcase. Guardians would be at home in Tomorrowland, yet it's in Future World. Test Track was improved, but at the same time has lost what little Edutainment factor it once had. 'Soarin at least fits in Epcot, even if it should have been in World Showcase.
Epcot is inching closer and closer to being the MK Part 2.
People may want Frozen everywhere or junk food, but that's because they don't know better. I'm not an imagineer, but I want those super creative people to come up with ways of entertaining me that I could never imagine.
Nobody "wanted" a full length animated movie, yet Walt made Snow White. People love animated movies to this day, go figure.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
And that's called Hyperbole. Yes I recognize that little girls are not the only ones visiting Epcot. thanks, I wouldn't have figured it out.
ok since the art of taking a sentence and the extracting it to the circumstances seems to be a lost art, isn't that still on the sat? lets break it down.
Children of all ages, shapes, sizes, ethnicity, sex and demographics like to see the characters every where and since most parents want to keep the little minions happy, it isn't surprising that Disney makes an effort to give the public what they seem to want.
eliza61nyc
Well-Known Member
Absolutely? Does anyone ever wonder why frozen is in World showcase? That's an honest question, I don't know. I figure very simply Frozen was a runaway hit and the mouseworld is capitalizing off of it.
Maybe folks today don't want to be edutained? Why is Disney going full steam on IP stuff? It can't be just to annoy folks here.
I like HEA. When I see it, I enjoy it and I'm not making a mental note of all the ways it can be improved.
I like RoE. However, when I see it, I make a lengthy mental list of all the ways it could be improved:
RoE needed *huge* upgrades or a new show, so, I'm glad there'll be a new show.
I don't mind the IP if done right, namely, nicely re-orchestrated for the show rather than audio clips of the movies, and none of that mushy old-time choir sound (looking at you American Adventure), but a more gospel-y or Broadway sound.
I like RoE. However, when I see it, I make a lengthy mental list of all the ways it could be improved:
- the pan flute rendition of Popcorn before the show is an insult to music, there are literally tens of thousands of better choices of music
- all stuff in the way of viewing, from trees to lakeside buildings (which I know a new show won't take care of)
- all the show elements at the level of the lake surface which becomes impossible to see if you have people in front of you
- the globe that is too small for the show and the attempt to show a video on only 25% of the globe (which is the percent of land mass on Earth)
- the big pause, because if you can't see the globe, then there is nothing visual happening
RoE needed *huge* upgrades or a new show, so, I'm glad there'll be a new show.
I don't mind the IP if done right, namely, nicely re-orchestrated for the show rather than audio clips of the movies, and none of that mushy old-time choir sound (looking at you American Adventure), but a more gospel-y or Broadway sound.
Minions are up the road at UniversalAnd that's called Hyperbole. Yes I recognize that little girls are not the only ones visiting Epcot. thanks, I wouldn't have figured it out.
ok since the art of taking a sentence and the extracting it to the circumstances seems to be a lost art, isn't that still on the sat? lets break it down.
Children of all ages, shapes, sizes, ethnicity, sex and demographics like to see the characters every where and since most parents want to keep the little minions happy, it isn't surprising that Disney makes an effort to give the public what they seem to want.