Reflections After a Week-Long Solo Trip

[Br’er Rabbit]

I don't have an agenda lol let's not be silly. Even if you want to argue that point, then what's the counterargument for the lack of detail/size/shops/ dining locations? They both are working within preexisting regions of parks. Using preexisting attractions is something all parks have done, but Universal has somehow done them better as of late and that's very unlike Disney to be outshined like this, especially considering they saw what the standard was because HP World was done years before. Disney used to 'plus it' and they have had two missed opportunities here.

My reply was to point out that you aren’t being accurate in your info. I like Harry Potter Word more than TSL and possibly a bit more than Pandora. However I’m not going to misinterpret facts to help prove my point. There is no lack of dining in Pandora compared to Harry Potter becasue they both have the 1 dining location lol. Pandora has 2 new attractions while Harry Potter has 1.

Don’t really understand your point of “well they’re nothing working on prexisting locations”. Um well yep. Harry Potter is bigger than Pandora becasue the prexisting location for Universal was bigger. It’s not a conspiracy. Bigger space means more stuff.

 

[GeoffR]

My reply was to point out that you aren’t being accurate in your info. I like Harry Potter Word more than TSL and possibly a bit more than Pandora. However I’m not going to misinterpret facts to help prove my point. There is no lack of dining in Pandora compared to Harry Potter becasue they both have the 1 dining location lol. Pandora has 2 new attractions while Harry Potter has 1.

Don’t really understand your point of “well they’re nothing working on prexisting locations”. Um well yep. Harry Potter is bigger than Pandora becasue the prexisting location for Universal was bigger. It’s not a conspiracy. Bigger space means more stuff.

Didn't say it was a conspiracy....lol that's an odd thing to say. It's all a matter of opinion, and if people like what WDW has added that's great, but I think they have been largely missed opportunities and 'quickly' added the lowest hanging fruit. I wouldn't say anyone posting on this forum is really the demographic TSL is directed to, but certainly, Pandora could have been more. And again, in my opinion, it's odd to see WDW not do more. To reiterate the point (my agenda? lol) WDW and the WDC have set their standards and people's expectations so high, that the things that are out of place, or not well done, or broken etc, really stand out. Without jumping down a rabbit hole into another topic it's hard for me as a guest to see the end result of these new things, and justify the quality of the experience.

 

[Br’er Rabbit]

Didn't say it was a conspiracy....lol that's an odd thing to say. It's all a matter of opinion, and if people like what WDW has added that's great, but I think they have been largely missed opportunities and 'quickly' added the lowest hanging fruit. I wouldn't say anyone posting on this forum is really the demographic TSL is directed to, but certainly, Pandora could have been more. And again, in my opinion, it's odd to see WDW not do more. To reiterate the point (my agenda? lol) WDW and the WDC have set their standards and people's expectations so high, that the things that are out of place, or not well done, or broken etc, really stand out. Without jumping down a rabbit hole into another topic it's hard for me as a guest to see the end result of these new things, and justify the quality of the experience.

Number of rides/shows/attractions are not opinions. Those are facts.

 

[GeoffR]

I noticed the T-shirt prices were crazy on our last trip in Sept. The trip before I bought a T-shirt/ball cap combo for $19.95. Where did things like that go?

Some items have remained inexpensive. The price hikes are on a handful of regular items, and the t-shirts are what stuck out to me. Interestingly enough, some shirts were $24.99, but they were really the lower-end items; poor graphics not in high demand stuff. So, based on that they are really just upselling the shirts that are in high demand. Smart business model, but it really bugged me.

 

[GeoffR]

I noticed one of the famous Disney goer vloggers was in one of the stores looking at prices of t-shirts, and even this person was astounded. Like one t-shirt was 30 something dollars that looked like it had already been through the wash 500 times.

The 'worn' look is pricey across shirt companies everywhere; I think it's called Tri-thread, or something that makes it really soft. The thing is, it's a very light shirt as oppose to a heavy graphic t-shirt. It's less shirt, for more money lol

 

[GeoffR]

Interesting...I wouldn't really have thought of comparing them quite this way (though I 've already read indirect references to this idea in other threads).

I long ago felt that the HP lands reminded me of the kind of creativity we used to see at WDW. Pandora isn't all bad, but it just doesn't evoke the quite same kind of excitement as the HP lands. The level of detail in the HP lands is just super. Pandora looks okay, but I don't really FEEL like I have been transported to a different place. It feels incomplete.

Though if I'm being honest, the HP merchandise prices are also too crazy high.

Mostly I just stopped looking at it. I would buy more if the prices weren't so absurd.

Yes, and I think you're going to always have overpriced items in tourist areas like this no matter what. I think what got me was the AMOUNT of increase. Inflation or not, I'm not sure how you explain an almost $40 t-shirt. The Partner's statue, normally $150, is $160 now. Art prints were $29.95, now are $34.99. Stuff like that isn't too severe, though it is noticeable. And once you see one price increase, you start noticing them all, and that's when it becomes bothersome.

Also, I'm only mentioning merch here, not drinks or food, so I don't want people to think I'm bringing to light the issues of the $4 20oz coke because that's an issue in almost all theme/amusement parks lol

 

[GeoffR]

One thing I want to circle back to is that this isn't a conversation about price hikes and ticket increases etc. My reflections from last week are based on Quality and Direction. Quality is what sets WDW part, and still does. But when things are noticeably in disrepair, I would argue that's when the price is brought into the discussion because how can I pay for something when it's becoming less worth it and you're not doing anything 'good' with my money?

I would like to move to my next reflection from my solo trip, and that's:

Direction

The problem with me, is I'm nostalgic, and my wife would say it's almost to a fault lol. I am an admittedly nostalgic person, but I have no problem with change...as long as it works within the confines of the original idea or what made the product so great. After my last trip, I'm not sure I agree with the direction WDW is headed towards. What direction do I mean? Well it's a little bit of an all-over-the-place discussion.

Is anyone else kinda sick of Star Wars? Is it just me? There's just something about seeing Star Wars merch in Fantasyland last week that I was just like 'man I'm sick of seeing this.' It's really everywhere. I'm kind of hoping SWL moves most of it out. I like Star Wars Launch Bay, it's a great gift shop and a cool museum-esque exhibit, but it replaced the animation academy. This is where my nostalgia takes hold: you have two SW attractions, on opposite ends of the park, while building a star wars land, and you got rid of this really unique area of the Studios....why?! The parade-march thing they do all the time in DHS is cool...but it's so often by the end of the day I was all done with hearing 'STAY ALERT!' I feel like the WDC has this property, and they don't know how to properly handle it. Does anyone else think not having classic characters in SWL is a mistake? It's just very hodgepodged and oversaturated, and it's kinda made me sick of seeing it.

I really don't like/agree/can't make sense of having the holiday decorations and parties as early as they do. There's something about November 1st Christmas decorations that just bothers me, especially in Magic Kingdom. I understand people love the parks on the Holidays, but having MSUSA decked out November 1st/2nd is really over the top. Personally, I've never been a fan of the decorations, I think they are a little gaudy, but that's fine some people love them. Having Christmas decorations up the day after Halloween is just weird, and gives no breathing room between holidays. It's the same for Halloween though; do we really need Halloween decorations in August?

And I get it: some people can't get to the parks and will miss out on these holiday parties so it gives them an extra chance to see it. I understand that, but selfishly I would like to see the parks 'as is' rather than decked in decorations from late August to January.

Does anyone else feel like they are making DHS and EPCOT just off-shoots of MK? When I was there last week, I just felt like so much of old EPCOT was uprooted and hearing what they were bringing in was just disappointing; in the sense that they are adding things that could be found in any park indiscriminately. I can get over Frozen Ever After in Norway, but Guardians of the Galaxy? I feel like I can put that ride anywhere and it would fit, which means it's not unique to EPCOT, and as a nostalgic, that stinks. You can't move Spaceship Earth, or Living with the Land, or even Soarin to other parks and make sense of them; they are uniquely EPCOT. You could move Frozen or Guardians to Tomorrow Land and Fantasyland in MK respectively and they would fit fine. To me, that's an issue.

Same issues at DHS. First off, that park is NOT set-up to be whatever they are trying to make it into. The tight alleyway-like corridors and deadends are not conducive to making it what they want it to be, which is MK 3.0. Now, you can argue that DHS is the park for IP driven lands, and that's probably the direction they are going, but I LOVED the old Hollywood set-up, and I LOVE sunset blvd and I would argue that TOT is the best attraction of all-time IMO. Outside of Hollywood BLVD and Sunset, the rest of the park is so hodgepodge. The initial concept with the on-stage back-stage stuff and the shows and tours was awesome but understandably out-dated. I would have loved to see them pursue the classic Hollywood aspects more. But IF they are planning to make this the IP version of MK, then they need to do some serious rethinking on layout and design; as of right now there is one way in and out to the various areas, which is obviously going to be an issue with the influx of guest come to SWL.

This is just some initinal points that I'd like to add to the discussion of my relflections. Does anyone have any thoughts on the direction of WDW? Agree/disagree?

Geoff

 

[Nemo14]

I agree - to me it feels like the goal now is to appeal to the lowest common denominator and to heck with creativity, imagination, and innovation.

 

[winstongator]

Whether or not I knew the price of a graphic t-shirt in WDW in recent years, I would still be shocked at a 37.50 t-shirt.

I was at Food & Wine and wanted a new t-shirt. Looked at the prices and said, 'I'll pass'. Then went on to buy a bunch of $5 4oz beer tasters and appetizers. Overpriced food, 'Yes please', overpriced merch, 'nah'.

 

[erasure fan1]

I long ago felt that the HP lands reminded me of the kind of creativity we used to see at WDW. Pandora isn't all bad, but it just doesn't evoke the quite same kind of excitement as the HP lands. The level of detail in the HP lands is just super. Pandora looks okay, but I don't really FEEL like I have been transported to a different place. It feels incomplete.

For me the reason for this is it comes down to the IP itself. Very few people, if any, really cared about Avatar as an IP. That doesn't mean you can't make a great ride, fop is by all accounts fantastic. But when you build a land based on an IP that left almost zero pop culture relevance, it is hard to get overly excited about. And in modern Disney fashion when you under build everything it doesn't help the situation.

Is anyone else kinda sick of Star Wars? Is it just me? There's just something about seeing Star Wars merch in Fantasyland last week that I was just like 'man I'm sick of seeing this.' It's really everywhere. I'm kind of hoping SWL moves most of it out. I like Star Wars Launch Bay, it's a great gift shop and a cool museum-esque exhibit, but it replaced the animation academy. This is where my nostalgia takes hold: you have two SW attractions, on opposite ends of the park, while building a star wars land, and you got rid of this really unique area of the Studios....why?! The parade-march thing they do all the time in DHS is cool...but it's so often by the end of the day I was all done with hearing 'STAY ALERT!' I feel like the WDC has this property, and they don't know how to properly handle it. Does anyone else think not having classic characters in SWL is a mistake? It's just very hodgepodged and oversaturated, and it's kinda made me sick of seeing it.

I will say I'm not close to being sick of star wars. I do agree with you on the hodgepodged aspect of it but I'm thinking that will change after the land opens. But since the land is so underbuilt capacity wise I have a bad feeling about them just leaving the hodgepodge out of necessity. The classic characters aspect is a tough one and I am mixed about it. I would have much preferred a classic trilogy land because that is what I grew up with. But I can see why they are doing what they are doing. The problem they are going to have with trying to keep the land "in canon" is you eliminate too many things people want to see as the movies pass. I see no way Kylo survives after 9, so then he won't be able to be in the land. That's dumb as my kids (and tons of others) LOVE the character and will be disappointed not to see him. Vader same thing. This is the land that will make or break Disney from a creative leader standpoint. You need a grand slam out of this not a slightly better pandora. But with only 2 rides, you already put yourself behind the 8 ball.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Some items have remained inexpensive. The price hikes are on a handful of regular items, and the t-shirts are what stuck out to me. Interestingly enough, some shirts were $24.99, but they were really the lower-end items; poor graphics not in high demand stuff. So, based on that they are really just upselling the shirts that are in high demand. Smart business model, but it really bugged me.

Hey Geoff, quick question prior to this trip when was the last time you were at the world?

 

[GeoffR]

Hey Geoff, quick question prior to this trip when was the last time you were at the world?

2017, 2016, 2014, 2012

 

[GeoffR]

For me the reason for this is it comes down to the IP itself. Very few people, if any, really cared about Avatar as an IP. That doesn't mean you can't make a great ride, fop is by all accounts fantastic. But when you build a land based on an IP that left almost zero pop culture relevance, it is hard to get overly excited about. And in modern Disney fashion when you under build everything it doesn't help the situation.

I will say I'm not close to being sick of star wars. I do agree with you on the hodgepodged aspect of it but I'm thinking that will change after the land opens. But since the land is so underbuilt capacity wise I have a bad feeling about them just leaving the hodgepodge out of necessity. The classic characters aspect is a tough one and I am mixed about it. I would have much preferred a classic trilogy land because that is what I grew up with. But I can see why they are doing what they are doing. The problem they are going to have with trying to keep the land "in canon" is you eliminate too many things people want to see as the movies pass. I see no way Kylo survives after 9, so then he won't be able to be in the land. That's dumb as my kids (and tons of others) LOVE the character and will be disappointed not to see him. Vader same thing. This is the land that will make or break Disney from a creative leader standpoint. You need a grand slam out of this not a slightly better pandora. But with only 2 rides, you already put yourself behind the 8 ball.

Yes, and I think they need to make it larger than their previous two lands which have been much smaller than, at least I, personally expected. I think if enough people are thrown off by the absence of original characters they will add them, but to me it's odd to not start out that way. Also, thet are keeping star tours outside of it, which again is odd to me

 

[larryz]

You’re twisting the facts to suit your own agenda.

Is that you, Doc?

 

[MuteSuperstar]

You need a grand slam out of this not a slightly better pandora. But with only 2 rides, you already put yourself behind the 8 ball.

Exactly. And as someone who saw the original in the theater in 1977 and was as blown away as anyone, I confess I am sick of Star Wars. The prequels got me there, Force Awakens and Rogue One brought me back a little bit, and then Last Jedi kind of broke the back. Obviously Disney has realized they may have overplayed their hand after Solo tanked. Just the sheer unrelenting throngs will ensure GE won't "fail" but how long will it endure? We shall see. I would be far more interested if one of these attractions was going to be Shanghai Pirates-level.

 

[eliza61nyc]

Exactly. And as someone who saw the original in the theater in 1977 and was as blown away as anyone, I confess I am sick of Star Wars. The prequels got me there, Force Awakens and Rogue One brought me back a little bit, and then Last Jedi kind of broke the back. Obviously Disney has realized they may have overplayed their hand after Solo tanked. Just the sheer unrelenting throngs will ensure GE, won't "fail" but how long will it endure? We shall see. I would be far more interested if one of these attractions was going to be Shanghai Pirates-level.

Maybe that's a good thing. One of the problems with Disney is that it was getting stale and old. I for one was beyond happy when they closed down the GMR. it was old, tired and boring. now maybe they didn't need to get rid of it, maybe it just needed an upgrade but every thing doesn't have to be engraved in stone, it was time for it to go and definitely needed to get rid of Ellen, I remember the last time I saw it, one of the kids in the audience wanted to know who Jamie lee curtis was. There are quite a few attractions I think need to be given the heave ho (runaway rail road comes to mind, Indiana Jones is another. I love the Muppets attraction and again maybe it doesn't need to go but it could use an update.

So if Star wars last 20 years, hey that would be a good run. Star wars like many Disney movies will survive basically because there is always a new generation of youngins who will get attached to do it. If I never hear 'let it go" from frozen or see Olaf again I would be a happy camper.

 

[aliceismad]

Maybe this is my rose-colored glasses but I think Star Wars will not have trouble enduring. The original Star Tours ride opened in DL in 86 and it’s still a solid ride.

Yes, Solo was a let down but I’d argue that the newest trilogy is far better than the prequels. Not to mention all of the books, comics, cartoons, video games, etc. all set in the Star Wars universe.

I’d argue that Pandora is a much larger long-term risk than SW.

 

[GeoffR]

Exactly. And as someone who saw the original in the theater in 1977 and was as blown away as anyone, I confess I am sick of Star Wars. The prequels got me there, Force Awakens and Rogue One brought me back a little bit, and then Last Jedi kind of broke the back. Obviously Disney has realized they may have overplayed their hand after Solo tanked. Just the sheer unrelenting throngs will ensure GE, won't "fail" but how long will it endure? We shall see. I would be far more interested if one of these attractions was going to be Shanghai Pirates-level.

Yes, I agree. I think there are a few things in the works with this. Firstly, they spent I believe 4 billion dollars for the property, and they want to make sure they are getting their money's worth. To do that, I think they believe you can't just rely on the previous film's successes, especially considering how old the originals are. I was very excited when they decided to make new films, but I personally only enjoyed Rogue One and haven't really cared for the other projects they've used SW in. It's a tough situation they put themselves in. I'm not sure what the thought process initially was, but it seemingly turned into 'let's give them Star Wars all the time.' However, like anything else, once something is constantly happening, it loses that special quality; the craving wanes because it's constantly being fed. 4 films in 3 years, 2 network shows (are there only 2?), books etc. have satisfied the SW cravings, but for some, like myself, it made it so I want something new; I like ice cream, but ice cream all the time is going to make me sick of it.

I still believe it's a mistake to keep the original characters out of SWL, and that will force them to have those characters elsewhere in the parks, so you're going to have SW in SWL, and outside of it in abundance, which isn't going to help (at least for me) how I feel about the situation.

 

[NickMaio]

I wonder if Disney WANTS the pay extra services to be visible to increase demand for them. It's a whole different mentality today.

A few years back you had EMH for resort guests, and you had private VIP tours that you probably never knew existed. But other than that, once you walked into a park you were all the same - you would have essentially the same experience whether you were staying at the Grand Floridian or the All-Star. Those days are gone.

Yes, sadly they are gone......... It's a crummy tiered system right in your face.

 

[GeoffR]

Maybe that's a good thing. One of the problems with Disney is that it was getting stale and old. I for one was beyond happy when they closed down the GMR. it was old, tired and boring. now maybe they didn't need to get rid of it, maybe it just needed an upgrade but every thing doesn't have to be engraved in stone, it was time for it to go and definitely needed to get rid of Ellen, I remember the last time I saw it, one of the kids in the audience wanted to know who Jamie lee curtis was. There are quite a few attractions I think need to be given the heave ho (runaway rail road comes to mind, Indiana Jones is another. I love the Muppets attraction and again maybe it doesn't need to go but it could use an update.

So if Star wars last 20 years, hey that would be a good run. Star wars like many Disney movies will survive basically because there is always a new generation of youngins who will get attached to do it. If I never hear 'let it go" from frozen or see Olaf again I would be a happy camper.

Unfortunately, what I've learned happens to these attractions that end up needing TLC then eventually fall apart and are replaced is very largely concerned with sponsorships. Journey into Imagination's current state is due very largely to Kodak's decline of the late 90s and they were contractually obligated to do refurbs when called upon and literally could only afford the disaster that was Journey into Your Imagination....which we all know was a dumpster fire. The Wonders of Life Pavilion lost Metlife as a sponsor and is gone completely. In the case of the GMR, I too wish they had done a refurb and added new IPs and this and that, but it was never going to happen because they didn't own any IP in the ride; Wizard of Oz was charging 1 million dollars a minute for its usage in the ride. Unless we got an 'all-disney' IP refurb, the writing was on the wall for it go down sooner rather than later. I'm not sure why (probably $) Muppets hasn't gotten touched-up since WDC bought them, but I agree there. Matter of fact, when I was there, there were only 2 planograms of Muppets merch in the post show shop. I asked why, and the CM said the stuff wasn't selling.

I think SW as an IP has reached that timeless status where, like you said, each generation of kids is going to watch the originals. However, I'm not sure that holds true for the prequels and the new films, or ever will