Reflections After a Week-Long Solo Trip

[GeoffR]

Can you explain a little more what you mean about both Pandora and Toy Story Land being lesser versions of Uni’s HP? Other than being based on movies, as a theme park outsider, I don’t see a correlation between the three (except of course that Disney’s lands were made to try to compete with HP). Just curious.

Yes, what I mean by that all of them (Both HP Worlds, Pandora, and TSL) are entire lands dedicated to IP; you are in the world of the IP it’s based on in all of them. Universal's versions of lands based on IP are so much more detailed, contain more shopping/entertainment areas, have more attractions, and are overall larger.

Take for instance the original Wizarding World of Harry Potter (HP World). It has three attractions, one of which is an E-Ticket, a live performance show, and interactive show, a connecting attraction ride (the train), two dining locations, and four gift-shops/stores.

In comparison, WDW’s first attempt to immolate this concept (with Pandora), has 1 dining location, 2 attractions, 1 live performance show, and 1 shop.

Additionally, both areas replaced already existing areas, so they were both working with a finite amount of space. Despite this, HP World is so much larger than Pandora, which feels more like an alley than a land; it’s more like a small path with attractions on one side and then it’s a dead-end.

So now let’s compare Universal’s second HP World, Diagon Alley (DA), and WDW’s second IP land Toy Story Land (TSL). DA has one e-ticket attraction, 2 live performances (3 if you count the bus outside), 2 dining locations, and so many shops it’s hard to count; not to mention the train.

TSL has three attractions, one which was preexisting, 1 dining location, 1 shop. Yet again, TSL is much smaller than anything in Universal’s HP Worlds.

I think the comparison in quantity speaks for itself, but what really does it for me is the details and quality of the 2 HP Worlds. WDW is known for the details; the things you don’t really notice until you go looking for them, the great little things that have made this place so great. HP World 1&2 blow both of the IP lands in WDW away in this category. IMO, both of the IP driven lands in Universal are more detailed, and just look and feel like I’m really there. I do not, and have not, had any experience like this in Pandora or TSL. I think they are both too small, and the details just don’t do it for me. TSL feels like a carnival, and Pandora feels just out of place.

Again these are all subjective, but IMO WDW’s attempts to immolate the success of HP World using their own IPs haven’t even come close to doing so. They aren’t failures, but WDW has always had a history of ‘plusing’ things and putting their own spin on ideas already created. In this case, it hasn’t happened.

Maybe SWL will, but if they stick with this formula of making them small and with few things to offer, it’ll be interesting to see what people say.

 

[NickMaio]

And again, it's not that there aren't great things there. I just argue that the negatives are so much more noticeable. It's great that they've driven innovation in other parks, but I feel like the current climate is starting dessert before finishing dinner, you know?

Totally agree - - - - WDW used to be about the finer things, the details, the atmosphere.
Case in point - - - those God awful tents that they had up around tomorrowland. Pay A LOT extra and you can cool down with drinks and TV's and have fun watching the commoners pass by you in the extreme heat.
These were in full view of everyone and destroying the theme of the land - all at the expense of making WDW a few more bucks.

These up-charge ticket events and special areas - - - serve the purpose to upset the flow and split the guest experience.
Don't get me wrong - WDW has always catered to the upper upper income - - - but in the past they did it so covertly that no one really knew any better. Now its in our faces that if we pay more we can have an unobstructed view of fireworks or sit in comfort.
Its sad really.

 

[aliceismad]

Yes, what I mean by that all of them (Both HP Worlds, Pandora, and TSL) are entire lands dedicated to IP; you are in the world of the IP it’s based on in all of them. Universal's versions of lands based on IP are so much more detailed, contain more shopping/entertainment areas, have more attractions, and are overall larger.

Take for instance the original Wizarding World of Harry Potter (HP World). It has three attractions, one of which is an E-Ticket, a live performance show, and interactive show, a connecting attraction ride (the train), two dining locations, and four gift-shops/stores.

In comparison, WDW’s first attempt to immolate this concept (with Pandora), has 1 dining location, 2 attractions, 1 live performance show, and 1 shop.

Additionally, both areas replaced already existing areas, so they were both working with a finite amount of space. Despite this, HP World is so much larger than Pandora, which feels more like an alley than a land; it’s more like a small path with attractions on one side and then it’s a dead-end.

So now let’s compare Universal’s second HP World, Diagon Alley (DA), and WDW’s second IP land Toy Story Land (TSL). DA has one e-ticket attraction, 2 live performances (3 if you count the bus outside), 2 dining locations, and so many shops it’s hard to count; not to mention the train.

TSL has three attractions, one which was preexisting, 1 dining location, 1 shop. Yet again, TSL is much smaller than anything in Universal’s HP Worlds.

I think the comparison in quantity speaks for itself, but what really does it for me is the details and quality of the 2 HP Worlds. WDW is known for the details; the things you don’t really notice until you go looking for them, the great little things that have made this place so great. HP World 1&2 blow both of the IP lands in WDW away in this category. IMO, both of the IP driven lands in Universal are more detailed, and just look and feel like I’m really there. I do not, and have not, had any experience like this in Pandora or TSL. I think they are both too small, and the details just don’t do it for me. TSL feels like a carnival, and Pandora feels just out of place.

Again these are all subjective, but IMO WDW’s attempts to immolate the success of HP World using their own IPs haven’t even come close to doing so. They aren’t failures, but WDW has always had a history of ‘plusing’ things and putting their own spin on ideas already created. In this case, it hasn’t happened.

Maybe SWL will, but if they stick with this formula of making them small and with few things to offer, it’ll be interesting to see what people say.

Thanks! This is helpful. I’m curious at to how Cars Land would stack up, as it’s also an IP-themed land and was built before HP.

(For the record, when Cars Land went up, I thought it was incredibly weird for Disney to devote an entire land to one IP.)

 

[graphite1326]

I noticed the T-shirt prices were crazy on our last trip in Sept. The trip before I bought a T-shirt/ball cap combo for $19.95. Where did things like that go?

 

[KBLovedDisney]

I noticed the T-shirt prices were crazy on our last trip in Sept. The trip before I bought a T-shirt/ball cap combo for $19.95. Where did things like that go?

I noticed one of the famous Disney goer vloggers was in one of the stores looking at prices of t-shirts, and even this person was astounded. Like one t-shirt was 30 something dollars that looked like it had already been through the wash 500 times.

 

[NickMaio]

Yes, what I mean by that all of them (Both HP Worlds, Pandora, and TSL) are entire lands dedicated to IP; you are in the world of the IP it’s based on in all of them. Universal's versions of lands based on IP are so much more detailed, contain more shopping/entertainment areas, have more attractions, and are overall larger.

Take for instance the original Wizarding World of Harry Potter (HP World). It has three attractions, one of which is an E-Ticket, a live performance show, and interactive show, a connecting attraction ride (the train), two dining locations, and four gift-shops/stores.

In comparison, WDW’s first attempt to immolate this concept (with Pandora), has 1 dining location, 2 attractions, 1 live performance show, and 1 shop.

Additionally, both areas replaced already existing areas, so they were both working with a finite amount of space. Despite this, HP World is so much larger than Pandora, which feels more like an alley than a land; it’s more like a small path with attractions on one side and then it’s a dead-end.

So now let’s compare Universal’s second HP World, Diagon Alley (DA), and WDW’s second IP land Toy Story Land (TSL). DA has one e-ticket attraction, 2 live performances (3 if you count the bus outside), 2 dining locations, and so many shops it’s hard to count; not to mention the train.

TSL has three attractions, one which was preexisting, 1 dining location, 1 shop. Yet again, TSL is much smaller than anything in Universal’s HP Worlds.

I think the comparison in quantity speaks for itself, but what really does it for me is the details and quality of the 2 HP Worlds. WDW is known for the details; the things you don’t really notice until you go looking for them, the great little things that have made this place so great. HP World 1&2 blow both of the IP lands in WDW away in this category. IMO, both of the IP driven lands in Universal are more detailed, and just look and feel like I’m really there. I do not, and have not, had any experience like this in Pandora or TSL. I think they are both too small, and the details just don’t do it for me. TSL feels like a carnival, and Pandora feels just out of place.

Again these are all subjective, but IMO WDW’s attempts to immolate the success of HP World using their own IPs haven’t even come close to doing so. They aren’t failures, but WDW has always had a history of ‘plusing’ things and putting their own spin on ideas already created. In this case, it hasn’t happened.

Maybe SWL will, but if they stick with this formula of making them small and with few things to offer, it’ll be interesting to see what people say.

I second this opinion - - - you actually beat me to it.
HP and UNI - - have nailed the little things. As well as trash collection. I feel that WDW has really dropped the ball on this the last few times we were there.
UNI has pay extra services - - but honestly you would never know it. They hide it so well.

 

[dieboy]

I have a sneaking suspicion, that allot of the 'dirtier' looking areas will be cleaned up come the anniversary year, and SWL opening.

Willing to bet, there will be a huge push and lots of money spent shortly before those dates.

 

[MickeyLuv'r]

Yes, what I mean by that all of them (Both HP Worlds, Pandora, and TSL) are entire lands dedicated to IP; you are in the world of the IP it’s based on in all of them. Universal's versions of lands based on IP are so much more detailed, contain more shopping/entertainment areas, have more attractions, and are overall larger.

Interesting...I wouldn't really have thought of comparing them quite this way (though I 've already read indirect references to this idea in other threads).

I long ago felt that the HP lands reminded me of the kind of creativity we used to see at WDW. Pandora isn't all bad, but it just doesn't evoke the quite same kind of excitement as the HP lands. The level of detail in the HP lands is just super. Pandora looks okay, but I don't really FEEL like I have been transported to a different place. It feels incomplete.

Though if I'm being honest, the HP merchandise prices are also too crazy high.

Mostly I just stopped looking at it. I would buy more if the prices weren't so absurd.

 

[aliceismad]

I long ago felt that the HP lands reminded me of the kind of creativity we used to see at WDW. Pandora isn't all bad, but it just doesn't evoke the quite same kind of excitement as the HP lands. The level of detail in the HP lands is just super. Pandora looks okay, but I don't really FEEL like I have been transported to a different place. It feels incomplete.

I've read some websites/blog posts about the development of both Pandora and HP and how some of the staff members went from Disney to Uni. And how Disney lost the opportunity to have HP.

 

[pax_65]

Are you kidding?? I find the exact opposite. People are way more condition to criticize than praise. Not in this case just in general.

It's a cop-out to say "Oh, well. People like to complain. That's why there's so much negativity on these boards."

I've been on these boards for many years, and there's much more negativity lately. There's a reason for that - and it's not because our culture is becoming more negative. Disney has changed.

I used to be a strong defender of Disney because I loved the parks so much. I still love the parks but I see so many things wrong. I agree with everything the OP posted.

 

[pax_65]

UNI has pay extra services - - but honestly you would never know it. They hide it so well.

I wonder if Disney WANTS the pay extra services to be visible to increase demand for them. It's a whole different mentality today.

A few years back you had EMH for resort guests, and you had private VIP tours that you probably never knew existed. But other than that, once you walked into a park you were all the same - you would have essentially the same experience whether you were staying at the Grand Floridian or the All-Star. Those days are gone.

 

[JIMINYCR]

The ticket increase doesnt bother me so much... I'll still budget & save for the trip. The more pricier merchandise.... I can choose to not purchase or be more selective when buying. I'm not bothered by paint chips or a few non working AA's. I can still enjoy my trip enough and find enough value and enjoyment in what I'm being charged compared to what I'm getting. Its the massively increasing crowds thats making it less enjoyable for us. When the time waiting in lines and the inability to move around the parks interferes with how much Im able to accomplish in a day... thats going to be my breaking point. Our last trips enjoyment was affected more by the crowd conditions than anything else.

 

[GeoffR]

The ticket increase doesnt bother me so much... I'll still budget & save for the trip. The more pricier merchandise.... I can choose to not purchase or be more selective when buying. I'm not bothered by paint chips or a few non working AA's. I can still enjoy my trip enough and find enough value and enjoyment in what I'm being charged compared to what I'm getting. Its the massively increasing crowds thats making it less enjoyable for us. When the time waiting in lines and the inability to move around the parks interferes with how much Im able to accomplish in a day... thats going to be my breaking point. Our last trips enjoyment was affected more by the crowd conditions than anything else.

And i think this brings up a good point in my own reflections, that the quality in relation to the crowds are sort of the breaking straw on the camel's back. If you had all the issues we've discussed and the parks were empty, it would 1) be less annoying because at least you could enjoy the vast number of things missed with large crowds and 2) it would make WDW want to fix these issues to bring attendance up. Again, it is wild to see the crowds with all these issues, so WDW has no motivation make things better; crowds are still coming despite prices and quality. It's really bothersome

 

[GeoffR]

I have a sneaking suspicion, that allot of the 'dirtier' looking areas will be cleaned up come the anniversary year, and SWL opening.

Willing to bet, there will be a huge push and lots of money spent shortly before those dates.

Perhaps, though the same thing was said after Shanghai's construction was complete; "now that Shanghai is complete they can start pumping money and care back into their 'home' parks. This has obviously not happened, so it's risky to think they are iust waiting until the 50th...though I hope I'm wrong

 

[dieboy]

Technically they are pumping money in locally, and i'm venturing a guess, that's consuming a fair share of their budget. Top of my head, 1 land (two if you could the recent tsl), four new rides, hotels, etc etc, a new and what i consider poorly thought out transport system ...

So they are spending loads of money, but not in the right places yet. I'm fairly certain they will do significant touch up, and be on their game for SWL and the anniversary year. Once that rolls by, most of the new rides if not all will be open, etc. Budget may start to flow back into maintenance and general park appearances.

I could go on and complain about a ton of stuff, i could knit pick it for days actually. We still go, but they do not get nearly as much money from us as they used to. WDW doesn't care as there will always be another chump to fill my shoes, but it makes me feel a bit better, and that's ultimately what matters.

What i consider the Disney phenomenon, is a weird, wild beast for sure.

 

[Nemo14]

Great thread, GeoffR and I agree with most of your points. As snowbirds,we spend a lot of time in central FL, but very little time in WDW actually because of many of the things you mentioned. We'll be in MK with our daughter and her family for a day in a couple of weeks, and as much as I'm looking forward to seeing my little granddaughter's reactions, I'm just not nearly as excited about going as I was back when my kids were that age. It will still be fun I'm sure, but different.

 

[GeoffR]

Great thread, GeoffR and I agree with most of your points. As snowbirds,we spend a lot of time in central FL, but very little time in WDW actually because of many of the things you mentioned. We'll be in MK with our daughter and her family for a day in a couple of weeks, and as much as I'm looking forward to seeing my little granddaughter's reactions, I'm just not nearly as excited about going as I was back when my kids were that age. It will still be fun I'm sure, but different.

That's actually a good point too. How much of the issues being brought up by myself and others are just based on our 'rose-colored' childhood memories? My dad's told me stories of July 4th 1992 and how nightmarish it was. I don't remember this, all I remember are the good things. Going solo opened my eyes to a lot of these issues, to go along with the fact that I'm older now. It's sort of a perfect storm of problems; WDW is going through a weird time now, prices are very high, and I'm seeing it all through adult eyes.

 

[Br’er Rabbit]

Yes, what I mean by that all of them (Both HP Worlds, Pandora, and TSL) are entire lands dedicated to IP; you are in the world of the IP it’s based on in all of them. Universal's versions of lands based on IP are so much more detailed, contain more shopping/entertainment areas, have more attractions, and are overall larger.

Take for instance the original Wizarding World of Harry Potter (HP World). It has three attractions, one of which is an E-Ticket, a live performance show, and interactive show, a connecting attraction ride (the train), two dining locations, and four gift-shops/stores.

In comparison, WDW’s first attempt to immolate this concept (with Pandora), has 1 dining location, 2 attractions, 1 live performance show, and 1 shop.

Additionally, both areas replaced already existing areas, so they were both working with a finite amount of space. Despite this, HP World is so much larger than Pandora, which feels more like an alley than a land; it’s more like a small path with attractions on one side and then it’s a dead-end.

So now let’s compare Universal’s second HP World, Diagon Alley (DA), and WDW’s second IP land Toy Story Land (TSL). DA has one e-ticket attraction, 2 live performances (3 if you count the bus outside), 2 dining locations, and so many shops it’s hard to count; not to mention the train.

TSL has three attractions, one which was preexisting, 1 dining location, 1 shop. Yet again, TSL is much smaller than anything in Universal’s HP Worlds.

I think the comparison in quantity speaks for itself, but what really does it for me is the details and quality of the 2 HP Worlds. WDW is known for the details; the things you don’t really notice until you go looking for them, the great little things that have made this place so great. HP World 1&2 blow both of the IP lands in WDW away in this category. IMO, both of the IP driven lands in Universal are more detailed, and just look and feel like I’m really there. I do not, and have not, had any experience like this in Pandora or TSL. I think they are both too small, and the details just don’t do it for me. TSL feels like a carnival, and Pandora feels just out of place.

Again these are all subjective, but IMO WDW’s attempts to immolate the success of HP World using their own IPs haven’t even come close to doing so. They aren’t failures, but WDW has always had a history of ‘plusing’ things and putting their own spin on ideas already created. In this case, it hasn’t happened.

Maybe SWL will, but if they stick with this formula of making them small and with few things to offer, it’ll be interesting to see what people say.

Seems very unfair of you to say that Harry Potter had 3 attractions and Pandora only has 2 but then when you compare Diagon Alley to Toy Story you mention that TSL has 3 rides but 1 of them was preexisting.

2 out of the 3 rides at Harry Potter were already there beforehand. So if you’re playing by your own rules, Harry Potter has 1 attraction not 3. Not to mention that you use the train as an additional attraction when that was added on years later. Also it only has 1 dining restaurant. Not 2. Not sure where you got that second restaurant from.

You also say that Diagon Alley has 3 shows but ignore the drummers in TSL as well as the meet & greets. You also again say that DA has 2 restaurants when it has 1.

You’re twisting the facts to suit your own agenda.

 

[Br’er Rabbit]

Thanks! This is helpful. I’m curious at to how Cars Land would stack up, as it’s also an IP-themed land and was built before HP.

(For the record, when Cars Land went up, I thought it was incredibly weird for Disney to devote an entire land to one IP.)

Except it’s not at all helpful as the OP is leaving things out of Disney and adding things to Universal to suit their agenda.

 

[GeoffR]

Seems very unfair of you to say that Harry Potter had 3 attractions and Pandora only has 2 but then when you compare Diagon Alley to Toy Story you mention that TSL has 3 rides but 1 of them was preexisting.

2 out of the 3 rides at Harry Potter were already there beforehand. So if you’re playing by your own rules, Harry Potter has 1 attraction not 3.

You also say that Diagon Alley has 3 shows but ignore the drummers in TSL as well as the meet & greets.

You’re twisting the facts to suit your own agenda.

I don't have an agenda lol let's not be silly. Even if you want to argue that point, then what's the counterargument for the lack of detail/size/shops/ dining locations? They both are working within preexisting regions of parks. Using preexisting attractions is something all parks have done, but Universal has somehow done them better as of late and that's very unlike Disney to be outshined like this, especially considering they saw what the standard was because HP World was done years before. Disney used to 'plus it' and they have had two missed opportunities here.