UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
Aulani is different since it's not at WDW; it's not in direct competition to other properties.
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News Reflections – A Disney Lakeside Lodge (Project 89 - Development near Fort Wilderness)
- Thread starter danlb_2000
- Start date
Aulani is different since it's not at WDW; it's not in direct competition to other properties.
UNCgolf
Well-Known Member
I wouldn't expect them to just dust off the plans and build the exact same hotel either, but I also don't see them building a new hotel that doesn't include DVC.
The permit that was extended was for general water management work so the extension would indicate they want to keep their options open to build something there, although what that is could change.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Does anyone happen to know what class of resort sells best at WDW? What do they even need more of?
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
The Cabins debacle (and by extension the "Reflectionization" of the campground) shows how tone deaf current WDW management is and underscores the complete lack of understanding they have in their own products and customer base.
If sales are indeed poor, a sizable portion of your traditional DVC customers, who prefer amenities and convenience, aren't buying in because of the perceived lack of amenities and convenience.
And a large portion of Ft. Wilderness "cabin" fans (like our family who loved the property and made multiple week-long visits each year for more than a decade), are completely turned off because the entire theme and much of what we loved about the place has been stripped away.
I'm not sure the first subset of guests could be won over by this project no matter what direction it took.
But WDW had a golden opportunity to convert a ton of cabin fans to happy DVC customers if they had just kept the theme of the cabins and campground intact.
Heck, I've always been super wary of DVC but would have signed up in a heartbeat if they'd just updated the existing cabins (or replaced them with newer versions of the same).
Ft. Wilderness isn't for everyone, but those who do like it are pretty passionate about it.
Maybe Disney has data to back up its decision, but building something that manages to alienate both sets of potential customers is certainly a head-scratcher.
If sales are indeed poor, a sizable portion of your traditional DVC customers, who prefer amenities and convenience, aren't buying in because of the perceived lack of amenities and convenience.
And a large portion of Ft. Wilderness "cabin" fans (like our family who loved the property and made multiple week-long visits each year for more than a decade), are completely turned off because the entire theme and much of what we loved about the place has been stripped away.
I'm not sure the first subset of guests could be won over by this project no matter what direction it took.
But WDW had a golden opportunity to convert a ton of cabin fans to happy DVC customers if they had just kept the theme of the cabins and campground intact.
Heck, I've always been super wary of DVC but would have signed up in a heartbeat if they'd just updated the existing cabins (or replaced them with newer versions of the same).
Ft. Wilderness isn't for everyone, but those who do like it are pretty passionate about it.
Maybe Disney has data to back up its decision, but building something that manages to alienate both sets of potential customers is certainly a head-scratcher.
Honest question: Wasn't Riviera sales poor at first?
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
No. It sold 777K points in its first 11 months vs 764K for CCV and 858K for PVB. Then a pandemic happened.
CFW sold 12K points last month which puts it on pace to sell out in the late 2030s.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
For me, the appeal of being a DVC owner is the ease with which I can stay at many different deluxe resorts.
The amenities I like are at all of the other DVCs but not the cabins. People who like the cabins already do not want or need the amenities of the other DVCs. So why would an existing DVC owner add on here and why would a cabins fan want that DVC flexibility to go to resorts they don’t prefer?
If they set a reasonable rate for cash rooms here, I’m sure those will book.
I think Reflections would do better as a DVC if it had its own dedicated transportation and the amenities other DVC resorts have.
CastAStone
5th gate? Just build a new resort Bob.
Those are two different questions. Proximity to MK has led to faster sales recently. I think what they most quickly could sell more of today is Crescent Lake, but they’ll get a whole bunch of that back in 17 years.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
Is there room for a Villas at Disney’s Yacht Club Resort? I presume not or we’d have one surely. I want to say I read that they could add more to the BCV one day.
TeriofTerror
Well-Known Member
I'd say controversial due to the idiotic resale restrictions.
ToTBellHop
Well-Known Member
I would never buy there because of them. What an awful investment.
We started with a Boulder Ridge contract and certainly intend to keep it through 2042. When we added Bay Lake, while we have no intention of selling, the ability to do so and easily find a buyer was a selling point. 36 years is a long time.
eddie104
Well-Known Member
While I’m very much mixed on the new cabins I think your post is a little overkill.
This DVC mandate is definitely something I don’t agree with from TDO and I hope it ends soon.
They are going to hit a brick wall and realize they shouldn’t put all their eggs in one basket.
mysto
Well-Known Member
When I first heard about the Riviera resale restrictions, I thought to myself they couldn't be resold at all. Basically if I buy this I'm trapped I have to keep it. And yet so many agreed to be trapped and paid for the priviledge. No wonder every resort includes DVC, the buyers are apparently in a panic.
A large portion of Port Orleans, Coronado, All Stars, are closed off. Grand Floridian, AKL, and Boardwalk Inn are perpetually vacant. Saratoga, OKW and Kidani are never tough to get a DVC reservation.
The most successful are the ones that they don’t discount.
Virtual Toad
Well-Known Member
They're essentially at opposite ends of the campground (the Reflections site is close to Pioneer Hall where River Country used to be) so not a quick stroll over from one to the other for those who don't enjoy a casual walk, bus or golf cart. It looks like new construction at the Meadows Pool area in the center of the campground may supply new amenities but no one knows for sure.
Fido Chuckwagon
Well-Known Member
CFW is also starting with insanely high maintenance fees that will only get higher. At $12.40 a point (or whatever it is, I know it’s close to that), the delta between cash booking price and maintenance dues cost is just not big enough, and that delta will only get smaller, to justify the insane upfront buy in cost. Unlike other timeshares, DVC doesn’t hard-sell its product enough to get suckers to buy given that math. Maybe DVC will start emulating the other players out there and increase its sleaze levels enough to sell this turd, but until then, it’s a turd.
Phicinfan
Well-Known Member
This will be key, they will need a seperate boat run to MK, as well as some other separate bus or ground transportation.
I am a HUGE fan of Wilderness lodge, especially to be able to hop on a boat and go directly to MK. That and the greater privacy to me would make Reflections pretty popular, as long as it has all the key amenities.
MagicRat
Well-Known Member
As someone who’s family enjoys taking a boat to the campground to ride the horses and the canoes and has DVC points but plan to purchase no more, this is great for us. The cabins are relatively cheap and add even more options for our three non direct, pre blocked-out blue card DVC purchases.