News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The issue is not because of who issued the bonds, but how the state is handling them. The concern is that the state is reneging on obligations and there are no guardrails. If they can change how the Reedy Creek bonds are secured and financed after they have been issued then they could do the same to other bonds and obligations.

This to me is the essence of why it will be kicked out of court…and the anti-business stink of it

 

[Lilofan]

Roads and parking garages and electric lines and sewers don’t generally generate income. In a pure municipal setting if the government decides a new parking garage is needed for something like a train station they build it, pay for it with bonds and then charge a parking fee to cover the debt payments. This allows the garage to be built without raising taxes on the taxpayers many of whom will never use the garage and puts the cost on the actual users of the garage. Because you can’t reach out to people who may use your garage and ask for $1,000 each up front to pay for construction (unless you own an NFL team and sell seat licenses) the way these projects get funded is through municipal bonds and slow payments for use over time that cover debt payments and future maintenance. In the case of the DS garages they chose to not charge for parking and make the taxpayers foot the bill. That would be problematic if Disney wasn’t the only taxpayer….but they are so nobody other than Disney is “harmed” but they wanted the garage in the first place so win/win.

I hope it doesn’t jinx the Disney Springs free parking garage. Chapek hasn’t started charging guests to park there yet ….

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Fitch is saying they expect the bonds to be transferred to OC/OC or BL/LBV - so perhaps this wouldn't call into question the State's credit rating?

 

[UNCgolf]

I see a lot of people saying they can repeal this provision and that. Can they actually legislate retrospectively? I didn't think that was legal.

Ex post facto laws are an explicit violation of the US Constitution. They're probably not allowed in the Florida constitution either, but it wouldn't matter because the US Constitution specifically doesn't allow states to pass them either.

They're generally related to criminal conduct, though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I see a lot of people saying they can repeal this provision and that. Can they actually legislate retrospectively? I didn't think that was legal.

That’s the big question. The legislature can change the law, but it gets complicated when you make a commitment and then take it away.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Ex post facto laws are an explicit violation of the US Constitution. They're probably not allowed in the Florida constitution either, but it wouldn't matter because the US Constitution specifically doesn't allow states to pass them either.

They're generally related to criminal conduct, though.

I still don’t understand how Anaheim was able to retroactively change their luxury hotel tax incentive.

 

[mmascari]

I don't see a way out for DeSantis at this point or even some face saving measure. His choices are to basically repeal the dissolution, or tank the Florida economy.

In the next special session, reverse what was passed in the last special session so it's back to the prior condition.

Then go out an publicly claim a victory and say whatever they want. Just call it a "win" again and again and again and that they showed Disney.

It doesn't matter if those two things agree or not.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

In the next special session, reverse what was passed in the last special session so it's back to the prior condition.

Then go out an publicly claim a victory and say whatever they want. Just call it a "win" again and again and again and that they showed Disney.

It doesn't matter if those two things agree or not.

I think they need to establish a new District with even the smallest changes to call it a win. If they revert, Disney will clearly have won.

 

[mikejs78]

I think they need to establish a new District with even the smallest changes to call it a win. If they revert, Disney will clearly have won.

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think they need to establish a new District with even the smallest changes to call it a win. If they revert, Disney will clearly have won.

I still think a new District could violate the state’s pledge since it is for the specific district. It doesn’t say the District and it’s successors.

While the rhetoric is largely detached from actuality, there was the small bit of awareness that pretense was necessary. Other districts were effected to give cover for the open retaliation. Any fix related to Reedy Creek is now a special deal for Disney. It’s the exact opposite of the claims.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I hope it doesn’t jinx the Disney Springs free parking garage. Chapek hasn’t started charging guests to park there yet ….

Well, some comforting information is that since the bonds are Ad Valorem tax bonds rather than Revenue bonds, they can't change the source of repayment to parking revenues. It doesn't mean they can't charge a parking fee (or won't in the future), just that the bonds won't be the reason.

 

[Brian]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

Thats where I see this going, more or less.

 

[flynnibus]

Fitch Ratings issues a warning to FL that financial standing could be harmed.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260873762.html

Bah… they’ll just start a campaign against credit agencies with agendas xm…. Maybe even start their own instead. That’s the model right?

 

[Willmark]

Generally speaking, politicians don’t like to actually do something, far better to promise something or “fight” something (whatever something is) and claim the following:

1. “I tried, but the other side stopped me!”
2. “We came to a mutually beneficial solution.”
3. Insert reason here.





Lastly (as I think it’s been mentioned a random thought): Disney just can’t up and move to Georgia for instance. I wonder how much that factors that Disney just can’t relocate into this spectacle.

 

[mikejs78]

It just keeps getting better. This article outlines the potential paths to a resolution, and also the pitfalls associated with each one of them. The way this was rush may really put Disney in the driver's seat to lower their tax bill.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260783972.html

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don’t believe that Disney will settle for anything but calling it “reedy creek”…even if it’s technically a new district. It’s part of their corporate history that they so love to bring up everyday

And they didn’t start any of this.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It just keeps getting better. This article outlines the potential paths to a resolution, and also the pitfalls associated with each one of them. The way this was rush may really put Disney in the driver's seat to lower their tax bill.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260783972.html

Summary for the cheapskates?

 

[flynnibus]

I really don't see how they're going to do this. Fitch basically said that the only viable solution is to reconstitute the district, maybe with a different administrative structure, but with all the powers and rights that it had before.

Now, DeSantis could try to put in a district that has administration from the counties or from the state as opposed to the Disney elected administrators, but that would run afoul of the homestead guarantee in the Florida Constitution.

I don't see a way out for DeSantis at this point or even some face saving measure. His choices are to basically repeal the dissolution, or tank the Florida economy.

My guess is their simple strategy is to define a new district, in the same spot, make the law say it rolls all obligations, but has new scope and somehow redefine the admin so disney doesn’t get to own all the admin positions.

How you get there is kinda messy… there are a lot of requirements and ifs and buts in the law and state constitution now around how these get created. But I’d bet money that’s their plan. RCID II - under new management

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

But I was looking forward to a nuclear plant with mouse ears!

 

[mmascari]

Establish a new district without the ability to run a nuclear power plant. Call it a victory.

I still think a new District could violate the state’s pledge since it is for the specific district. It doesn’t say the District and it’s successors.

While the rhetoric is largely detached from actuality, there was the small bit of awareness that pretense was necessary. Other districts were effected to give cover for the open retaliation. Any fix related to Reedy Creek is now a special deal for Disney. It’s the exact opposite of the claims.

They could undo the currently passed that dissolves. Introduce new legislation that modifies all special districts that were previously granted rights to nuclear power plants with some new constraint. Existing district still exists, solves the bond problem and all the collateral damage. How many could there be? Plus, it's not like any were probably using that right.

Publicly decree from on high at every media outlet possible that they "put Disney in it's place" by modifying the district's rights.

Just gloss over what those modifications are, it's all go forward and eliminates all the bond issues. It's not like the media is big on nuance reporting.

The point being, the best case scenario for FL is to just undo what was passed. The best case political scenario is to keep saying whatever they want and not care about any reality.