News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[mikejs78]

That’s probably the goal…”take it down” and change nothing…

Just words…since day one.

Hearing them double down on this, I actually am now changing my opinion and think they really thought that they could take this thing down and take down Disney, and own them. It's not going to work out the way they think.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

Can they even tighten that though? Fitch basically said they needed to have all the same construction and planning powers as they did before.

Maybe they can tighten how projects affect revenue of a business. The Disney Springs parking garages being built tax free is a good example of a project viewed problematic.

 

[GoofGoof]

How people handle “Disneys public politics” is by not going. Just like any other business.. if you dont like what they say or who they support etc.. is by using the power of your money by not supporting them. Not by retaliation.

I have been saying this all along. I would have no problem with DeSantis making statements against Disney. It would be within his rights to even call for a boycott. If he feels Disney‘s comments on this legislation were inappropriate that’s the proper way to handle it. What I have a big problem with is when elected officials use the power of the government that has been given to them by the people to attack and/or harm a political adversary. It’s right out of Putin Russia minus the poison. It’s never OK for a government to use taxes as a punishment on a person or company that has a different political opinion. Anyone who looks at this objectively can see that but some have blinders on.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Hearing them double down on this, I actually am now changing my opinion and think they really thought that they could take this thing down and take down Disney, and own them. It's not going to work out the way they think.

There are few brands that the United States have a legitimate reason to protect for its worldwide prevelance and stature.

You’re looking at one of them

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Maybe they can tighten how projects affect revenue of a business. The Disney Springs parking garages being built tax free is a good example of a project viewed problematic.

Disney will not finance those kinda”non-sexy” things on its ledger. Will. Not.

 

[mikejs78]

I have been saying this all along. I would have no problem with DeSantis making statements against Disney. It would be within his rights to even call for a boycott. If he feels Disney‘s comments on this legislation were inappropriate that’s the proper way to handle it. What I have a big problem with is when elected officials use the power of the government that has been given to them by the people to attack and/or harm a political adversary. It’s right out of Putin Russia minus the poison. It’s never OK for a government to use taxes as a punishment on a person or company that has a different political opinion. Anyone who looks at this objectively can see that but some have blinders on.

100% agree with this. DeSantis is entitled to the same freedom of speech that Disney is. It's perfectly legitimate for him to make claims of Disney being too woke and promote the idea of a boycott. Free speech goes both ways.

But it's completely illegitimate to use the power of the state to retaliate because someone expressed an opinion.

 

[GoofGoof]

A lot of DeSantis’ plan hinges on the creation of a new district (which he more or less admitted to last night). What if Disney says no? Why would they agree to a district that simply costs them money but offers nothing else? He has to give something in return.

If a new district is created and the new district covers RCID land then the same exact taxpayers are covered (pretty much Disney and a handful of others). 100% of the taxes paid to RCID are used for “stuff” at WDW. So if Disney pays more taxes the more taxes would go to the new district and the new district only pays for “stuff“ at WDW then how exactly is that different than RCID? Disney would only say no if they lost control. For example if they tried to establish a new district with independent board members that would be a hard no. Imagine being the sole tax payer but having some other people decide how the money would be spent.

 

[GoofGoof]

Maybe they can tighten how projects affect revenue of a business. The Disney Springs parking garages being built tax free is a good example of a project viewed problematic.

Roads and parking garages and electric lines and sewers don’t generally generate income. In a pure municipal setting if the government decides a new parking garage is needed for something like a train station they build it, pay for it with bonds and then charge a parking fee to cover the debt payments. This allows the garage to be built without raising taxes on the taxpayers many of whom will never use the garage and puts the cost on the actual users of the garage. Because you can’t reach out to people who may use your garage and ask for $1,000 each up front to pay for construction (unless you own an NFL team and sell seat licenses) the way these projects get funded is through municipal bonds and slow payments for use over time that cover debt payments and future maintenance. In the case of the DS garages they chose to not charge for parking and make the taxpayers foot the bill. That would be problematic if Disney wasn’t the only taxpayer….but they are so nobody other than Disney is “harmed” but they wanted the garage in the first place so win/win.

 

[GimpYancIent]

I really don't see how they're going to do this. Fitch basically said that the only viable solution is to reconstitute the district, maybe with a different administrative structure, but with all the powers and rights that it had before.

Now, DeSantis could try to put in a district that has administration from the counties or from the state as opposed to the Disney elected administrators, but that would run afoul of the homestead guarantee in the Florida Constitution.

I don't see a way out for DeSantis at this point or even some face saving measure. His choices are to basically repeal the dissolution, or tank the Florida economy.

One thing is for sure the Florida economy is too diverse for this RCID issue to cause it to tank. Exaggerations are not helpful.

 

[lazyboy97o]

One thing is for sure the Florida economy is too diverse for this RCID issue to cause it to tank. Exaggerations are not helpful.

It’s not an exaggeration. This has nothing to do with the diversity of the economy. Negative comments regarding Florida bonds will effect the economy, actual action like downgrades would be incredibly serious.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Hearing them double down on this, I actually am now changing my opinion and think they really thought that they could take this thing down and take down Disney, and own them. It's not going to work out the way they think.

They need a Mike Ehrmentraut around to advise them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

One thing is for sure the Florida economy is too diverse for this RCID issue to cause it to tank. Exaggerations are not helpful.

“Tank” is probably to severe

But cost everyone in Florida a ton in the short and long term?? Absolutely

It will also have a effect on tourism…tourists don’t want their week off to represent a “political statement”

 

[mikejs78]

“Tank” is probably to severe

But cost everyone in Florida a **** ton in the short and long term?? Absolutely

It will also have a effect on tourism…tourists don’t want their week off to represent a “political statement”

If FLs bond ratings get lowered as a result of this, it could very well severely impact their economy.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

Roads and parking garages and electric lines and sewers don’t generally generate income. In a pure municipal setting if the government decides a new parking garage is needed for something like a train station they build it, pay for it with bonds and then charge a parking fee to cover the debt payments. This allows the garage to be built without raising taxes on the taxpayers many of whom will never use the garage and puts the cost on the actual users of the garage. Because you can’t reach out to people who may use your garage and ask for $1,000 each up front to pay for construction (unless you own an NFL team and sell seat licenses) the way these projects get funded is through municipal bonds and slow payments for use over time that cover debt payments and future maintenance. In the case of the DS garages they chose to not charge for parking and make the taxpayers foot the bill. That would be problematic if Disney wasn’t the only taxpayer….but they are so nobody other than Disney is “harmed” but they wanted the garage in the first place so win/win.

Also, the Disney Springs parking garages don't just benefit Disney. RCID taxpayers include AMC Theaters, Planet Hollywood, Landry's Restaurants (Rainforest Café and T-Rex), plus the non-Disney hotels such as Hilton, Doubletree, B Resort, etc. All of those taxpayers benefit from the existence of Disney Springs and its parking garages (the theaters and restaurants because they're IN Disney Springs, and the hotels because their proximity to Disney Springs makes them an attractive hotel option).

 

[LuvtheGoof]

Fitch Ratings issues a warning to FL that financial standing could be harmed.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/politics-government/state-politics/article260873762.html

I'm sure it's just a matter of time before Moody's and S&P issue similar statements. This shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone - yet somehow I'm sure that none of the people voting for or signing the bill saw it coming.

I think the people at RCID should be talking with the Fitch Ratings and others about tanking the Florida rating as well. You don't downgrade the states largest employer and largest taxpayer without repercussions to the state as well. If it gets downgraded, you'd see the bill reversed quickly if the idiots there realized that they just killed their state.

 

[TalkingHead]

A flock of legal eagles is involved in working through the RCID situation to achieve a resolution. Exciting on T.V. or movies but actually boring, time consuming and minutely detailed. The public TWDC image is now tarnished with the senior management team's continued misjudgments and decisions a new team is necessitated to replace the existing team to show a cleanup and movement to again becoming the gold standard in entertainment. As for the parks an adjustment to a reasonable pricing model and return to providing a unique guest experience and not being like everyone else is also needed. Right now, the speculation is interesting to read about, but it will be a wait before actual results emerge from any legal actions.

Did you even read what I wrote? I said legal responses to RCID legislation are not the same as public responses to the political attacks on the company’s image. The latter is what TWDC is mismanaging. That has nothing to do with park pricing, etc. The bigger and far more significant story here is how the political discourse is tarnishing the company’s brand. TWDC seems to think if it’s ignored it’ll go away. If anything, the last five years should tell us bad dishonest things don’t just go away when you ignore them.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I think the people at RCID should be talking with the Fitch Ratings and others about tanking the Florida rating as well. You don't downgrade the states largest employer and largest taxpayer without repercussions to the state as well. If it gets downgraded, you'd see the bill reversed quickly if the idiots there realized that they just killed their state.

“Tank to profit” has been employed more and more in the US…especially in the 21st century

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think the people at RCID should be talking with the Fitch Ratings and others about tanking the Florida rating as well. You don't downgrade the states largest employer and largest taxpayer without repercussions to the state as well. If it gets downgraded, you'd see the bill reversed quickly if the idiots there realized that they just killed their state.

The issue is not because of who issued the bonds, but how the state is handling them. The concern is that the state is reneging on obligations and there are no guardrails. If they can change how the Reedy Creek bonds are secured and financed after they have been issued then they could do the same to other bonds and obligations.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The issue is not because of who issued the bonds, but how the state is handling them. The concern is that the state is reneging on obligations and there are no guardrails. If they can change how the Reedy Creek bonds are secured and financed after they have been issued then they could do the same to other bonds and obligations.

This to me is the essence of why it will be kicked out of court…and the anti-business stink of it

 

[Lilofan]

Roads and parking garages and electric lines and sewers don’t generally generate income. In a pure municipal setting if the government decides a new parking garage is needed for something like a train station they build it, pay for it with bonds and then charge a parking fee to cover the debt payments. This allows the garage to be built without raising taxes on the taxpayers many of whom will never use the garage and puts the cost on the actual users of the garage. Because you can’t reach out to people who may use your garage and ask for $1,000 each up front to pay for construction (unless you own an NFL team and sell seat licenses) the way these projects get funded is through municipal bonds and slow payments for use over time that cover debt payments and future maintenance. In the case of the DS garages they chose to not charge for parking and make the taxpayers foot the bill. That would be problematic if Disney wasn’t the only taxpayer….but they are so nobody other than Disney is “harmed” but they wanted the garage in the first place so win/win.

I hope it doesn’t jinx the Disney Springs free parking garage. Chapek hasn’t started charging guests to park there yet ….