News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The precise reason he got rid of a politics discussion was because of arm chair political quarter backing? Isn't that what all political commentary is? Btw, that was NOT the reason that thread went away.....

I believe the EPA deemed it “totally toxic”??

I agree with that decision. On one hand, adults should be able to handle it…on the other, they never will. Politics are mean and spiteful by nature.

And I never set foot on that forum once…I just knew the limits.

However - some things you can’t avoid. This RCID/Florida thing is that to a T.

 

[Dranth]

Here we go again with the condescending attitude that stupid hicks don't know what's good for them. They're getting conned by right-wingers and tent revivalists until they believe all the lies that've made them so wrong. They don't know any better. That's why they're voting against their own self-interest. While the enlightened are the educated, coastal, and professional democrat

Of course stupid hicks don’t know what is best for them, as you said, their stupid, Now average or intelligent hicks I’m sure can figure things out well enough.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Actually, there was. FL didn't have the means to build the municipal infrastructure for a theme park resort.

All they had to do for the land recovery use and build a theme park resort was apply for permits and for the counties to approve them., They wouldn't have been asking the local counties to actually do it, just approve it. With that approval process in the bag it stopped Disney from having to justify their every decision. It never would have any related costs because all the improvements were on private property and the deal quite possibly might have been "if you let us do this we won't push for any additional financial support from the state".

In my mind, if it wasn't for the need to have complete control over the the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow they had no need for that much autonomy. But they sure as hell did if they were even mildly thinking about building a city. Having that autonomy though perhaps sped up the process and only needing their own approval at that time was much easier. It is really questionable if it is needed now. So it might be no problem at all, but, Ronny was trying to make points and show is toughness. I think it may have backfired big time. Time will tell.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

All they had to do for the land recovery use and build a theme park resort was apply for permits and for the counties to approve them., They wouldn't have been asking the local counties to actually do it, just approve it. With that approval process in the bag it stopped Disney from having to justify their every decision. It never would have any related costs because all the improvements were on private property and the deal quite possibly might have been "if you let us do this we won't push for any additional financial support from the state".

In my mind, if it wasn't for the need to have complete control over the the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow they had no need for that much autonomy. But they sure as hell did if they were even mildly thinking about building a city. Having that autonomy though perhaps sped up the process and only needing their own approval at that time was much easier. It is really questionable if it is needed now. So it might be no problem at all, but, Ronny was trying to make points and show is toughness. I think it may have backfired big time. Time will tell.

Remember you’re talking about 60 year ago…

Florida was backwards then. It was mostly empty.

And do you remember how “officials” operated in those days?? Well the stories weren’t a myth. You had to pay them. It was what it was.

RCID was as much the guarantee of autonomy as it was a tangible advantage. It cost the locals nothing. It’s really silly to debate something that has worked

 

[lazyboy97o]

All they had to do for the land recovery use and build a theme park resort was apply for permits and for the counties to approve them., They wouldn't have been asking the local counties to actually do it, just approve it. With that approval process in the bag it stopped Disney from having to justify their every decision. It never would have any related costs because all the improvements were on private property and the deal quite possibly might have been "if you let us do this we won't push for any additional financial support from the state".

In my mind, if it wasn't for the need to have complete control over the the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow they had no need for that much autonomy. But they sure as hell did if they were even mildly thinking about building a city. Having that autonomy though perhaps sped up the process and only needing their own approval at that time was much easier. It is really questionable if it is needed now. So it might be no problem at all, but, Ronny was trying to make points and show is toughness. I think it may have backfired big time. Time will tell.

Phase 1 was a massive engineering and construction project well beyond some simple building permits. There’s an entire water management infrastructure that was built out.

And again, just read the legislation and Supreme Court ruling. They’re about developing tourism. EPCOT and the industrial park were supposed to be showcases people would visit, they would have been tourist attractions.

 

[mikejs78]

All they had to do for the land recovery use and build a theme park resort was apply for permits and for the counties to approve them., They wouldn't have been asking the local counties to actually do it, just approve it. With that approval process in the bag it stopped Disney from having to justify their every decision. It never would have any related costs because all the improvements were on private property and the deal quite possibly might have been "if you let us do this we won't push for any additional financial support from the state".

In my mind, if it wasn't for the need to have complete control over the the Experimental Prototype Community of Tomorrow they had no need for that much autonomy. But they sure as hell did if they were even mildly thinking about building a city. Having that autonomy though perhaps sped up the process and only needing their own approval at that time was much easier. It is really questionable if it is needed now. So it might be no problem at all, but, Ronny was trying to make points and show is toughness. I think it may have backfired big time. Time will tell.

In the 60s in FL there were no roads. There was no infrastructure. There was no electrical grid to support Disney's theme park. It just didn't exist. All the municipal services that would be needed to build something the scale of WDW would have had to be funded by the taxpayer - of which there weren't many.

 

[lazyboy97o]

In the 60s in FL there were no roads. There was no infrastructure. There was no electrical grid to support Disney's theme park. It just didn't exist. All the municipal services that would be needed to build something the scale of WDW would have had to be funded by the taxpayer - of which there weren't many.

Orange County was not even up to doing improvements on SR 535. Disney though was pretty gross in their handling of that situation, the “Arrive alive on 535” campaign.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Phase 1 was a massive engineering and construction project well beyond some simple building permits. There’s an entire water management infrastructure that was built out.

And again, just read the legislation and Supreme Court ruling. They’re about developing tourism. EPCOT and the industrial park were supposed to be showcases people would visit, they would have been tourist attractions.

That’s an excellent point. The water system and amount of terraforming that had to be done was enough to let them be. They drained a lake…refilled it…built one from scratch…built a system of channels and lochs…


Yeah…didn’t need Cletus from Kissimmee showing up for inspections

 

[Polkadotdress]

So Rep. Roach not only doesn’t know about the EPCOT Building Code, he is also unaware that individual county codes were done away with over 20 years ago with the introduction of the Florida Building Code.

He also apparently isn't aware that Disney actually builds over code in a lot of case. In particular they build to a 220mph hurricane rating on all structures and they way over do it on Electrical as well. If you have ever seen back stage you will understand just how impressive some of this stuff is from an engineering standpoint.

There really should be a written test with a minimum passing score of 90% in order to run for public office. Seriously, how can someone be that clueless about the laws he's supposed to vote on? Unless . . . he's intentionally lying because he knows people don't fact-check and will just believe whatever he says because of his party affiliation. Nah. Couldn't be.

Further down on that Twitter thread, Rep Roach reminds everyone of the importance of buildings inspections by likening the potential oversight at Disney equal to another Surfside scenario.

Are. You. Kidding. Me.

???????

 

[lazyboy97o]

Further down on that Twitter thread, Rep Roach reminds everyone of the importance of buildings inspections by likening the potential oversight at Disney equal to another Surfside scenario.

Are. You. Kidding. Me.

???????

I know not every representative can know everything about the state, but it just goes to show the complete lack of research that went into this effort. The whole thing is based around bad assumptions. The state had already determined there were serious issues with code enforcement and compliance following Hurricane Andrew. It is a major reason why the legislature replaced the system of locally adopted codes with the single Florida Building Code. The 40 year recertification process is also a whole lot less frequent than the annual inspections carried out by Reedy Creek. And it’s not like this information is buried in archives. A phone call to someone at the Florida Building Commission or the Orlando AIA likely would have provided third party information on how things are working.

 

[Prince-1]

wait…this thing is up to 218 pages?!?

Why? Reedy Creek is not going away. Nor do any of the politicians expect it to…

This is a straight up political circus. Move along.

I always like when someone says to close a thread or to "move along" yet they keep posting in it. Reminds of people complaining about being stuck in traffic and forgetting that they are actually part of that traffic.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I know not every representative can know everything about the state, but it just goes to show the complete lack of research that went into this effort. The whole thing is based around bad assumptions. The state had already determined there were serious issues with code enforcement and compliance following Hurricane Andrew. It is a major reason why the legislature replaced the system of locally adopted codes with the single Florida Building Code. The 40 year recertification process is also a whole lot less frequent than the annual inspections carried out by Reedy Creek. And it’s not like this information is buried in archives. A phone call to someone at the Florida Building Commission or the Orlando AIA likely would have provided third party information on how things are working.

On a related/unrelated note…I saw two pundits (one sorts left one right…but neither extreme) talk about Disney and FHB 1557 last week…

And the “conservative”‘said twice that people in Florida “would have appreciated if Disney didn’t bow to its SIX OVERLY WOKE EMPLOYEES”…

Said it once…was corrected…said it again.

That really hit home for me. The talking point/narrative just has no sense of reality of what it’s attacking. 6 woke employees . Guess nobody other than me has actually taken a global look at the staff and customers at Disney parks?

Anyway…that is the best example I can give of why this is such a nonsense mess. It’s a spectacle fit of Jerry springer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I always like when someone says to close a thread or to "move along" yet they keep posting in it. Reminds of people complaining about being stuck in traffic and forgetting that they are actually part of that traffic.

It’s just so “juicy”…

But fear not…my satellite will be over the horizon on this one soon enough 🛰

 

[Goofyernmost]

Remember you’re talking about 60 year ago…

Florida was backwards then. It was mostly empty.

And do you remember how “officials” operated in those days?? Well the stories weren’t a myth. You had to pay them. It was what it was.

RCID was as much the guarantee of autonomy as it was a tangible advantage. It cost the locals nothing. It’s really silly to debate something that has worked

How does that differ from today. You don't really think that politicians do it for the love of country do you?

Yes, it was backwards then, but since it was that made it even more important because it didn't cost locals anything (at the time) so why even do it to begin with? Future control. Of what? An entire community, not a theme park.

Phase 1 was a massive engineering and construction project well beyond some simple building permits. There’s an entire water management infrastructure that was built out.

And again, just read the legislation and Supreme Court ruling. They’re about developing tourism. EPCOT and the industrial park were supposed to be showcases people would visit, they would have been tourist attractions.

I don't care what the ruling was at the time or the complexity of the engineering, it was the what what the actual unspoken motivation that I'm talking about. Of course it is going to read how it reads but they would have been given the approval anyway. The state was never going to even have the revenue to undertake a project like that so Disney gave it a name and a power that could be used for future things connected to the tourist attraction but not the reason. To me it is what they were thinking at TWDC not what they were telling Florida it was.

Yes, showcases, but it was much more than that in Walt's mind. It was a utopia, controlled by him to be a perfect example of urban planning but also a dictatorship of a small community run by him completely. You are assuming that Walt didn't have a more devious side that he wasn't telling the Florida officials. It wasn't intended to be evil in anyway, but it was going to be very autocratic in nature, while being officially labeled as developing tourism.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

How does that differ from today. You don't really think that politicians do it for the love of country do you?

Yes, it was backwards then, but since it was that made it even more important because it didn't cost locals anything (at the time) so why even do it to begin with? Future control. Of what? An entire community, not a theme park.

I don't care what the ruling was at the time or the complexity of the engineering, it was the what what the actual unspoken motivation that I'm talking about. Of course it is going to read how it reads but they would have been given the approval anyway. The state was never going to even have the revenue to undertake a project like that so Disney gave it a name and a power that could be used for future things connected to the tourist attraction but not the reason. To me it is what they were thinking at TWDC not what they were telling Florida it was.

Yes, showcases, but it was much more than that in Walt's mind. It was a utopia, controlled by him to be a perfect example of urban planning but also a dictatorship of a small community run by him completely. You are assuming that Walt didn't have a more devious side that he wasn't telling the Florida officials. It wasn't intended to be evil in anyway, but it was going to be very autocratic in nature, while being officially labeled as developing tourism.

I’m not saying it’s too much different. They just have to find ways to “legalize” the impropriety now. Big brother is always watching…his eyes are sold at Home Depot for $69.99

 

[Sir_Cliff]

He is a rather novice politician looking for fame…and at the end of the day - donations for campaigns and PACs…lucrative “consulting” jobs for the rest of his days.

Florida is not going to “stick it” to their biggest tax generator.

And again…it was done for cover of a gerrymander district map that’s going to get struck down in court anyway…

I wouldn't be so sure the economic logic would win out over the political one in this case. DeSantis was just saying the other day he is worried about companies moving from liberal states and bringing their employees who vote for left-wing policies to Florida. You can see the narrative being formed should Disney cancel Lake Nona or see its business impacted by an intransigent state government determined to punish them: less California liberals is good for Florida and a warning to other companies that if you go woke, you go broke. WDW 'going broke' is a win, in other words.

The communities most impacted don't lean Republican anyway and Disney isn't so financially important to these politicians that the political cost of losing them is necessarily greater than the benefit of using Disney to rile up their base and get donations from elsewhere.

The courts are another issue and I think that's where we're likely to see all of this struck down... eventually. Perhaps the threat of imminent legal challenges will be enough to lead to negotiations. Even there, the courts are becoming so politicised that who the hell knows and I certainly wouldn't hold out much faith that cooler heads will prevail among those who pushed this bill in the first place.

In short, I wouldn't bet too much on "it'll never happen" as any logic beyond the political one has gone out the window in this case.

 

[Goofyernmost]

In the 60s in FL there were no roads. There was no infrastructure. There was no electrical grid to support Disney's theme park. It just didn't exist. All the municipal services that would be needed to build something the scale of WDW would have had to be funded by the taxpayer - of which there weren't many.

Not True, I-4 existed and so did Rte 192 both connecting with I-75 and was a key factor in the location decision. Walt himself stated that when he saw where those highways intersected he knew that was the place.

Granted the infrastructure was nothing like it is today and Orlando and Kissimmee were just farming communities, but the backbone was there.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

Nope it's the precise reason that Steve axed the politics section. Every side believes it has some special insight or moral imperative that places it's position above all others. That's between them and their makers to be judged on.

I really don’t believe “their makers” , whatever maker they happen to believe in, cares one iota about this. Just a feeling.

 

[networkpro]

I really don’t believe “their makers” , whatever maker they happen to believe in, cares one iota about this. Just a feeling.

Much nicer than Novit enim Dominus qui sunt eius

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I wouldn't be so sure the economic logic would win out over the political one in this case. DeSantis was just saying the other day he is worried about companies moving from liberal states and bringing their employees who vote for left-wing policies to Florida. You can see the narrative being formed should Disney cancel Lake Nona or see its business impacted by an intransigent state government determined to punish them: less California liberals is good for Florida and a warning to other companies that if you go woke, you go broke. WDW 'going broke' is a win, in other words.

The communities most impacted don't lean Republican anyway and Disney isn't so financially important to these politicians that the political cost of losing them is necessarily greater than the benefit of using Disney to rile up their base and get donations from elsewhere.

The courts are another issue and I think that's where we're likely to see all of this struck down... eventually. Perhaps the threat of imminent legal challenges will be enough to lead to negotiations. Even there, the courts are becoming so politicised that who the hell knows and I certainly wouldn't hold out much faith that cooler heads will prevail among those who pushed this bill in the first place.

In short, I wouldn't bet too much on "it'll never happen" as any logic beyond the political one has gone out the window in this case.

Again…that’s a “novice” move. You don’t spout on camera. Amateurs.