News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[gorillaball]

For comparison, Domestic Parks & Resorts Capex from 2011 to 2020 (i.e. pre-COVID) was $21.5B. That includes 2 cruise ships plus money spent at DL. However, P&R domestic numbers are dominated by WDW. Of that $21.5B, at least $17B was spent at WDW.

Domestic P&R depreciation was all the way up to $1.68B in 2022. Some of that depreciation will be on the ships, some will be at DL. Perhaps $1.2B per year will be at WDW. Adjust that for forward-looking inflation and, over 10 years, most of the $17B that Iger mentioned will be for upkeep.

Still, there will be some left for theme park improvements. Maybe a land or two (like the replacement for Dinoland) and perhaps two or three new attractions elsewhere. More DVCs for sure. Also, more non-theme park development.

But we don't know if the $17B includes maintenance capex correct? With the 13,000 job figure you'd think it would have a pretty high portion devoted to capital improvements. But I'll also concede it's pretty easy to play with employment numbers too, 13,000 permanent employees vs 13,000 employees at various times for different projects... Per Forbes Disney employed 5,500 temporary workers in the construction of Galaxy's Edge at WDW alone.

The devil is in the details and we don't have the details.

 

[GoofGoof]

For comparison, Domestic Parks & Resorts Capex from 2011 to 2020 (i.e. pre-COVID) was $21.5B. That includes 2 cruise ships plus money spent at DL. However, P&R domestic numbers are dominated by WDW. Of that $21.5B, at least $17B was spent at WDW.

Domestic P&R depreciation was all the way up to $1.68B in 2022. Some of that depreciation will be on the ships, some will be at DL. Perhaps $1.2B per year will be at WDW. Adjust that for forward-looking inflation and, over 10 years, most of the $17B that Iger mentioned will be for upkeep.

Still, there will be some left for theme park improvements. Maybe a land or two (like the replacement for Dinoland) and perhaps two or three new attractions elsewhere. More DVCs for sure. Also, more non-theme park development.

Agreed. $17B sounds on its face like enough for a 5th gate but when you factor in how much they spend annually just on upkeep it’s not much more than probably a handful of new rides and maybe a new land or 2. The point is that it’s not a fanboy fantasy or a PR stunt that the company will spend $17B at WDW over the next 10 years. It‘s pretty likely to be in the ballpark of what they do invest.

With the $17B they also mentioned 13,000 jobs which means there is likely to be more to it than just upkeep. I still think some of that is ramp up to pre-Covid levels but there’s likely to be new jobs created as well.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Okay, I heard back from some people and I think I know what you're getting at.

In the state's lawsuit, Count VI on page 24 says this:
View attachment 714390

I highlighted "discretionary legislative power" because I was told that is an unusual phrase

In fact, it appears in exactly once Florida case: Morgran Company vs Orange County (2002)

Page 643, paragraph 4 of that ruling seems to hint where the state is going with this:

View attachment 714392

Okay, so what the court is saying here is that Orange County couldn't enter into this developer agreement and promise whatever for zoning requirements, because in future disputes it would have already bound itself to a decision.

BUT (there's always a but), my lawyer friends point out that Orange County is not a special district. (You knew that was going to come into play, @ParentsOf4. You just knew it.)

There's no clear-cut case involving special districts and FL 163.3227 for delegation, but since special districts are not legislative bodies under Florida law, the developer agreement might not be subject to the discretionary legislative authority claim. Or so I'm told.

It's also worth noting that the "novel and experimental" nature of RCID is explicitly mentioned in the RCID charter, and that SDs are encouraged to try new development approaches to guard against future uncertainty. I expect that to come up in any Disney response.

The key issue noted in your quoted section is that the development agreement committed the county to support rezoning the property. That’s an important distinction. It’s absolutely something that should have been done first because the whole point of a development agreement is to lock in existing zoning.

Disney and the District locked in existing zoning. Zoning that has largely existed for years. They didn’t even use the nebulous master planned development zoning in use at places like Universal Orlando Resort, SeaWorld Orlando and The Villages that gives very wide latitude to the property owner on how to develop their property. Florida literally has a “Whatever” zoning classification and they didn’t switch to that and give it Disney.

The District also has not identified a true need. They’ve alluded to affordable housing but they haven’t actually done the work to make that an official planning position. The District is also largely zoned for commercial and mixed use, and now under state law affordable housing is allowed in those zoning areas. There is no actual conflict with the hypothetical future goals of the District, unless of course the real issue is their inability to seize land and put it to such uses because the covenants are really the problem and prevent them from doing just that.

 

[Disstevefan1]

But we don't know if the $17B includes maintenance capex correct? With the 13,000 job figure you'd think it would have a pretty high portion devoted to capital improvements. But I'll also concede it's pretty easy to play with employment numbers too, 13,000 permanent employees vs 13,000 employees at various times for different projects... Per Forbes Disney employed 5,500 temporary workers in the construction of Galaxy's Edge at WDW alone.

The devil is in the details and we don't have the details.

Iger said TWDC "plans" to spend $17B on WDW........ With what's happening now, who knows.......... THANKS RON!

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Iger said TWDC "plans" to spend $17B on WDW........ With what's happening now, who knows.......... THANKS RON!

Iger announced the 17B during a shareholders meeting in which he called DeSantis “anti-business”.

Iger vows $17B Disney World expansion, calls DeSantis ‘anti-business’

Disney plans to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years and create 13,000 new jobs, CEO Bob Iger says.

www.orlandosentinel.com

As others have mentioned, as much as I’m sure Disney would like to hurt the state, withholding expansions & $$$ will just hurt their business.

 

[hopemax]

So I am now on vacation, in DC, first visit. We are at the Off the Record Bar in the Hay-Adams. And my coaster is appropriate for this thread!

 

[Andrew C]

Iger announced the 17B during a shareholders meeting in which he called DeSantis “anti-business”.

Iger vows $17B Disney World expansion, calls DeSantis ‘anti-business’

Disney plans to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years and create 13,000 new jobs, CEO Bob Iger says.

www.orlandosentinel.com

As others have mentioned, as much as I’m sure Disney would like to hurt the state, withholding expansions & $$$ will just hurt their business.

I’m sure a recession will happen and they will cut back accordingly per usual.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

I’m sure a recession will happen and they will cut back accordingly per usual.

Well let’s not hope for a recession.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Iger announced the 17B during a shareholders meeting in which he called DeSantis “anti-business”.

Iger vows $17B Disney World expansion, calls DeSantis ‘anti-business’

Disney plans to invest $17 billion in Walt Disney World over the next 10 years and create 13,000 new jobs, CEO Bob Iger says.

www.orlandosentinel.com

As others have mentioned, as much as I’m sure Disney would like to hurt the state, withholding expansions & $$$ will just hurt their business.

I watched the meeting; I heard and saw him say it.

The logical side of my brain says its good business to invest in WDW that is actually making money for the company.

The emotional side of my brain can understand if Iger changes his plans due to Ron DeSantis "extenuating circumstances".

 

[DCBaker]

 

[Lilofan]

I’m sure a recession will happen and they will cut back accordingly per usual.

Let me know when it happens in advance so I can short my stocks and make off with a hefty profit and then buy on the dip. There are some who profit in challenging times.

 

[Andrew C]

Well let’s not hope for a recession.

We can hope it won’t be bad. But it’s always coming…unfortunately

 

[peter11435]

I watched the meeting; I heard and saw him say it.

The logical side of my brain says its good business to invest in WDW that is actually making money for the company.

The emotional side of my brain can understand if Iger changes his plans due to Ron DeSantis "extenuating circumstances".

You saw him say it?

 

[Disstevefan1]

You saw him say it?

Yes, the meeting was streamed on YouTube. You didn't watch it?

 

[MagicHappens1971]

You saw him say it?

I thought the shareholder meetings were audio only but I could be wrong

 

[Tha Realest]

Per the private nondelegation doctrine, the state legislature in 1967 could not delegate its power directly to Disney. It had to create a "local government" to do this.

So is the theory that, on the way out the door, the RCID-WDPR development agreement violated the private nondelegation doctrine by conferring its power off to a private entity?

 

[mightynine]

If the state’s gonna “inspect” the Monorails, can they include an A/C person on the crew? Get’s kinda warm on that highway in the sky sometimes.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I thought the shareholder meetings were audio only but I could be wrong

Hmmm, you know, I think you are right, I listened to the meeting on YouTube Streamed by as Vlogger, but I definitely heard it, maybe his face wasn't on the screen.

So, I heard him say in on YouTube Thanks for keeping me in check.

Now please assure me WDW will get the $17B

 

[seascape]

.Going back to the 1960's rember there are records showing without the RCID being approved Disney would sell the the property for a profit. The entire history of the property and Florida will be part of this case. Disney has been a wonderful partner with the 2 counties and the State. All Disney is asking for is to be treated like a good partner and what the State is doing is trying to harm them.

 

[Disstevefan1]

.Going back to the 1960's rember there are records showing without the RCID being approved Disney would sell the the property for a profit. The entire history of the property and Florida will be part of this case. Disney has been a wonderful partner with the 2 counties and the State. All Disney is asking for is to be treated like a good partner and what the State is doing is trying to harm them.

Flarida and WDW were EXCELLENT partners for over 50 years, and that is why the state let them be.

Folks want to blame political parties; folks want to blame the voters (as if they literally voted for this cr@p).

That is just shifting blame away from the one and ONLY person that is to blame - DeSantis.