News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

scottieRoss

Well-Known Member
Each branch of government has its own nondelegation clause in the Constitution. Per the text in the Constitution, one branch of government is not supposed to delegate its power to another branch.

However, the Supreme Court has allowed powers to be delegated between branches or to government agencies so often that any restriction on public delegation is meaningless.

This is different than delegation to private (i.e. non-government) entities. Carter v. Carter Coal Company generally is the case cited.

The Supreme Court most recently addressed this in Association of American Railroads v. Department of Transportation. To get around the private nondelegation doctrine, the Supreme Court held that "for purposes of determining the validity of the metrics and standards, Amtrak is a governmental entity."

As I repeatedly have emphasized on this thread, the Constitititon sometimes does not mean what its plain text says. Really, it's the Supreme Court that decides what the Constitution means.

what are you talking about. Carter v. Carter had nothing to do with the delegation clause, it had to do with the interstate commerce clause. As Association of American Railroads v. Department of Transportation. The petition for a writ of certiorari is denied
 

BrianLo

Well-Known Member
The numbers are meaningless to me. But if TWDC paid MORE TAXES under RCID than its obvious it was a HUGE MISTAKE to touch RCID.

That's why they didn't actually touch RCID in the end. They took it over. RCID is beneficial to the state for taxation. It's why their lawsuit actually begrudgingly acknowledges RCID was at one point beneficial. And why the lawsuit actually fails to bring up taxes. The comments from the governor et. al are unfortunately merely soundbite lies they peddled. Though in the past couple days they seem to have pivoted from the tax rhetoric.

Now Disney pays more taxes and has less control (or at least that's the stated goal by nullifying the development contract). Ironically, the person who now has a special district is technically the governor. The same one Disney had all along, with merely a new coat of paint.
 

Heath

Active Member
I'll take your comments in good faith. To just respond to a few:



True. There are different levels that have been applied to different types of speech in the course of American history by the courts. However, one type of speech that has consistently been upheld with the highest form of protection is specifically political speech - that is, speech for or against a bill, an opinion on a specific issue, or support for or against a candidate. The courts have always held this to the highest scrutiny because it was particiularly political speech that the founders were concerned about when they wrote the first amendment.

Disney's current situation is a direct result of political speech - they advocated against an issue that had been passed by the legislature, and commented that they would work to change that law, which is their right.

The issue now is that various forms of retaliation have been made against Disney:
  • First, they attempted to dissolve the district, which would have returned Disney to be under county jurisdiction.
  • Then they figured out that that wouldn't work, because there were too many financial problems associated with doing that.
  • So next they decided to create a state takeover of the district, keeping the same powers, but under the thumb of political appointees of Ron DeSantis, who have explicitly stated that they wanted to use the power of the board (i.e. the power of government) to get Disney to modify its content and produce movies/TV shows/rides that were acceptable to the governor.
  • When they realized that Disney had entered into a legal contract to lock in zoning for 30 years, and lock in other covenants on what could be built on their property until the death of the last surviving member of King Charles, the state and board decided to punish Disney - by adding new inspections that no other theme park has to have, voiding a legal contract (which is also unconstitutional), and institute regulations to make Disney's life difficult - just because they had an opinion that differed from the governors.
So yes, while speech has consequences, and not all speech is at the same level, political speech is most certainly protected. The only question for Disney is can they prove retaliation, and based on the comments made by the governor and numerous state legislators, Disney's case looks pretty good.



If not punishing free speech, what would you call it? Again, it's not just dissolving the district - it's putting a new oversight board that applies only to Disney, and using that board to place burdens on Disney that no one else has.



As I said before, and to expound on it, numerous entities within FL have self-governing special districts. The Villages (a private development) was mentioned before. Unviersal Studios has part of its properties in a special district, and they are in the process of expanding and adding a new special district so they can build more infrastructure. The Daytona Beach racecourse is within a special district. Special districts in FL are generally used as a way of providing economic or community development, allowing private organizations flexibility and a degree of control over the buildout of infrastructure and services. In exchange, the private companies/developers fund the projects through additional taxes to the district. It's not a special priviledge, but something readily available as part of Florida law for any developer who wants it and can present a good case for having one.
Thank you for the polite response.
The allegation of seemed legally flimsy to me due to that SB 4-C aims to dissolve all special districts in the state established before the ratification of the Florida state constitution in 1968, therefore Desantis would be punishing other districts due to Disney. Conceivably, other districts should also sue Desantis for dissolving their districts due to campaign retaliation, and for punishing Disney, and them too, for free speech. I did read Disney’s complaint, and understand the public statements made by Desantis and other officials that will be used against them. We all know what this is, I’m opining from a legal perspective. While I understand FL has over 1800 special districts, is there anything remotely close to the powers bestowed to Disney? While I understand your point that special districts aren’t privileges, but readily available tools under Florida law, many recent articles reference Disney’s half century of “special privileges,” because they have such supreme legal powers that dwarf other various types of districts. They are the Uber-District so to speak, because they have virtually every power any district could possibly have. That said, I think this is silly government overreach and grandstanding, and the only winners are lawyers and accountants. Desantis and Iger could be turning lemons into lemonade at a table together.
I typically post after reading the article, not browsing threads, and there are some regular ombudsmen that assume commenters read ALL previous threads, or should. I can’t follow threads easily as they jump around, so I might rehash something that’s already been explained or countered many times. So I do appreciate your time and taking my comments in good faith.
 
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ohioguy

Well-Known Member
How I wish it were possible for Disney just to pull out of the state and take up shop elsewhere. It would cripple Florida's economy and show the legislature who really calls the shots. Punishing a company for political purposes is a horrendous precedent and needs to be challenged, called-out, and end with a public flogging of the perpetrator.
 

Heath

Active Member
I know you are saying you understand the first amendment but in your Bruce Willis example if he was arrested or the police intervened to stop him that would be a first amendment violation. They could maybe remove him from the street for his own safety to prevent a more serious crime from occurring if his life was at risk but they cannot stop him from expressing his views. The consequences he would face is getting punched in the face (if he’s lucky that’s all) and that would be a separate crime (assault) but the guy who punched him would not be violating his first amendment right to free speech.

As far as Disney calling the action a punishment that’s exactly what it is. It’s not flimsy. The government taking away a benefit very much can be a punishment. If my kid says something I don’t like and I take his phone away it’s still a punishment even though his phone is a privilege and not a right. My son cannot sue me for violating his first amendment rights because I’m not the government. The first amendment protects free speech by preventing the Government from restricting speech directly or taking punitive action to chill speech. The Supreme Court has ruled that corporations have free speech rights too.

The court case revolves around Disney proving the action was done to punish them for Speaking out. Normally that can be difficult to prove in these cases. Fortunately for Disney the Governor took multiple victory laps bragging about taking down woke Disney to anyone who would listen and then doubled down by writing it in a book. It’s going to be hard to argue this wasn’t retaliation.
You are right, my Bruce Willis ex isn’t a good one, I was trying to say free speech is complex and can have consequences. I opined about the wording being “flimsy” due to FL case law referencing singling out individual entities for retaliation, when the bill dissolves other districts beside Disney. The complaint more relies on the public statements you reference. Although we all know what the fight it’s really about, I was just questioning from a legal perspective.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
The FL supreme court ruled otherwise in 1968.

And besides, if what you say is true, every development agreement in the state will be thrown out.
…this is what kills me…

So ONLY the big one with the most recognizable international brand name at the border is “the problem”???


…it’s almost like it has NOTHING to do with what goes on in the district at all?


Remember that kid who got attention for a week with some annoying, gimmicky joke or nagging pun in first grade?

All the rage on Wednesday…forgotten by Saturday

…hmmmm….what was the point?
Oh….STOP acting like there is any shred of credence to what’s going on. This is a clown show and the fact it’s a big, loudmouth state doing it means nothing. They’re still laughable hacks.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Disney did not do inspections; RCID did.
What inspections? You’ve said this several times but not answered what inspects are named in the land development agreement.

Zoning is a regulatory authority.
It’s a regulatory authority that can be exercised with broad discretion. There are places that don’t even have zoning. The zoning was created and is now locked in. It doesn’t get created afterwards.

Second, my interpretation of the RCID/WDW development agreement is that it vests Disney with dominate regulatory authority. Usually, there's some sort of reserve clause for the local government; "You do what you want but I reserve the right to check it, if I want to." In this particular agreement, Disney is superior, the district is subservient. You have Disney controlling the local government, which is just backwards.
What checks? Universal doesn’t go before the city or county for individual planning approval. Even at the Disneyland Resort, Disney doesn’t go for planning approval for everything. The deals are reviewed by their signed governments for compliance, which is not prohibited by Disney and the District’s agreement. The District can review compliance. The District can continue to evolve the land development regulations and if they find a genuine need for change can seek to make those modifications. The District though has not yet done that work that they can still do.

What's unusual about this particular development agreement is that the two parties are hostile to each other from the very day the agreement was signed.
That is not what happened and you know it.
 

orky8

Well-Known Member
How I wish it were possible for Disney just to pull out of the state and take up shop elsewhere. It would cripple Florida's economy and show the legislature who really calls the shots. Punishing a company for political purposes is a horrendous precedent and needs to be challenged, called-out, and end with a public flogging of the perpetrator.
But they can’t. So who really calls the shots?
 

Lilofan

Well-Known Member
How I wish it were possible for Disney just to pull out of the state and take up shop elsewhere. It would cripple Florida's economy and show the legislature who really calls the shots. Punishing a company for political purposes is a horrendous precedent and needs to be challenged, called-out, and end with a public flogging of the perpetrator.
WDW isn't going anywhere . There are things I wish for but one of them is not to cripple FL's economy. Some of the lowest paying industries , tourism and agriculture are the top two revenue producers for the Sunshine State.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
WDW isn't going anywhere . There are things I wish for but one of them is not to cripple FL's economy. Some of the lowest paying industries , tourism and agriculture are the top two revenue producers for the Sunshine State.
…then they should pay more and not spend their time bringing angry out of state people there that brag about how they don’t pay anything
 

JohnD

Well-Known Member
On third reading today for final passage in the House is SB 1604 which contains language voiding the Disney-RCID development agreement. Not on the calendar but could be taken up any time for final passage is HB 1305 which the Senate amended and passed 26-14 yesterday to include monorail inspections.

Here's the House Calendar for today. SB 1604 is on p. 9 of the attached. Will be a while before they get to it.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
You are missing the point. In 1967, why not simply grant Disney (the company) the powers directly.

The State of Florida was extremely excited to have Disney coming to the state and wanted to grant Disney government powers. However, because they could not legally grant these powers directly to Disney (the company) due to the private nondelegation doctrine, the state had to first create a local government for Disney. The State of Florida could then grant RCID government powers.
Without the municipal government they couldn’t finance with municipal bonds. It was never about the government having control. Disney always had control.
 

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
You are missing the point. In 1967, why not simply grant Disney (the company) the powers directly.

The State of Florida was extremely excited to have Disney coming to the state and wanted to grant Disney government powers. However, because they could not legally grant these powers directly to Disney (the company) due to the private nondelegation doctrine, the state had to first create a local government for Disney. The State of Florida could then grant RCID government powers.

I think you're barking up the wrong tree on this one. The development agreement doesn't give Disney powers. It just formalizes the comprehensive plan, which basically means it sets zoning for a certain period. The comprehensive plan was ratified by the board and approved by the state. It has provisions for amendment and modifications, and a regular review period as defined by law.
 

Sirwalterraleigh

Premium Member
On third reading today for final passage in the House is SB 1604 which contains language voiding the Disney-RCID development agreement. Not on the calendar but could be taken up any time for final passage is HB 1305 which the Senate amended and passed 26-14 yesterday to include monorail inspections.

Here's the House Calendar for today. SB 1604 is on p. 9 of the attached. Will be a while before they get to it.
They should close that circus just like ringling brothers
 

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