News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Fordlover]

I get that, but I don’t understand how someone can simultaneously criticise Disney for speaking out and acknowledge that DeSantis’s reaction is unacceptable. Those seem like mutually exclusive positions to me.

Really? Mutually exclusive? Seems like a partisan take.
I believe Disney and the board should be focused on their fiduciary duty to the shareholders, and I don't believe that weighing in on political matters falls within that duty. Especially when it could be perceived to alienate parents of young children, their target audience for the parks, thus negatively hitting the bottom line.
I believe retaliatory behavior from those in government is inappropriate.

 

[RamblinWreck]

And should not have been punished by the actions of the state. It's immaterial what the rationale was. It's unconstitutional, simple.

I’m 100% in agreement

Just commenting on that side discussion about whether or not it was for show.

 

[LAKid53]

But if we all agree on that point, what exactly are people criticising Disney for?

Bingo

 

[LittleBuford]

They're not mutually exclusive because one can disagree with government retaliation while also holding the position that Disney made a PR misstep.

But whether something is a PR mistake or not has zero bearing on the issue of government retaliation. Those who link the two are implicitly endorsing DeSantis’s claim that Disney played a role in creating this mess. It did not.

Victim blaming is free speech.

No-one is trying to silence you. Disagreement is not an assault on your free speech.

 

[Brian]

You're right. Notice that the government isn't taking action against you for it, rather private individuals with no state powers are just criticizing you.

That's free speech.

You can say something and I - a private citizen - can call you out on it. That is free speech.

But when you say it, and then you are arrested or other legal action is taken against you by those in power, that is NOT free speech.

I'm glad you understand the difference.

Well done!

This is exactly what I was talking about. You're either assuming that I don't think that DeSantis was wrong to retaliate against Disney for exercising their free speech rights, or worse, making that statement in bad faith because you dislike my opinion.

I shouldn't have to update my signature to include a disclaimer saying "If this post is in the RCID thread, please note that DeSantis was wrong to retaliate against Disney and nothing in the post above should be construed to mean anything to the contrary." As @Dan Deesnee wisely pointed out, social issues are quite nuanced.

 

[Disstevefan1]

WDW paid $1.1 Billion in local and state taxes in 2022.

On top of that, they then paid hundreds of millions to RCID for the infrastructure on their property which they own with almost no help from the county and state to whom they paid $1.1 Billion in local and state taxes in 2022.

Is that how you define "sweet deal"?

It's interesting, would TWDC paid more taxes with RCID or less taxes with RCID?

Its sure sounding like the answer will depend on what side of the fight you are on.

Whatever is the truth, I would have let RCID be (it was my opinion from the start to let it be) like it was for the last 50 something years, letting them have (whatever advantages) they would get out of it.

 

[mkt]

It's interesting, would TWDC paid more taxes with RCID or less taxes with RCID?

Its sure sounding like the answer will depend on what side of the fight you are on.

Whatever is the truth, I would have let RCID be (it was my opinion from the start to let it be) like it was for the last 50 something years, letting them have (whatever advantages) they would get out of it.

There's no "my truth or your truth", there's just the truth: Disney would have paid less without RCID, but then all of Orange and Osceola County's taxpayers would have paid more as a result.

It really is that simple.

 

[LAKid53]

Yes for sure. One of the arguments the state may try to make is the legislature passed the bill and not DeSantis. Technically true but where that argument gets flimsy is that he asked for and got a special session called to approve the original bill. It can’t be legislative business as usual and a special session. If the state uses this argument they may say that the Governor’s speech and will is not in question but the legislature still acted in good faith. You don’t have each member who voted yes for the bill writing a book and bragging about it. If there is evidence of the Governor’s team calling or texting or e-mailing members of the legislature and discussion of the real motive for the bill that’s good evidence to introduce. We know from reporting the Governor doesn’t take calls from anyone (even big donors) so it’s likely the communication would be between a staffer and the members of the legislature. That could come out from discovery.

And those staffers, who have NO career service protections and serve at the pleasure of the governor, would have been FIRED if those communications differed from the governor's position.

 

[LAKid53]

Thanks for posting this!

Ditto. Evening read.

 

[mikejs78]

They should have handled their people better internally, telling them they are working behind the scenes to change the law.

This comes across as victim blaming, which is why you’re continually met with what you characterise as a bad-faith retort.

I get that, but I don’t understand how someone can simultaneously criticise Disney for speaking out and acknowledge that DeSantis’s reaction is unacceptable. Those seem like mutually exclusive positions to me.

I'm going to defend @Brian - I don't think they are mutually opposing positions. If someone doesn't agree with what Disney said, they can simultaneously disagree with the speech/make personal choices based on that speech, and recognize that the government has no role in punishing the speech they disagree with.

To quote Evelyn Beatrice Hall (and often misattributed to Voltaire), "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

I believe Disney and the board should be focused on their fiduciary duty to the shareholders, and I don't believe that weighing in on political matters falls within that duty.

Universal, Apple, Starbucks, Hilton, Hyatt, and over 100+ businesses all weighed in on this “political matter.”

 

[Disstevefan1]

Here's the screenshot I posted yesterday of Disney's property tax bill for 2022 JUST for the Magic Kingdom. Not the parking lot, not the TTC - JUST the park.

The relevant parts: They pay to Orange County, Orange County Schools, plus to RCID and RCID's debt service separately.

View attachment 714142


Anyway, RCID's bonds helped Disney acquire financing at below market rates - that's it. Which realistically they could do without, since Disney wouldn't have issue getting loans if needed from private lenders.

The numbers are meaningless to me. But if TWDC paid MORE TAXES under RCID than its obvious it was a HUGE MISTAKE to touch RCID.

 

[mkt]

Another random one - The Cast Services Building for the All Star Resorts pay $65k. So something guests don't even see or that generate any revenue for TWDC still pay.

 

[RamblinWreck]

I get that, but I don’t understand how someone can simultaneously criticise Disney for speaking out and acknowledge that DeSantis’s reaction is unacceptable. Those seem like mutually exclusive positions to me.

I’m not in that camp but it doesn’t seem difficult to grasp.

You can disagree with someone without thinking they deserve to be persecuted by the government.

 

[Figgy1]

Of course. Heck, I did one better: I left Disney after several decades of service and a cushy, well-paying job in middle management primarily because I was unhappy with their politics (along with a couple other secondary reasons).


They're not mutually exclusive because one can disagree with government retaliation while also holding the position that Disney made a PR misstep.


Victim blaming is free speech.

Your right to do so
One is much different than the other
As is your right to do so, it doesn't mean others can't disagree with your position

 

[lazyboy97o]

The numbers are meaningless to me. But if TWDC paid MORE TAXES under RCID than its obvious it was a HUGE MISTAKE to touch RCID.

You might as well say the truth is meaningless to you. Which seems to be the case. You’ve been provided this information multiple times.

 

[mkt]

The numbers are meaningless to me. But if TWDC paid MORE TAXES under RCID than its obvious it was a HUGE MISTAKE to touch RCID.

Just look at the bottom where it shows Orange County AND Reedy Creek as recipients of tax revenue of TWDC.

 

[LAKid53]

That is interesting if true. (no saying its not, I just don't know). Disney paid MORE taxes with RCID. Interesting.

Because of the assessment from RCID, TWDC paid more in LOCAL taxes than it would if the only local tax to be paid was property taxes levied by Orange and Osceola Counties. I've looked at some of the property tax bills from Orange County.

What about the RCID bonds? that didn't help TWDC?

And residents of both Orange and Osceola counties as WE didn't have to pay for the infrastructure work...or the bonds...the revenue from the sale of the bonds was used for.

Is his staff stupid too?

Some. But more will follow the orders of the guy who can fire them on the spot.

 

[Figgy1]

The entry road to Typhoon Lagoon - a strip of pavement - pays $200k

View attachment 714145

Another random one - The Cast Services Building for the All Star Resorts pay $65k. So something guests don't even see or that generate any revenue for TWDC still pay.

View attachment 714146

I think I've gained 20 pounds just looking at all those sweet deals

 

[mkt]

I think I've gained 20 pounds just looking at all those sweet deals