News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

peter11435

Well-Known Member
EXACTLY! I understand it perfectly well. I'm not describing it differently than you are, I'm saying I understand what it is, exactly as you're describing it, and I don't like it.

"Turning it over" to a board controlled by themselves to be used exactly and only how they want, while getting it off of their balance sheet and eligible for municipal debt is exactly what I don't like.
They aren’t turning over undeveloped land to get it off their balance sheet. They are turning over land they own so that it can be developed into roads, bridges, fire stations, power plants, etc… using tax money they pay. Why shouldn’t they get to dictate how their tax dollars are spent developing their land?
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
Sure if you consider the 6 largest county in the state by populations over 350,000 residents all to be nobody
I'd argue that since it was an over 100% increase in population from the previous decade (340k btw, not 350k), the local government apparatus still hadn't caught up to Disney's needs, since they were catching up to their own population boom.
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
How do you feel about the fact that the new board has the power to set local tax rates and spending levels and neither the landowners nor the residents have any vote on said representatives?

One of the founding principles of this country was the idea that taxation required representation. Now, I am not opposed to dissolving Reedy Creek, but having a state-appointed board setting local tax rates and spending levels is fundamentally immoral and un-American, in my opinion.
The new board is not just a clown show, they're the entire circus.

They replaced a corporate puppet board with a board that's openly antagonistic to the corporation, and that's not better. It was a huge misstep.
 

Chi84

Premium Member
You are kidding right? When a housing development is built and the county takes over maintenance of the new roads this is exactly what happens.….all the time. This is no different. Of all the things to find an issue with it’s really bizarre to have a problem with turning over land for roads or municipal services. That’s the whole point of the special district. Literally why they exist.
This is exactly why I keep pointing to earlier discussions and source material explaining special districts.
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
The development agreement locks in the comprehensive plan. The issue is that Disney is committed to doing something the state reviewed without objection. Now suddenly they need to change the comprehensive plan for unspecified reasons to serve some other unspecified uses.
But they’re different types of documents, each requiring different mechanisms for public hearings and required notices.

Are you suggesting the January/Feb ‘23 development agreement wasn’t required to comply with public notice requirements (newspaper notices, mailings to land owners) because it “locks in” an earlier plan?
 

CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
They aren’t turning over undeveloped land to get it off their balance sheet. They are turning over land they own so that it can be developed into roads, bridges, fire stations, power plants, etc… using tax money they pay. Why shouldn’t they get to dictate how their tax dollars are spent developing their land?
Because the infrastructure that's being developed is for the operation of their business, it's not for public use. World Drive isn't fundamentally any different than the walking paths in Adventureland.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
As the sole land owner and resident it would be my taxes and my taxes alone that would fund road maintenance.

Who do you think was maintaining roads in the RCID?

Except many of those roads are public, not private. So, as a taxpayer in Orange County, I appreciate TWDC paying an assessment to RCID to maintain roads my taxes would normally pay for.
 

CentralFLlife

Well-Known Member
I'm sure Volusia County would welcome a voluntary contribution to their general fund from Comcast. But no I don't think it would be appropriate for Volusia County to cede municipal authority to a board appointed by Comcast in perpetuity that would control the rail line.

But ideally SunRail wouldn't be publicly funded in the first place so there's be no risk to Volusia or any other county teachers.
Wait, you’re saying public transport shouldn’t be publicly funded?
 
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CaptainAmerica

Premium Member
The state Division of Bond Finance issues and reviews government bonds on behalf of state agencies and local governments. It would have reviewed every single supplement to the 1972 Ad Valorem Tax Bond Resolution. Furthermore, the Division collects, maintains, and disseminates information on tax-exempt bonds issued by units of local government.

If the Division deemed the RCID bonds were inappropriate, it would have challenged the original bonds and every single supplement.
Again, I'm not saying the arrangement was illegal. I'm saying I don't like it.
 

Figgy1

Well-Known Member
Because the infrastructure that's being developed is for the operation of their business, it's not for public use. World Drive isn't fundamentally any different than the walking paths in Adventureland.
That's not true. Several times when staying off site it was easier to use RCID roads to get elsewhere in the area to avoid traffic. The roads are open to the public not just those visiting Disney
 
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Vacationeer

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
EXACTLY! I understand it perfectly well. I'm not describing it differently than you are, I'm saying I understand what it is, exactly as you're describing it, and I don't like it.

"Turning it over" to a board controlled by themselves to be used exactly and only how they want, while getting it off of their balance sheet and eligible for municipal debt is exactly what I don't like.
I get what you’re saying and wouldn’t necessarily like that either. But I haven’t really seen anything proving Disney’s interest with RCID was for anything but control, not financial motives. WDW wanted to maintain their standards and for that they were willing to pay a premium. Yes maybe it helped expedite and keep things more efficient in the long game, but where were they not paying their share or trying to load it off on someone else? Municipal bonds, yes. For municipal things, infrastructure. I don’t see shirking financial responsibility in any of this.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
As has been pointed out repeatedly, Disney pays more in taxes than Universal and Sea World. Try again.
I didn't say Disney paid any more or less in taxes, the analogy was asking if you would like it if your neighbor got a special break on taxes for life... in this instance what Disney got may not have amount to anything in lower taxes but it did provide them at the very least with a special pass on normal permits and other things that would take any other competitor much longer because they weren't going to be dealing with a oversight board that was really run by themselves.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Disney pays higher taxes than universal or sea world precisely because of RCID.
Yet again, I never said Disney paid less in taxes they simply get special red carpet treatment from their own corporate run government oversight board. I used taxes as an example that the poster might understand as most people are familiar with paying taxes but few have to ever deal with a local government when seeking permits and such.
 

LAKid53

Official Member of the Girly Girl Fan Club
Premium Member
But Disney didn't buy up all of the land. Their quasi government owns some of the land and won't let anybody else buy it.

The state routinely purchases private lands to set aside for conservation. That's one of the functions of the Division of State Lands within DEP, to recommend the purchase of land for various purposes. The governor and cabinet approved the acquisition of 3500 acres back in January.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
I didn't say Disney paid any more or less in taxes, the analogy was asking if you would like it if your neighbor got a special break on taxes for life... in this instance what Disney got may not have amount to anything in lower taxes but it did provide them at the very least with a special pass on normal permits and other things that would take any other competitor much longer because they weren't going to be dealing with a oversight board that was really run by themselves.
You’ve just used another bad example. There is no special pass on normal permits, whatever those are. It’s the same type of process and is often considered the most onerous of the local area.

And again, the district was enforcing a building code before local governments were required to do so.
 

thomas998

Well-Known Member
Other than expedited permitting, what advantage does Disney have over Uni & SeaWorld? It is PAYING RCID for the services the District provides in the form of an assessment, i.e., tax. That's on top of what it pays Orange and Osceola Counties in property taxes. It is also paying OCSO to provide LE support. So whatever "advantage" you think TWDC is getting, it certainly isn't financial.
For a corporation time is very valuable. Having worked in a corporation that had to deal with multiple government entities for permits on pipelines we built, I can assure you that having a special entity that fast tracks every permit you need is very valuable. I've watch large construction teams sit around for weeks at a time simply because an inspector didn't show up to sign on what had been done.

And if you don't think time is money you don't understand how corporation determine the return on their investments. Disney has gained millions by having expedited services. If Disney didn't put a significant value on the way things were they wouldn't have put up such a fight to stop the state from taking it over.
 

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