News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

Brian

Well-Known Member
But then you’re saying only the victims of a law should be able to speak out about it? Many times victims, by their very position, need the help of stronger allies.

Think about what that would mean. If a certain religion was being targeted, no one else has any business standing up and speaking for them?

The first amendment gives each one of us the right to decide for ourselves which laws to oppose. We don’t have to stand by and watch while others are being treated unfairly.
To answer your question: not at all, anyone is welcome to speak out against what they view as unjust, but the person or entity rendering aid doesn't get to claim they too were victimized, or to use my previous example, "punched at" by it.

If a group of Christians started speaking out against the plight of Uyghur Muslims in China, unless/until China or another entity strikes back at those Christians for speaking out, the only ones who can reasonably say they are victimized in that situation are the Uyghurs themselves.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
We don’t have to stand by and watch while others are being treated unfairly.
I think one of the reasons you can’t convince him (despite the cogency of your argument) is that @Brian doesn’t think Disney is being treated unfairly, even if he acknowledges that the situation has got out of hand. A few weeks ago, I posted that some here seemed to be pleased that Disney was being (from their perspective) cut down to size, and he identified himself as feeling this way. It may be impossible to change his mind given where he personally stands on the matter.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
To answer your question: not at all, anyone is welcome to speak out against what they view as unjust, but the person or entity rendering aid doesn't get to claim they too were victimized, or to use my previous example, "punched at" by it.

If a group of Christians started speaking out against the plight of Uyghur Muslims in China, unless/until China or another entity strikes back at those Christians for speaking out, the only ones who can reasonably say they are victimized in that situation are the Uyghurs themselves.
The analogy is irrelevant, because Disney never claimed to be victimised.
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
I think one of the reasons you can’t convince him (despite the cogency of your argument) is that @Brian doesn’t think Disney is being treated unfairly, even if he acknowledges that the situation has got out of hand. A few weeks ago, I posted that some here seemed to be pleased that Disney was being (from their perspective) cut down to size, and he identified himself as feeling this way. It may be impossible to change his mind given where he personally stands on the matter.
I did indeed take pleasure in the notion of Disney being "cut down to size," since I abhor corporate activism, and trend ideologically conservative, but disagree with the means and circumstances under which the cutting down occurred, and am troubled by the legal, constitutional and ethical lines it crossed. It's a bit of a quandary for me, to be honest.
 

LittleBuford

Well-Known Member
I did indeed take pleasure in the notion of Disney being "cut down to size," since I abhor corporate activism, and trend ideologically conservative, but disagree with the means and circumstances by which the cutting down occurred, and am troubled by the legal, constitutional and ethical lines it crossed. It's a bit of a quandary for me, to be honest.
Your ambivalence is apparent from your posts, though I have to say that your latest comments seem somewhat to undermine the bolded.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I did indeed take pleasure in the notion of Disney being "cut down to size," since I abhor corporate activism, and trend ideologically conservative, but disagree with the means and circumstances by which the cutting down occurred, and am troubled by the legal, constitutional and ethical lines it crossed. It's a bit of a quandary for me, to be honest.

So you abhor my employer sponsoring the Special Olympics?
Or donating to shelters?
Or sponsoring education in 3rd world countries?
Or donating to schools?
Or sit on committees when invited by the White House?

They should... just stick solely to their core of running the products and services business they operate... and hide their head in the sand when it comes to anything about the world in which they operate?
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
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Brian

Well-Known Member
They should... just stick solely to their core of running the products and services business they operate... and hide their head in the sand when it comes to anything about the world in which they operate?
Yes.

Call me callous, but I do think companies should simply stick to their business and focus entirely on generating value for their shareholders.

Will they listen to me?

Donald Duck Dcl GIF by Amo Cruzeiro Disney
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
We have another response:




Taxing the very tourists the state is attracting and depends on. Pure Genuis! Like someone is going to blame Disney for a hotel tax and stay away from Disney as a company because of it...

DeSantis is acting like a spoiled trust fund kid now... I'll show them!!!
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
You literally want the 20+ BILLION a year in charitable giving by Corporations in the US to go away? I think you need to step back from your pain point and look at the bigger picture.
I understand it's a somewhat radical position, especially in recent years. I've thought a lot about it, though. Happy to take it into the PMs to avoid derailing the thread any further.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
Let's see, anywhere from 60-80k CMs in Florida, plus all the locals that don't work there but do use WDW roads at least somewhat regularly because they live in the surrounding area, and he thinks slapping tolls on them is a recipe for success? I'm starting to think I could get him to buy ocean-front property in Nebraska at a highly inflated price if he were properly agitated.
 

maxairmike

Well-Known Member
I just wonder if he'd include those CFTOD toll roads in the toll relief program. If I were a betting man...

I don't think doing that would save him from the resulting blowback, unless those were a separate tier refunded at 100% with a much lower trip threshold (part timers could make as few as 2-6 trips/week, so 8-24/month if they don't go on property otherwise, plus they still are forced to now buy into SunPass/E-Pass). Of course you also have to assume he'll act at least somewhat rationally, and at this point...all bets on that are off. I think he's close to the level of irrationality that he would pull a Daffy Duck and if Iger/Disney were to suddenly say "Okay, you win and get everything you want" he would say "Duck season."
 

Brian

Well-Known Member
We have another response:


Edit: tagging in @lazyboy97o to get their take on it.

Picture this if you will: The year is 2025. The date: January 20th. President DeSantis has just wrapped up his first inaugural address, and steps inside a room off the capitol rotunda to sign his first executive orders as POTUS, first among them banning the sale of Walt Disney World tickets on U.S. military bases.

But seriously though, will he ever drop it and shift his focus to the more pressing issues?
 

Stripes

Premium Member
Taxing the very tourists the state is attracting and depends on. Pure Genuis! Like someone is going to blame Disney for a hotel tax and stay away from Disney as a company because of it...

DeSantis is acting like a spoiled trust fund kid now... I'll show them!!!
The only legitimate threat is putting tolls on the roads. That would require new legislation which thus far the Florida Senate doesn’t appear eager to oblige. Disney could, in theory, reimburse guests and cast members since, theoretically, the cost of the roads would be covered by tolls rather than taxes on Disney. The net effect may even benefit Disney.

And then there’s the fact that people don’t take kindly to tolls. Does DeSantis really think taxing the public instead of Disney to pay for Disney’s roads is politically smart? I’m sure he’ll win over a ton of voters with that one LOL!

The legislature cannot repeal the agreements under the Florida Constitution and the U.S. Constitution. We already know the agreement didn’t violate Florida’s growth laws because the comprehensive plan was approved by the state and the agreements merely solidify the comprehensive plan. Florida could change their growth laws but I don’t see that working very well for them. Either it will violate the contracts clause or create significant collateral damage for countless Floridian communities. They can’t target Reedy Creek or “theme parks” without raising serious red flags in court. Reedy Creek doesn’t own very much land in the district other than roads and municipal facilities, but even then there’s the restrictive covenants and any violation of those would prompt a lawsuit from Disney and almost certainly an immediate injunction. And hotel taxes? LOL it’s not like the legislature can raise taxes on only Disney’s hotels. But I’m sure the legislature would be more than happy to sink Florida’s largest industry because poor little Ronnie got upset.

DeSantis is throwing a tantrum in full public view. And I thought things couldn‘t get more embarrassing for him.

If there was any doubt that Disney is headed to court, this puts that to rest. Grab your popcorn cause this one is gonna be good!
 
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Stripes

Premium Member
The comments were filmed.

He starts by saying ”Disney is a joke.” I presume he hasn’t met their lawyers yet.

DeSantis says legislature will repeal agreements (Hello Article 1, Clause 10, Section 1) and go further including looking at taxes on the hotels, tolls on the roads, and developing property that the district owns. 😂🤡

He also mentions being reelected after this issue began and therefore the voters approved of this action. However, the RCID change in governance bill was not being discussed at that time only the dissolution bill which are fundamentally different not that it matters whatsoever. This is a republic, Ronald. The majority doesn’t get to do whatever it wants, although it can certainly try.

He is giving Disney so much ammo for a First Amendment lawsuit as well!

Disney comments at 1:16:30.

 
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castlecake2.0

Well-Known Member
Original Poster

castlecake2.0

Well-Known Member
Original Poster
The only legitimate threat is putting tolls on the roads. That would require new legislation which thus far the Florida Senate doesn’t appear eager to oblige. Disney could, in theory, reimburse guests and cast members since, theoretically, the cost of the roads would be covered by tolls rather than taxes on Disney. The net effect may even benefit Disney.

And then there’s the fact that people don’t take kindly to tolls. Does DeSantis really think taxing the public instead of Disney to pay for Disney’s roads is politically smart? I’m sure he’ll win over a ton of voters with that one LOL!

The legislature cannot repeal the agreements under the Florida Constitution and the U.S. Constitution. We already know the agreement didn’t violate Florida’s growth laws because the comprehensive plan was approved by the state and the agreements merely solidify the comprehensive plan. Florida could change their growth laws but I don’t see that working very well for them. Either it will violate the contracts clause or create significant collateral damage for countless Floridian communities. They can’t target Reedy Creek or “theme parks” without raising serious red flags in court. Reedy Creek doesn’t own very much land in the district other than roads and municipal facilities, but even then there’s the restrictive covenants and any violation of those would prompt a lawsuit from Disney and almost certainly an immediate injunction. And hotel taxes? LOL it’s not like the legislature can raise taxes on only Disney’s hotels. But I’m sure the legislature would be more than happy to sink Florida’s largest industry because poor little Ronnie got upset.

DeSantis is throwing a tantrum in full public view. And I thought things couldn‘t get more embarrassing for him.

If there was any doubt that Disney is headed to court, this puts that to rest. Grab your popcorn cause this one is gonna be good!
If he puts toll roads surrounding WDW
I’d be sure to leave a nice brochure in every single hotel room on property explaining where the Ronnie Road Tax came from. How long does this have to drag out before his term is up?
 

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