News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

DisneyCane

Well-Known Member
People need to pay closer attention to what DeSantis is actually saying about this, because he's being particularly slimy when it comes to Disney and taxes.

DeSantis has issued statements such as this:

Disney is going to pay its fair share of taxes and Disney is going to honor the debt.​

And this:

ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.​

Note that there is no claim that Disney has not already been paying their "fair share of taxes", only that DeSantis is going to make sure that Disney does so going forward. DeSantis is using words to complain about a problem that does not exist.

DeSantis is playing with words to mislead the uninformed into thinking that Disney is not already paying their fair share of taxes in central Florida.
The statements are about what is going to happen vs. the possibility of having the debts of RCID (which benefitted only Disney) being dumped on other entities which could have happened if the district was just dissolved.

What constitutes Disney's "fair share" of taxes is subjective just like when politicians rant about making billionaires pay their fair share. What's "fair" means something different to different people.
 

mmascari

Well-Known Member
All the more reason that this idea that it’s best to wait to challenge anything doesn’t actually add up. So a fight later is effectively double the cost. The only way it’s cheaper and easier to wait is to decide now to just accept decisions without pushing back.
It feels like there are one of two (three?) things going on. Especially since we can assume at a generic very stereotypical level Disney would prefer some amount of Republican government, at least in the past if not now or not this specific.

Either some profound delayed response that Disney is being very quiet about. They're not fighting back until they are. This could be after the board is signed in to fight the specific change then, as it's not real until there is actually a new board. It could just be all political, to fight Ron and they're timing it based on the presidential run for maximum impact. No need to bring the full media might out against Ron today if it could fail and be yesterday's news cycle, timing it for maximum impact. If any of these are the plan, we're not going to know until it happens. Just like Bob C was in charge and had full support right up until he didn't.

Alternatively, they're just accepting that Ron is in charge now. This one feels like a huge management screw up. I don't see any scenario where Ron being in charge generates more money than the prior structure. It's like a sword of Damocles hanging over every decision the company makes. No good can come from that path and it is not sustainable.

Possible third option, they're betting that the second scenario only lasts a year and then blows over on its own. That's quite an all in gamble the company move to make then.

I could probably click on any thread on the forum and find posts saying Disney is making management mistakes, so it's not like that is a new concept here.
 

mkt

When a paradise is lost go straight to Disney™
Premium Member
However, the implication from these DeSantis statements, which some journalists are incorrectly reporting, is that Disney was not paying their fair share of taxes before.

Disney is paying plenty of taxes in central Florida. But you would not know this from DeSantis or some reporters.
They're the state's largest single taxpayer and second largest employer.

But DeSantis's supporters aren't interested in the truth. They're interested in "owning the libs".
 

Tha Realest

Well-Known Member
However, the implication from these DeSantis statements, which some journalists are incorrectly reporting, is that Disney was not paying their fair share of taxes before.

Disney is paying plenty of taxes in central Florida. But you would not know this from DeSantis or some reporters.
There’s been some suggestion on here Disney winded up paying more in taxes by virtue of its RCID issues, which leads back to the “harm” issue in terms of standing for a shareholder (if Disney being decoupled from RCID actually means they spend less money)
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
It feels like there are one of two (three?) things going on. Especially since we can assume at a generic very stereotypical level Disney would prefer some amount of Republican government, at least in the past if not now or not this specific.

Either some profound delayed response that Disney is being very quiet about. They're not fighting back until they are. This could be after the board is signed in to fight the specific change then, as it's not real until there is actually a new board. It could just be all political, to fight Ron and they're timing it based on the presidential run for maximum impact. No need to bring the full media might out against Ron today if it could fail and be yesterday's news cycle, timing it for maximum impact. If any of these are the plan, we're not going to know until it happens. Just like Bob C was in charge and had full support right up until he didn't.

Alternatively, they're just accepting that Ron is in charge now. This one feels like a huge management screw up. I don't see any scenario where Ron being in charge generates more money than the prior structure. It's like a sword of Damocles hanging over every decision the company makes. No good can come from that path and it is not sustainable.

Possible third option, they're betting that the second scenario only lasts a year and then blows over on its own. That's quite an all in gamble the company move to make then.

I could probably click on any thread on the forum and find posts saying Disney is making management mistakes, so it's not like that is a new concept here.
It’s the fallacy of appeasement. People accept the false grievances at face value and therefore wrongly assume if they just handle this it’ll all be over and go away. It’s this problem where as a general rule we’re a bit too trusting and assume others might as we would act. If we had an issue and it was addressed, that would be the end of it. Most of us don’t go around making things up to get concessions from others so we just don’t make the connection.
 

hopemax

Well-Known Member
Generally speaking, I agree with you. There has been much debate, however, about whether corporations possess the same free speech rights that individuals do. Many on the left -- the same people who are now screaming that Disney's free speech rights have been violated -- have argued that the Citizens United decision was one of the greatest threats to our democracy to come down the pike. So it seems a tad inconsistent to me.
Just because people disagree with what the law of the land should be doesn't mean they aren't obligated to follow it or expect others to follow it, especially once ruled upon by the Supreme Court. If the law of the land is that corporations have free speech rights, then people of both left and right persuasions are obligated to follow the law equally, and should expect the law of the land to be applied equally. The left "lost" that particular battle, it's not inconsistent that they should proceed to acceptance of the outcome, the expectation that it be followed and there should be consequences if violated.

Or are you suggesting that a losing side can take no interest in the law of the land actually being followed or violated? Only the winners get to make sure laws of the land are followed? Some entities, especially individuals, do engage in acts of civil disobedience, but it's not a requirement.
 

Wendy Pleakley

Well-Known Member
Again, we have to stop thinking about this issue in isolation. If it were some one off sideshow then maybe we could keep believing “Maybe they’re just lying.” But it’s not. It’s the centerpiece of a larger, multifaceted push that includes not just this but an assortment of other policies and legislation.

And why would they not at least try to stop projects or interfere is some other way? What do they lose if they at least give it a go?


And that’s all well and good, and he is free to say that work toward that goal as a person. He is absolutely not allowed to use the power of the state to try and force such change.

“Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience.”
-C. S. Lewis
Of course, but concerns about the bigger picture aren’t allowed here because it’s political.

Which is certainly the prerogative of this site, however it reminds me of the situation Disney found themselves in from the start.

How does one justify being silent in a clear cut case of right and wrong…
 

drnilescrane

Well-Known Member
How does one justify being silent in a clear cut case of right and wrong…
Because when the business as a whole is experiencing secular changes maybe the small amount of brand and political capital you have available to you is better used elsewhere.

Especially when dealing with a small minded despot who has nothing better to do than punch back.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
People need to pay closer attention to what DeSantis is actually saying about this, because he's being particularly slimy when it comes to Disney and taxes.

DeSantis has issued statements such as this:

Disney is going to pay its fair share of taxes and Disney is going to honor the debt.​

And this:

ensures that Disney pays its debts and fair share of taxes.​

Note that there is no claim that Disney has not already been paying their "fair share of taxes", only that DeSantis is going to make sure that Disney does so going forward. DeSantis is using words to complain about a problem that does not exist.

DeSantis is playing with words to mislead the uninformed into thinking that Disney is not already paying their fair share of taxes in central Florida.
And keep In mind his comment about paying their fair share of taxes was in reference to the original plan where the district was to be dissolved. The average person reading that assumes that Disney when it had RCID did not pay its fair share of taxes but Ron is fixing that now. It was lie when he said it and it came back to bite him when he changed the plan and didn’t dissolve the district. So now anyone who believed the original statement (so believed that with a special tax district Disney got a tax break) thinks he caved and let Disney keep their special district with a big tax break. People in his own party, including a special neighbor he is soon to be at odds with, are sure to point that out to anyone who will listen.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
The Jedi are to woke. ;)
Jar jar was definitely woke…..cancel him first :cool:

9AC0487F-90B3-4C3D-9E91-F95AA0311ADE.jpeg
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
Politicians are allowed to lie for “campaign speech”. They do it all the time.

Many on this board, especially those who despise DeSantis, say he’s doing this to raise funds for his presidential run.

All DeSantis’ attorneys have to say in front of a judge is, “All those public statements were to gain favor with the Republican electorate. Really, the Governor is genuinely worried that RCID gave Disney an unfair advantage over its competition in central Florida.”

Until the first evidence that there was any private negotiating happening and the same demands come up... then it's clear that it's not just show, but part of the program.
 

flynnibus

Premium Member

What kinds of decisions will DeSantis’ cronies possibly make regarding Disney?
“I’m concerned that we’re solving a problem that isn’t serious, or doesn’t really exist," Lepinski said.

Hrmm.. anyone heard that one before? :)
 

flynnibus

Premium Member
I don't get to vote for the Building Official in charge of the building department where I live but said official has power over permitting for my home. I can't sue over it because nobody gets to vote for who fills that position.
You are glossing over key distinctions - It's not a requirement that any gov agency with authority over you be elected... but for certain types, there is, including those with taxing authority.
 

GoofGoof

Premium Member
You are glossing over key distinctions - It's not a requirement that any gov agency with authority over you be elected... but for certain types, there is, including those with taxing authority.
When we talked about this a gazillion pages back someone posted a link to a database of FL special districts where you could filter on different criteria. When we filtered on government appointed board and authority to assess tax there were very few examples. Of the ones that did exist they all had government appointed boards that required the board members to be landowners of the district. Simple concept of no taxation without representation. These were non profits like regional medical centers and appeared to be structured that way to avoid the cost and hassle of running an election for the seats. We found no example of a special district with a board appointed by the Government that had taxing authority and allowed board members from outside the district. This one would be a first.
 

BuzzedPotatoHead89

Well-Known Member
Just a few court cases easily becomes more expensive over doing it now and avoiding the whole thing. The fallacy of appeasement is that it makes things easier in the long run when it’s always cheaper and easier to act sooner than later.
I don’t necessarily disagree, as I said several pages back in a likely deleted post relenting that this is likely a strategic mistake.

But I do think the Disney BoD/shareholders, senior leadership team, and TDO are likely to go in and presume that they are dealing with rational actors on the new RCID that they can either peel off or presumably work with. I just feel Corporate America is so conflict averse these days from a legal and enterprise risk management perspective, so this is predictable if not unfortunate.

If they bring suit I would assume they would want to make sure they have an iron clad case with damages to prove. One would hope though that they are navigating and organizing to apply pressure behind the scenes to assume they have a functional governing majority on the board.
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
My point is you never know what you’ll get with judges, all it takes is one judge that has a different interpretation of the law and you lose. There’s been numerous “slam dunk” cases that were lost. Freedom of religion shall not be infringed… but often is and legally can be in certain situations according to the courts, second amendment rights shall not be infringed… but often are and legally can be according to the courts.

Often cases go one way, then change on appeal to a higher court, then change again on appeal to a higher court, and then change again at the highest court. Same facts, same laws, just different interpretations of the law.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

mmascari

Well-Known Member
Lets say you are hired by the government
The state didn’t hire Disney, they govern the entities within RCID. That’s not the same.

If there was a FL activity that hired Disney to do something. Say a conference, hotel stays, state employee park night, or something else where the state was contracting with Disney to do something, then sure, the state could cancel that contract. Those contracts are the state doing business, not governing. They are not the same.

Although, there was a recent PA case that went the other way and said the state could not use a viewpoint as a condition of contracting. That felt like a bad decision.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom