News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[LAKid53]

The district will have the same land, the same utility use the same road requirements no matter who runs it. The ability of area to repay the bonds that were issued for the area is not diminished. Not my word but Fitch's. Yes the bonds will be paid and the revenue from the taxing in the district will be used to repay them.
All this concern about massive debt being due from the citizens of the county and the state don't amount to much if the bonds are not going to default and the underlying ability to pay them does not change.
All that changes is who collects the tax/fees and who writes the check to the bondholders.

Currently WDW pays RCID for some of those service. IF the district is dissolved as the existing legislation mandates, then taxpayers in Orange and Osceola Counties will have to pay for those services.

I would hope those with cooler heads have seen the ramifications of dissolving a functioning special district that benefited both Orange and Osceola counties.

 

[LAKid53]

More news outlets are reporting that a deal to essentially walk back the legislature's previous actions and leave RCID with only minor changes is in the works.

Florida may reverse decision on Disneyâs Reedy Creek District: report

Florida lawmakers are working on a plan that could resolve the conflict that developed between Gov. DeSantis and the Walt Disney Company.

www.foxbusiness.com

Because the FL Legislature has never, in its history, enacted legislation that it later realized was a bad idea.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The district will have the same land, the same utility use the same road requirements no matter who runs it. The ability of area to repay the bonds that were issued for the area is not diminished. Not my word but Fitch's. Yes the bonds will be paid and the revenue from the taxing in the district will be used to repay them.
All this concern about massive debt being due from the citizens of the county and the state don't amount to much if the bonds are not going to default and the underlying ability to pay them does not change.
All that changes is who collects the tax/fees and who writes the check to the bondholders.

A new district would not necessarily have the same land. One of the other land holders could choose not to participate in the new district.

 

[Dranth]

Has Disney said they would concede that? I see state legislatures saying that, and people suggesting they might. I just can't imagine the precedent they set themselves up for if they concede anything to this.

From a business point of view, if they have no current plans that would be impacted by this, they might as well. Disney has no need of a nuclear plant or an airport. If for some reason they do down the line, they can always come back and work with Florida later. By the time that happens, just about everyone in office won't be there anymore so there is really little downside.

Sure, from a free speech perspective there are a lot of us that would love for them to fight it out to help try and prevent this kind of overreach from happening going forward but I doubt corporate Disney cares enough to invest the time and money when they have an alternative that lets them walk away losing nothing.

 

[JoeCamel]

Currently WDW pays RCID for some of those service. IF the district is dissolved as the existing legislation mandates, then taxpayers in Orange and Osceola Counties will have to pay for those services.

I would hope those with cooler heads have seen the ramifications of dissolving a functioning special district that benefited both Orange and Osceola counties.

Right, no matter who administers the district Disney and the land owners will still pay and the money to pay the bonds will still be available from them to pay them. The operation of the district will be the change but who pays the bonds really does not change.
Unless you think the mouse will declare bankruptcy?

 

[lazyboy97o]

Has Disney said they would concede that? I see state legislatures saying that, and people suggesting they might. I just can't imagine the precedent they set themselves up for if they concede anything to this.

If I were Disney, I would definitely smile and nod at everything. It is the way to run out the clock. Saying “No” now or in the past impairs that because it allows the legislature to work on the complicated problem of properly dissolving the District. The time to refuse is in May when the options have narrowed.

 

[Dranth]

Right, no matter who administers the district Disney and the land owners will still pay and the money to pay the bonds will still be available from them to pay them. The operation of the district will be the change but who pays the bonds really does not change.
Unless you think the mouse will declare bankruptcy?

Maybe I am misunderstanding you and I apologize up front if I do but if the district dissolves Disney no longer has to pay the extra taxes that were part of the special district and no one can force them to do so without them agreeing to it. RCID no longer has to pay for the bonds as they no longer exist.

The reason the bonds will still be paid is because the state of Florida guaranteed them so if the district is dissolved, the state is on the hook. To make it even messier, the local counties would then have to fund and operate all the public services they will inherit that RCID was providing without the ability to raise taxes on just Disney to cover it.

All of that plays into why Florida will walk this back and take whatever concessions they can get to make it look like they did something.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you and I apologize up front if I do but if the district dissolves Disney no longer has to pay the extra taxes that were part of the special district and no one can force them to do so without them agreeing to it. RCID no longer has to pay for the bonds as they no longer exist.

The reason the bonds will still be paid is because the state of Florida guaranteed them so if the district is dissolved, the state is on the hook. To make it even messier, the local counties would then have to fund and operate all the public services they will inherit that RCID was providing without the ability to raise taxes on just Disney to cover it.

All of that plays into why Florida will walk this back and take whatever concessions they can get to make it look like they did something.

It could be more complicated than that. The counties and the state don’t necessarily have the same taxing authority granted to the District and protected by the pledge to
the bond holders. A court could very well decide that the dissolution violates the pledge and the District is to remain.

That bond holders have not acted is something I find very curious. They’re the one’s potentially to be harmed the most under the current law. Even a “compromise” sets a dangerous precedent of allowing the state to change the authority of a bond issuing entity on a whim. Disney giving concessions is not rational and cool headed, it is bad policy and precedent for Disney and the state who could still see the credit rating of the state and/or its bond issuing sub-divisions negatively impacted.

 

[Dranth]

A court could very well decide that the dissolution violates the pledge and the District is to remain.

That bond holders have not acted is something I find very curious.

Hopefully one of the more legal minded board members can correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that because nothing has happened yet there is little standing for any of the parties to do much of anything. If a deal is not reached by the time the district is to be dissolved, I imagine we will see bond holders, the local counties, RCID and maybe even Disney ask for an injunction so that it can go to the courts.

 

[flynnibus]

How is preventing a single entity from engaging in functions other similar entities can engage in a good policy? How is that not a set up for a challenge?

A victory desantis can claim… that really doesn’t cost disney anything.

Compromise

 

[Disstevefan1]

Florida mulls U-turn on move to strip Disney theme-parks of self-governing status - FT​

 

[flynnibus]

How it is not really a loss because they’re not pursuing it right now?

Because they don’t need to do it themselves. And it’s a space that has been politically dead for 20+ years and shows no signs of changing.

It’s like giving up the power to run terrestrial TV broadcasting…. Who cares. They don’t use it… the technology is unfavorable… there are alternatives… and by some chance in the future they need it… they can simply buy the service from someone else. Or get a new entity stood up.

They have no need to do this autonomously. They have no plans to use it. So empty out your attic, throw the GOP a bone, and get back to normal

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hopefully one of the more legal minded board members can correct me if I am wrong but I was under the impression that because nothing has happened yet there is little standing for any of the parties to do much of anything. If a deal is not reached by the time the district is to be dissolved, I imagine we will see bond holders, the local counties, RCID and maybe even Disney ask for an injunction so that it can go to the courts.

Preventing or at least delaying a potential harm are a big reason why injunctions are issued.

A victory desantis can claim… that really doesn’t cost disney anything.

Compromise

Compromise involves mutual concessions. What is the state conceding? To keep calling Disney giving up something, even if small and trivial, while the state does not is not a compromise. To keep calling it compromise is just gaslighting.

 

[flynnibus]

The bigger thing disney would be giving up is they take on any deal that replaces rather than just amends the current rcid law. They would not want to ‘reboot’ so to speak under a new charter/definition in the law.

I foresee a law passed that broadstrokes recinds the gop legislation and then amends the existing rcid act to line item modify it

Compromise- desantis keeps his talking point… deescalation complete

 

[flynnibus]

Compromise involves mutual concessions. What is the state conceding? To keep calling Disney giving up something, even if small and trivial, while the state does not is not a compromise. To keep calling it compromise is just gaslighting.

The aggressor backs off. That’s the compromise.

Yes you can argue disney is in an immutable state so they don’t have to give up anything… but just that fight alone can cost them in many ways that just are not worth it.

Sometimes giving up stuff you don’t have to is still in your best interest. And if disney can make it look like they are conceding things go be more relevant to the current needs… they can buy appeasement of the morons for worthless shells.

 

[celluloid]

When he wasn't with the company he's only representing his personal views. Now he has to represent both, so his responses have to be more measured. It doesn't mean he changed anything. He even said the opposite - that what people label as 'political' sometimes isn't - meaning this isn't actually a political issue despite what is being spun. Its a moral one.

What he is saying with that then it is not political, but it is business. Interesting how it matters when his money and ego are on the line but wanted Chapek to speak out?

And that tells you all you need to know.

 

[LAKid53]

If I were Disney, I would definitely smile and nod at everything. It is the way to run out the clock. Saying “No” now or in the past impairs that because it allows the legislature to work on the complicated problem of properly dissolving the District. The time to refuse is in May when the options have narrowed.

Session ends June 8th. May still gives the Legislature time to pass something.

 

[lazyboy97o]

The aggressor backs off. That’s the compromise.

Yes you can argue disney is in an immutable state so they don’t have to give up anything… but just that fight alone can cost them in many ways that just are not worth it.

Sometimes giving up stuff you don’t have to is still in your best interest. And if disney can make it look like they are conceding things go be more relevant to the current needs… they can buy appeasement of the morons for worthless shells.

No longer being aggressive is not a concession. Even if conceding is in Disney’s best interest and the best way forward, it is not a situation of mutual concession and we should not portray it as such. If you believe Disney making concessions is the best choice then own, don’t hide behind pretending it is something else.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Session ends June 8th. May still gives the Legislature time to pass something.

This whole issue exists because of hastily written legislation. The legislature already determined that proper dissolution would be a long and technical process.

 

[LAKid53]

Maybe I am misunderstanding you and I apologize up front if I do but if the district dissolves Disney no longer has to pay the extra taxes that were part of the special district and no one can force them to do so without them agreeing to it. RCID no longer has to pay for the bonds as they no longer exist.

The reason the bonds will still be paid is because the state of Florida guaranteed them so if the district is dissolved, the state is on the hook. To make it even messier, the local counties would then have to fund and operate all the public services they will inherit that RCID was providing without the ability to raise taxes on just Disney to cover it.

All of that plays into why Florida will walk this back and take whatever concessions they can get to make it look like they did something.

BINGO. Under Florida law, entities cannot tax individuals/corporations at a different rate than what's prescribed by law....unless a special district is created. And that's what the majority of the 1800+ districts (including The Villages) are...they are special districts for tax purposes. So if RCID is dissolved on July 1, 2023, then the additional taxes TWDC paid go away. The services the district provided will then have to be picked up by some entity...the counties in which the 43 square miles reside, the state or another district is created.

Which is why the FL Legislature will walk most of this back.