News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[lazyboy97o]

But I don't believe in the "stick the tax payers of orange / Osceola with the bonds" theory.
Granted I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure there ARE lawyers on both sides, being paid TONS of money right now to figure that out.

It should have been figured out before legislation was passed. Lawyers are being paid tons of money because this was done without forethought and based on a complete misunderstanding of the situation.

 

[GoofGoof]

I question if those money's, as used to draw folks to Florida.. Really are needed to do that. I mean, look EVERYONE knows Florida has beaches and theme parks. Is that something that needs to be advertised anymore, people would come anyways.

The point I was making, as GoofGoof points out, is that.. creatively some of these costs could be mitigated. Is it a long shot?
Yes.. no doubt..100% it's that crazy.

But I don't believe in the "stick the tax payers of orange / Osceola with the bonds" theory.
Granted I'm no lawyer, but I'm sure there ARE lawyers on both sides, being paid TONS of money right now to figure that out.

The money goes towards things like sports stadiums and convention centers. How much money did the Super Bowl in Tampa bring in for the local economy? This is from the Orange County Convention Center website:
The award-winning Orange County Convention Center is the second largest convention facility in the United States. Each year the OCCC attracts more than 230 events to the Central Florida area. As a result, roughly 1.4 million attendees contribute approximately $2.4 billion to the area's economy each year.

That’s a lot of money and visitors to the area. Many bring their families and spend a few days at the local theme parks as well. I think people take FL tourism for granted. We are coming off a pandemic where people were not traveling as often and international travel was almost non-existent. There’s pent up demand and many people are flush with cash from Government stimulus but that won’t last. We are already seeing higher inflation shrinking disposable income, Government money has dried up and we are facing a slowing of the economy that will most likely lead to a recession. Travel and tourism is particularly susceptible to economic downturns so it’s not a great idea to assume FL tourism is too big to fail. There are many options for tourism and as demand shrinks it will become even more crucial for the state to compete.

I do agree that it seems highly unlikely that the taxpayers will just eat a 25% tax increase. The logical answer is reverse course and allow the special district to continue (Either as RCID or another similar district that does virtually the same thing). Then you don’t hurt individual tax payers, you don’t take millions away from promoting the tourism industry and your largest employer doesn’t start pulling back on investing in the state. It’s a win for all Floridians except those who value a political grudge over the economy.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The use of the Tourist taxes is highly restricted by state regulation specifically defining how much can be used for what purpose. This was done specifically to prevent communities from using it as a piggy bank for other purposes.

TDT FAQs

www.occompt.com

Look specifically at- How is the Tourist Development Tax used?

Politicians are good at shuffling money around though, one of the selling points of legalizing MJ here was the taxes were designated to go to our struggling schools, which they do, but after they added the new MJ taxes the politicians then “reallocated” other non-MJ funds away from the schools to other projects.

So the MJ taxes do go to schools but those gains were offset by moving other tax sources away from the schools. Shady and unethical but that’s politics.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

This exactly

The only way the plan to use those tax dollars would work is if the state legislature passed something to allow it and it would be difficult to not open flood gates for every other county. It would be a major blow to the tourism industry. Also, much of the money is used to fund existing things like stadiums and convention centers so how do you stop funding those things and move money to pay off bonds. Then there’s the political contributions coming from a whole bunch of industry players that would be at risk. Money talks and state and local politicians don’t have the big donations coming in from national sources like the Governor does. They rely almost solely on those donations to run campaigns and stay in office. It’s much to risk for a political stunt.

I agree. I think a ticket tax/increased hotel occupancy fees is how the state will propose to help finance the debts incurred either by the state itself or on behalf of Orange and Osceola counties.

Since a “tourist tax” wouldn’t be perceived as a tax increase on Florida homeowners directly in the same way a property tax was this is a more palatable option for DeSantis.

I’m sure there’s be legal issues with this and it would likely start an issue with the large entertainment entities. But I don’t think legislators or the Governor care as long as they at least can insulate the voters from the impact at a prima facie level. Then when this is struck down they can always blame “woke entertainment companies” for raising middle class families property taxes.

Note: I’m speaking to this only from a political standpoint as to how this could play out. I also don’t this this is prudent policy plan or legally permissible. But it’s a short term political play.

 

[Thelazer]

Trust me, I know the OCCC well. It's a money sucking pit, the Tax money that is... place has been built, rebuilt, overbuilt and STILL charges attendee's way too much to park and way too much to exhibit there.

 

[peter11435]

I agree. I think a ticket tax/increased hotel occupancy fees is how the state will propose to help finance the debts incurred either by the state itself or on behalf of Orange and Osceola counties.

Since a “tourist tax” wouldn’t be perceived as a tax increase on Florida homeowners directly in the same way a property tax was this is a more palatable option for DeSantis.

I’m sure there’s be legal issues with this and it would likely start an issue with the large entertainment entities. But I don’t think legislators or the Governor care as long as they at least can insulate the voters from the impact at a prima facie level. Then when this is struck down they can always blame “woke entertainment companies” for raising middle class families property taxes.

Note: I’m speaking to this only from a political standpoint as to how this could play out. I also don’t this this is prudent policy plan or legally permissible. But it’s a short term political play.

Or they could have just not started this mess in the first place.

 

[ParentsOf4]

It should have been figured out before legislation was passed.

If they had figured it out before passing the legislation, they would have realized it was idiotic and wouldn’t have done it.

 

[GoofGoof]

I agree. I think a ticket tax/increased hotel occupancy fees is how the state will propose to help finance the debts incurred either by the state itself or on behalf of Orange and Osceola counties.

Since a “tourist tax” wouldn’t be perceived as a tax increase on Florida homeowners directly in the same way a property tax was this is a more palatable option for DeSantis.

I’m sure there’s be legal issues with this and it would likely start an issue with the large entertainment entities. But I don’t think legislators or the Governor care as long as they at least can insulate the voters from the impact at a prima facie level. Then when this is struck down they can always blame “woke entertainment companies” for raising middle class families property taxes.

Note: I’m speaking to this only from a political standpoint as to how this could play out. I also don’t this this is prudent policy plan or legally permissible. But it’s a short term political play.

I agree that politically it’s more palatable to taxpayers than increasing real estate taxes on everyone. There’s a reason why when cities build new sports stadiums for the billionaire owners they fund it with hotel taxes since that’s not a direct tax on the people who elected you. I also agree it may be a short term political win but if we move into a recession and the economy starts to suffer and tourism is down opponents will point to this move and place the blame on the current government. You will also have large sums of dollars from the various travel industry players looking to back candidates that support the industry. It may be easy to primary out the current elected officials with candidates that are flush with corporate cash and running on pro-business, pro-economy agendas.

FL is also facing a major housing bubble that looks primed to burst. If the real estate market flat lines and tourism is down due to a recession people will quickly abandon their support for these social issues in favor of their own wallets. It’s easy to take the booming economy for granted, but a smart leader thinks 3 steps ahead.

 

[GoofGoof]

If they had figured it out before passing the legislation, they would have realized it was idiotic and wouldn’t have done it.

This about sums up 247 pages of discussion. All these scenarios are the result of self inflicted pain. It’s not too late to reverse course which I still think is the most likely scenario.

 

[MaryJaneP]

It should have been figured out before legislation was passed. Lawyers are being paid tons of money because this was done without forethought and based on a complete misunderstanding of the situation.

Any ideas on where the "tons of money", being paid to the lawyers , is coming from. Is this a lose-lose situation? It would seem that FL taxpayers AND WDW are going to spend money that, ideally, should be spent building rather than destroying.

 

[Polkadotdress]

I agree. I think a ticket tax/increased hotel occupancy fees is how the state will propose to help finance the debts incurred either by the state itself or on behalf of Orange and Osceola counties.

Since a “tourist tax” wouldn’t be perceived as a tax increase on Florida homeowners directly in the same way a property tax was this is a more palatable option for DeSantis.

I would disagree with this, as the hotels and theme parks don’t want to do anything that could potentially drive away business. An increase hotel/ticket tax might not sit well with the general public, as they make their vacation plans.

 

[Lilofan]

I would disagree with this, as the hotels and theme parks don’t want to do anything that could potentially drive away business. An increase hotel/ticket tax might not sit well with the general public, as they make their vacation plans.

I believe an increase in hotel tax is just another increase in a vacationers spending. Different times of the year the hotel room rates fluctuate, plane fares , etc ( off season , high season ) and with 12/25-31 sky high rates ). Vacationers are still going to spend , enjoy and at times complain. A number I know have been working from home, saving on costs , getting very nice salary increases including performance bonuses and can’t wait to spend and enjoy.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

I would disagree with this, as the hotels and theme parks don’t want to do anything that could potentially drive away business. An increase hotel/ticket tax might not sit well with the general public, as they make their vacation plans.

What percentage of the general public actually vote in Florida general elections, let alone partisan primaries? Contrast that to Florida homeowners that are extremely politically active.

It’s an idiotic strategy that will do long term damage to be sure, but short term politics does not make smart policy.

 

[GoofGoof]

What percentage of the general public actually vote in Florida general elections, let alone partisan primaries? Contrast that to Florida homeowners that are extremely politically active.

It’s an idiotic strategy that will do long term damage to be sure, but short term politics does not make smart policy.

And don’t forget that for local elections those political donations from the travel industry are much more likely to tilt the results than in a larger statewide or national election. People running at that level find it much more difficult to get grass roots donations and it’s much easier to swing an election if a candidate is flush with cash to spend. It doesn’t even matter that the districts are gerrymandered in favor of one party, candidates can be knocked out just as easy in a primary by someone from their own party.

 

[GoofGoof]

It would be interesting to see if Reuters asked more interesting questions like, “Will you continue to support a company, no matter how beloved, who uses its full corporate power to very publicly overturn laws in your state?” “Do you agree that a huge corporation, beloved by many, should decide the topics your children are exposed to in elementary school?”

I wouldn’t put much stock in partisan polls. When was the last time any were even close to correct or even within 10 points?

Hasn’t Disney been using their political power to influence FL politics for over 50 years now? DeSantis didn’t seem to think it was a problem when he took $50K from them for his campaign and neither did the sponsors of this bill who almost all took money as well. Funny how corporations in politics is suddenly wrong but wasn’t when the checks were clearing.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hasn’t Disney been using their political power to influence FL politics for over 50 years now? DeSantis didn’t seem to think it was a problem when he took $50K from them for his campaign and neither did the sponsors of this bill who almost all took money as well. Funny how corporations in politics is suddenly wrong but wasn’t when the checks were clearing.

The whole thing is a lie. It’s framed as Disney having some sort of control over state law. The whole issue is constantly mischaracterized as a matter of course because that’s the only way it is defensible.

 

[Surferboy567]

I still think the silence is strange. I saw that even the firefighters seem to not know what this means for them. Sure, their is plenty of time for them to figure out a solution.

 

[DisneyDebRob]

This about sums up 247 pages of discussion. All these scenarios are the result of self inflicted pain. It’s not too late to reverse course which I still think is the most likely scenario.

Its not to late as you say to reverse course but being most likely? No way will he reverse . I dont see how he can save face which seems to be very important to him and his followers. If theres a way out, like some have mentioned here , and he LOOKS like he has won to his people, then maybe. If he cant find that angle he will continue until he loses(IMO) then blane it on someone or others for it. Ive seen this movie many times before.

 

[GoofGoof]

The whole thing is a lie. It’s framed as Disney having some sort of control over state law. The whole issue is constantly mischaracterized as a matter of course because that’s the only way it is defensible.

I don’t disagree. The original bill passed and is law now. This is being spun as we have to strip Disney of a “special tax benefit” to prevent them from overturning that original law. In reality Disney has no more ability to overturn a law as you or I do. it’s also no more or less likely that the original law is overturned now that RCID is being dissolved. In other words getting rid of RCID isn’t protecting children in any way.

 

[The Mom]

Be wary of delving into politics.