News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Willmark]

I'm going to go slightly off-topic for a second, as this is related to the question of whether people can honestly support a company whose politics they disagree with.

We recently had a big hub-bub in one of our town Facebook groups. A restaurant owner added a charge to every receipt to help make up for the rise in costs, and instead of calling it a "Rise in Costs Fee" or some other benign name, he called it the "Let's Go Biden Charge". Big surprise...someone posted it on Reddit, and the restaurant was hit with 6000 negative reviews by people who'd never eaten there and a few Board of Health complaints that were totally bogus.

Naturally, those supporting the restaurant owner posted in the group and were complaining about the reviews and BoH reports - which is totally understandable. But when a handful of us commented that we supported the business owner's right to say whatever he wants, but that he should have expected blow-back after making an antagonistic political statement and alienating potentially 50% of his customers, we were attacked, name-called, etc. etc., EVEN AFTER agreeing that the false negative reviews and BoH reports were wrong.

So everyone involved in the discussion supported the owner's right to say what he wanted and that the negative reviews were wrong - there was nearly 100% agreement on those 2 points - but as soon as it was pointed out that he took a risk in the choice he made (which he did), everything went south.

I'm not sure what more the opposing side can do when they're openly supporting someone whose politics they don't agree with and still getting attacked, but this whole situation illustrates that yes - people can and will openly support someone (or a business) whose politics they don't agree with if it is clear that party has been wronged.

Interesting case, thanks for sharing.

Couple of points:
1. In this day and age it’s pretty dumb for said owner to do so.

2. Reddit? Ugh some of it is good, some bad. Usually best left not participating.

3. I’d say yours is an interesting case. I’m curious how many others though here and elsewhere would have the same opinion?

Lastly those who have said it’s a free speech issue? It might be, might not I could see arguments either way. I’m probably the closest to a free speech absolutist around here and generally speaking want free speech as much as possible. Would be an interesting discussion to take elsewhere as I’m curious to others stances (not the political forum refugees, we largely know where each other stands).

 

[WDW Pro]

If you want to understand the Disney / Reedy Creek / Bay Lake / Lake Buena Vista issue at a much higher level than you'll get on mainstream news, I recommend the following video:



Some of the video content comes from an article we have at TPP via our legal analyst:

1. We should find out at some point in the future who is the underwriter for the Reedy Creek bonds that have liabilities north of a billion dollars. The underwriter is important for how much of this will play out.
2. The Walt Disney Company is going to struggle finding a way into court to take on Florida over this issue. The reason is that RCID is a special district governed by two municipalities that are supposed to be separate from The Walt Disney Company. Therefore, Disney itself is a third party to any claim against damages done to the RCID.
3. However, the RCID could file for an injunction and claim that damage has been done by the State of Florida for a variety of possible legal theories. There are two problems with this strategy. A) This could expose the special district to scrutiny of the municipalities that it may not want, and B) such a legal action would likely require approval by said municipalities. It also would put the legal proceedings into Florida courts, which might not be as likely a place for Disney to find a positive ruling.

 

[Prince-1]

If this were another company besides Disney, would people here be so strongly behind them?

I’m guessing likely not.

And I have no particular dog in this squabble in Florida.

It is like giving to charities, people decide to donate for a myriad of reasons that are meaningful to them and people are behind Disney in this fight for personal reasons as well. But I can tell you that if a governor targeted a business because they didn't kiss his/her tarnished ring I would be supporting that business as much as i could

 

[Willmark]

It is like giving to charities, people decide to donate for a myriad of reasons that are meaningful to them and people are behind Disney in this fight for personal reasons as well. But I can tell you that if a governor targeted a business because they didn't kiss his/her tarnished ring I would be supporting that business as much as i could

Building off your last part.

I’m usually going to side with businesses in almost any matter as well but where I have the most pause is RCID itself. It’s a curious case. I get the hows and why’s of it coming about. But at the heart of it, what is it’s purpose in this day and age?

Seems more than a tad murky IMO.

 

[Willmark]

If you want to understand the Disney / Reedy Creek / Bay Lake / Lake Buena Vista issue at a much higher level than you'll get on mainstream news, I recommend the following video:



Some of the video content comes from an article we have at TPP via our legal analyst:

1. We should find out at some point in the future who is the underwriter for the Reedy Creek bonds that have liabilities north of a billion dollars. The underwriter is important for how much of this will play out.
2. The Walt Disney Company is going to struggle finding a way into court to take on Florida over this issue. The reason is that RCID is a special district governed by two municipalities that are supposed to be separate from The Walt Disney Company. Therefore, Disney itself is a third party to any claim against damages done to the RCID.
3. However, the RCID could file for an injunction and claim that damage has been done by the State of Florida for a variety of possible legal theories. There are two problems with this strategy. A) This could expose the special district to scrutiny of the municipalities that it may not want, and B) such a legal action would likely require approval by said municipalities. It also would put the legal proceedings into Florida courts, which might not be as likely a place for Disney to find a positive ruling.

Thanks for sharing, look forward to watching this.

 

[lazyboy97o]

If you want to understand the Disney / Reedy Creek / Bay Lake / Lake Buena Vista issue at a much higher level than you'll get on mainstream news, I recommend the following video:



Some of the video content comes from an article we have at TPP via our legal analyst:

1. We should find out at some point in the future who is the underwriter for the Reedy Creek bonds that have liabilities north of a billion dollars. The underwriter is important for how much of this will play out.
2. The Walt Disney Company is going to struggle finding a way into court to take on Florida over this issue. The reason is that RCID is a special district governed by two municipalities that are supposed to be separate from The Walt Disney Company. Therefore, Disney itself is a third party to any claim against damages done to the RCID.
3. However, the RCID could file for an injunction and claim that damage has been done by the State of Florida for a variety of possible legal theories. There are two problems with this strategy. A) This could expose the special district to scrutiny of the municipalities that it may not want, and B) such a legal action would likely require approval by said municipalities. It also would put the legal proceedings into Florida courts, which might not be as likely a place for Disney to find a positive ruling.

High level? That’s funny.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Building off your last part.

I’m usually going to side with businesses in alarmist any matter as well but where I have the most pause is RCID itself. It’s a curious case. I get the hows and why’s of it coming about. But at the heart of it, what is it’s purpose in this day and age?

Seems more than a tad murky IMO.

Nothing murky about it. It’s been answered many times. You can go read about it on their website.

 

[mikejs78]

If you want to understand the Disney / Reedy Creek / Bay Lake / Lake Buena Vista issue at a much higher level than you'll get on mainstream news, I recommend the following video:



Some of the video content comes from an article we have at TPP via our legal analyst:

1. We should find out at some point in the future who is the underwriter for the Reedy Creek bonds that have liabilities north of a billion dollars. The underwriter is important for how much of this will play out.
2. The Walt Disney Company is going to struggle finding a way into court to take on Florida over this issue. The reason is that RCID is a special district governed by two municipalities that are supposed to be separate from The Walt Disney Company. Therefore, Disney itself is a third party to any claim against damages done to the RCID.
3. However, the RCID could file for an injunction and claim that damage has been done by the State of Florida for a variety of possible legal theories. There are two problems with this strategy. A) This could expose the special district to scrutiny of the municipalities that it may not want, and B) such a legal action would likely require approval by said municipalities. It also would put the legal proceedings into Florida courts, which might not be as likely a place for Disney to find a positive ruling.

This video was brought up much earlier in the thread and debunked as having a ton of basic facts wrong about RCID.

 

[mmascari]

where I have the most pause is RCID itself. It’s a curious case. I get the hows and why’s of it coming about. But at the heart of it, what is it’s purpose in this day and age?

What's the purpose of a town or city government in this day and age?
What's the purpose of a county government in this day and age?
For that matter, why even have the different state governments?
Why not have the ultimate State mange all the rules and only have Federal government and nothing else.

Is that really what you're asking?

 

[mikejs78]

Building off your last part.

I’m usually going to side with businesses in alarmist any matter as well but where I have the most pause is RCID itself. It’s a curious case. I get the hows and why’s of it coming about. But at the heart of it, what is it’s purpose in this day and age?

Seems more than a tad murky IMO.

It's a mutually benefiting organization between Disney and the taxpayers of Florida. For Disney, it allows a degree of control and not having to go through bureaucracy to get things done, such as roadways, infrastructure, etc. It's part of what creates the Disney bubble.

For the taxpayers, it gives the benefit of all this infrastructure put into Florida without having to pay taxes on it - and, since Disney is probably the biggest draw of any vacation destination anywhere, brings a lot of business into the state of Florida.

For example, if you look at Universal, the city of Orlando has to do a ton of work (at taxpayer expense) and infrastructure for their new theme park. None of that has to happen for Disney whenever they add something new.

 

[flynnibus]

If you want to understand the Disney / Reedy Creek / Bay Lake / Lake Buena Vista issue at a much higher level than you'll get on mainstream news, I recommend the following video:

Nahh... this 'reporting' was already torn up earlier.

 

[lazyboy97o]

For example, if you look at Universal, the city of Orlando has to do a ton of work (at taxpayer expense) and infrastructure for their new theme park.

Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure are in Orlando. Epic Universe is in unincorporated Orange County.

 

[WDW Pro]

This video was brought up much earlier in the thread and debunked as having a ton of basic facts wrong about RCID.

Such as?

I'd be very interested in knowing what the Florida attorney specializing in special districts, as well as a second Florida attorney we have as a legal analyst at TPP, both managed to get wrong.

 

[GoofGoof]

Since RCID was created exclusively for TWDC and to the benefit of TWDC for the management of the its land, it will be interesting to see in all this legal wrangling what obligations evolve for TWDC toward the RCID bond holders.

I don’t think it matters. Muni bonds are muni bonds. They cannot be transferred to a corporation. That’s not how it works.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

If this were another company besides Disney, would people here be so strongly behind them?

I’m guessing likely not.

And I have no particular dog in this squabble in Florida.

Speaking only for myself, the answer is Yes. I was opposed to other local governments targeting Chick-Fil-A just as I'm opposed to what DeSantis and his cronies are trying to do.

 

[mikejs78]

Such as?

I'd be very interested in knowing what the Florida attorney specializing in special districts, as well as a second Florida attorney we have as a legal analyst at TPP, both managed to get wrong.

Post in thread 'Florida Legislators Want To Remove The Reedy Creek Improvement District' https://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads...eek-improvement-district.976968/post-10239250

 

[mikejs78]

Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure are in Orlando. Epic Universe is in unincorporated Orange County.

Thanks, my mistake.

 

[GoofGoof]

From Gov. DeSantis' press secretary:

via Twitter

This is pure political spin. They know that Disney doesn’t actually receive a tax break by having RCID and they also know that Disney actually pays more than their fair share because of it since they pay Orange and Osceola County taxes as well as taxes to RCID. Part of the taxes Disney pays to Orange and Osceola pays for emergency services, roads and utilities in those counties but Disney sees no benefit from those things since RCID provides them for Disney’s property.

He asks why would Disney oppose repealing the special district if it isn’t a tax break….the answer is loss of control and also loss of the ability to finance infrastructure projects off balance sheet and pay for them over time with tax payments. The only motive isn‘t to save on taxes. So either he’s a fool since some guy who lives out of state and has no real skin in the game knows this stuff and he, as the sitting Governor, does not or he’s creating political spin. If he tries to explain the real benefits he loses most people and its a better “corporate villain story” if he frames it as Disney not paying their share.

One final point in this is how overblown the liberal bias in the media is In certain cases. Do a Google search and you will find hundreds of articles from all sorts of main stream media outlets that are reporting this as Disney losing a tax break just how the Governor wants it. The media in general is lazy and often just wants a story that sells. It is true there is a liberal bias but stories like this show it’s not always the case.

 

[Willmark]

What's the purpose of a town or city government in this day and age?
What's the purpose of a county government in this day and age?
For that matter, why even have the different state governments?
Why not have the ultimate State mange all the rules and only have Federal government and nothing else.

Is that really what you're asking?

I said or implied any of these?

And obvious hyperbole is obvious.

 

[flynnibus]

One final point in this is how overblown the liberal bias in the media is In certain cases

Which is one of the reasons I said Disney should do nothing and let RCID fight this on its boring legal footing - not making this an emotional fight over rights, etc. Save that for later... let the boring financial types win it for you.