News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[GimpYancIent]

@GimpYancIent you laugh, but if Disney can still do whatever it wants through OC (and purchase any RCID land it wants in the meantime) what benefit does RCID offer them? If the tax burden would be less than the cost to operate RCID...

Heck, Epic Universe was offered a blanket approval for their build. WDW would be offered the same for their projects.

Asking honestly.

I laugh because it is all "if". All the plus and minus factors have not been placed on the scale yet, a lot of speculation though.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

There’s still a value to control.

If Disney wanted to have the District dissolved they could just ask for it to happen.

Could they? It would look like a major corporation trying to move the financial burden of operating their theme parks onto the local taxpayers. And that's exactly how it would be spun in the media.

 

[Animal_Kingdom_09]

In an apparent stand off with The Walt Disney Company, some Florida legislators are meeting to discuss the possibility of removing the Reedy Creek Improvement District and stripping Disney of its semi self government status. This is as Disney says they are working to have a new law struck down passed by the Governor this week.

The 1967 act allowed Disney to create the Reedy Creek Improvement District, the self-described purpose being “to support and administer certain aspects of the economic development and tourism within District boundaries.” The creation of the district means Walt Disney World and other landowners pay for local essential services like water, electricity, fire protection, and emergency medical services instead of local taxpayers.

Well, Tallahassee wouldn't actually dissolve Reedy Creek, the worst that they would do is transfer its authority back to the counties (Orange and Osceola). While they certainly have the authority to dissolve the district, doing so would cause a lot of uncertainty for the other community development districts in the state, and that would be an actual problem. Lots of voters with money live in CDD's.

Transferring the district back to the counties really would not change much for Disney. Reedy Creek was set up so that Walt would have control to build Progress City as well as a way to fund it, the way developers fund neighborhoods in Florida today. That is not much of an issue in 2022.

My opinion is that this is just posturing by Tallahassee. Bob threatened to try and overturn the legislation, which is, at its core, a threat to try and vote out enough yes votes and replace them with no votes. Poke a politician with a stick and they will bark - loudly.

They real threat is if this gets out of control and a group of voters decides to put a ballot initiative out there to dissolve Reedy Creek. That can bypass the Legislature and the Governor and who knows if it passes or not. Most Floridians are not actually tied to Disney; it is more of an Orlando thing. Disney doesn't help its cause by going after a law that appears to be popular with mothers. If they decide to take action they certainly have influence. Exhibit A - Virginia. And we Floridians actually passed an initiative years ago regulating the cages that pigs are required to have, so anything is possible.

The best bet is for both sides to quietly go back to their corners and leave it alone.

 

[Disney Glimpses]

RCID built Disney all three Disney Springs parking garages through municipal bonds. The Orange and Lime garages were a combined $85 million. Because these were publicly-funded projects, there was no tax assessed. Additionally, RCID continues to maintain and operate them.

That's just one of many benefits Disney enjoys by way of the RCID.

TTC parking lot too I believe.

 

[lazyboy97o]

While Disney won't likely close the parks, they can easily move many back office roles and the corporate roles at the new Lake Nona offices elsewhere. Those are thousands of jobs, many paying rather good wages.

Beyond that, there is precedent to companies abandoning capital assets and infrastructure behind when incentives go away (see elimination of Section 936 of the federal tax code in Puerto Rico)

If you think about it, even Walt Disney Imagineering could be located outside Florida. It was already based on the other side of the country in California. Would being located somewhere more in the middle of the country be worse? Herschend Family Entertainment is not based near Silver Dollar City or Dollywood, they’re outside Atlanta. If Universal Studios Beijing can be designed half a world away and Galaxy’s Edge a continent away, why can’t something be designed a few states away?

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The one thing Disney could do is call off Lake Nona, but do the politicians pushing this really want a bunch of people from Southern California working in the entertainment business moving to Florida anyway?

I think that would be a hollow threat, Disney publicly feuded with CA all of last year, everyone knows they want to reduce their workforce in CA.

They could try to find a new state but then they’re starting at square one trying to get tax incentives, find land, etc, again.

What I find interesting is they’re now publicly feuding with both states they have a major presence in, Chapek clearly isn’t capable of the PR side of running a company the size of Disney.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Could they? It would look like a major corporation trying to move the financial burden of operating their theme parks onto the local taxpayers. And that's exactly how it would be spun in the media.

If that is how the public would see it then the whole issue is a political nonstarter. The conspiracy doesn’t work because the constituents won’t be happy.

 

[Lilofan]

If you think about it, even Walt Disney Imagineering could be located outside Florida. It was already based on the other side of the country in California. Would being located somewhere more in the middle of the country be worse? Herschend Family Entertainment is not based near Silver Dollar City or Dollywood, they’re outside Atlanta. If Universal Studios Beijing can be designed half a world away why and Galaxy’s Edge a continent away, why can’t something be designed a few states away?

WDI should continue to be in Central FL. When they need to be in parks and resorts 24/7 working on projects with operations crews and meeting deadlines it doesn't work when one does it through zoom many miles away.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I was thinking about it.
Disneyland exists fine in one of the most highest tax, highest regulated states in the US. So in the worst case scenario and WDW loses RCID, WDW should be able to exist fine in one of the lowest taxed, lowest regulated states in the US.

 

[lazyboy97o]

WDI should continue to be in Central FL. When they need to be in parks and resorts 24/7 working on projects with operations crews and meeting deadlines it doesn't work when one does it through zoom many miles away.

How can they continue to do something they’re not doing? The field office doesn’t design major attractions.

 

[Lilofan]

How can they continue to do something they’re not doing? The field office doesn’t design major attractions.

To be more efficient and all WDI teams working together with WDW cast etc , field ops, non field ops need and continue to be in the same area ( ie FL ) not located in other states

 

[lazyboy97o]

To be more efficient and all WDI teams working together with WDW cast etc , field ops, non field ops need and continue to be in the same area ( ie FL ) not located in other states

How does being Florida versus California make Walt Disney Imagineering more efficient working on a project in France?

 

[peter11435]

To be more efficient and all WDI teams working together with WDW cast etc , field ops, non field ops need and continue to be in the same area ( ie FL ) not located in other states

His point was they can’t continue to be in Florida when they haven’t been to begin with. Major projects at WDW are designed in California. People like Joe and Zach don’t live in Florida.

 

[flynnibus]

@GimpYancIent you laugh, but if Disney can still do whatever it wants through OC (and purchase any RCID land it wants in the meantime) what benefit does RCID offer them? If the tax burden would be less than the cost to operate RCID...

Control of the bureaucracy and less chance for stalls or detours. Complete control of who is in the room for the covered topics. Basically it is just a way to keep people out of your hair.

But I'm sure at least one time Disney has probably ran the numbers and said "eliminating RCID and switching to public services would reduce our OpEx and CapEx spend..."

I doubt RCID is the cheaper path for Disney in the near term - it's all about control and a great way to borrow money cheap for projects you can put in RCID's bucket instead of your own.

 

[mkt]

If you think about it, even Walt Disney Imagineering could be located outside Florida. It was already based on the other side of the country in California. Would being located somewhere more in the middle of the country be worse? Herschend Family Entertainment is not based near Silver Dollar City or Dollywood, they’re outside Atlanta. If Universal Studios Beijing can be designed half a world away and Galaxy’s Edge a continent away, why can’t something be designed a few states away?

Not just that.

Legal, HR, Compliance, Marketing, Finance, Risk, etc... not a single one of those jobs has to be done in Florida.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

Control of the bureaucracy and less chance for stalls or detours. Complete control of who is in the room for the covered topics. Basically it is just a way to keep people out of your hair.

But I'm sure at least one time Disney has probably ran the numbers and said "eliminating RCID and switching to public services would reduce our OpEx and CapEx spend..."

I doubt RCID is the cheaper path for Disney in the near term - it's all about control and a great way to borrow money cheap for projects you can put in RCID's bucket instead of your own.

The irony being RCiD allows Disney to eliminate the red tape that normally slows projects by years, and then takes 3 years building something that should take 1 year anyway.

 

[Kamikaze]

If you think about it, even Walt Disney Imagineering could be located outside Florida. It was already based on the other side of the country in California. Would being located somewhere more in the middle of the country be worse? Herschend Family Entertainment is not based near Silver Dollar City or Dollywood, they’re outside Atlanta. If Universal Studios Beijing can be designed half a world away and Galaxy’s Edge a continent away, why can’t something be designed a few states away?

They are only moving the jobs for the tax breaks (and the hopes that some long time CMs won't go so they can replace them with cheaper CMs). If those tax breaks don't exist they won't continue with the move. Or like you said, someone else gives them a better offer.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I didn't say that they weren't. But don't act surprised that Legislators want a new look at the RCID law either.

That’s stupid…a lot of that going around lately

 

[donsullivan]

They are only moving the jobs for the tax breaks (and the hopes that some long time CMs won't go so they can replace them with cheaper CMs). If those tax breaks don't exist they won't continue with the move. Or like you said, someone else gives them a better offer.

I don’t think there is much question that the Lake Nona move is intended to force a cultural change in Imagineering that can only be achieved with a relocation. It’s actually a common practice for companies to do that. It triggers an organizational purge that wouldn’t happen any other way and you restructure it for the future.

But the reality is, the global home of the theme park development industry is Orlando, with most all of the major players in ride systems, lighting, construction, show elements, and the list goes on, all based, or with major presence here. All of the vendors a company like Disney would work with are here.

 

[World_Showcase_Lover007]

When was there a hearing for each of the attractions at Epic Universe? When was the hearing for the new coasters at SeaWorld? Orange County already allows the parks to develop largely as they desire.

Guess they didn’t invite you to them…