News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[peter11435]

Not news here - was brought up when RCID issued it's statement to the Bond market. But now that a few news pieces have started to pick up on it, maybe it will get more attention.

But like I said.. not news here

It’s also worth noting that thus far the only public response to the legislation from Disney/RCID has been in reference to this specific item.

 

[flynnibus]

My concern with trying to let this play out in Florida courts is that DeSantis is more likely to get a sympathetic judiciary.

This kind of stuff is unlikely to ever see a jury. Plus, another reason to make this about the boring legal conflicts and less about any emotional topics like freedoms.

 

[ctrlaltdel]

This kind of stuff is unlikely to ever see a jury. Plus, another reason to make this about the boring legal conflicts and less about any emotional topics like freedoms.

Plus, judges are some of the most unpredictable people (speaking as someone who deals with them quite a bit). Trust me, even judges who you think have a certain worldview are completely different if you're on the right topic.

 

[John park hopper]

Yes, the "media" of the time revealed what was going on and then came the land price spike. "Emily Bavar (identified as 'Girl Reporter') fingered Disney as the buyer in 1965. Source: Orlando Sentinel Of course, people started to notice the massive land purchases and began to speculate about the identity of the mystery buyer. At one point, there was a rumor that it was Ford."

My mother and stepdad were living in Florida at the time and bought property just before the prices jumped I don't remember how they heard about Disney's plans. Step dad worked in the tax accessors office may have been there. Don't know how they made out on the sale

 

[Nubs70]

How? Give us specifics.

How is Disney paying 100% for a new road while Universal is only paying 50% a disadvantage to Universal?

Busch Gardens Tampa isn’t even “level” with Busch Gardens Williamsburg, so this claim of industry wide fairness is just bogus.

Disney should pay for 100% of their roads.
Universal should be paying for 100% of their roads

 

[ctrlaltdel]

On the topic of roads (among other things) my head is just hurting imagining the number of easement agreements RCID has with Disney. It has to number in the tens of thousands, if not more. That alone will take years to untangle if the counties take over maintenance of roads on the property.

 

[peter11435]

Disney should pay for 100% of their roads.
Universal should be paying for 100% of their roads

Then you should be a big fan of Disney’s 1967-present arrangement

 

[flynnibus]

Disney should pay for 100% of their roads.
Universal should be paying for 100% of their roads

Life isn't that simple... try to define 'their'

Big part of planning is about the infrastructure that integrates these private developments into the area. Feeders, adjacent areas, etc.

This is why land use and zoning control is such a big deal.. its how municipalities basically force developers into paying for things that aren't 'theirs' to get their exceptions/changed approved so they share in the costs.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Disney should pay for 100% of their roads.
Universal should be paying for 100% of their roads

Then what’s the problem with the District? Disney is paying more than 100% for their roads because they still pay the county taxes.

 

[mmascari]

But without RCID, those projects would largely (if not entirely) be funded by the taxpayers of the county in which the projects took place. Maybe not the Disney Springs parking garages (but there would probably be some amount of public funding there, too, possibly resulting in parking fees to cover the cost of financing). Or the projects just wouldn't get done at all. Do you think Disney would build and maintain new roads on its own without any sort of ability to get a lower interest rate on its financing like it does with RCID?

I think lots of them don't get done at all is what would happen. For instance, I doubt the World Drive fly over would have happened.

Long list of benefits for tourists? The visitors, travelers, tourists to the area derive what from RCID? The folks passing through could care less about RCID.

Liability for infrastructure improvements solely for WDW benefit would be on WDW not on the quasi government entity of RDI.

Disney should pay for 100% of their roads.
Universal should be paying for 100% of their roads

I asked this before, and everyone just ignored it. Is someone passing through making this drive traveling on public RCID roads or on private Disney roads?

Route:

If I was to make this drive: https://goo.gl/maps/yaD8vPCYPghS8Wqz7
From: Walmart Supercenter 2855 N Old Lake Wilson Rd, Kissimmee, FL 34747
To: Taco Bell 7970 Winter Garden Vineland Rd, Windermere, FL 34786

Driving up World Drive and Floridian Way to Reams Road. Including driving through the recently updated fly over on World Drive.

Are those public roads maintained by RCID?
Are those private roads maintained by Disney?
Is it both?
If it's both, when does the switching happen?
For the recently updated fly over specifically, is that an RCID road or a Disney road?

If that's not an RCID road, but a private Disney road, then where along that route does World Drive change from a public RCID road into a private Disney road? Is it right at the 192 exit ramp? Somewhere after Osceola Parkway or Epcot Center Drive? Could Disney move the toll plaza and prevent making this trip without a park ticket?

Map for reference:

It's whatever they choose to annex into the RCID. Here's the current map: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reedy_Creek_Improvement_District#/map/0

Many people may think of them all as "WDW" roads, but that's not really true and the difference matters here. If Everything on that RCID map was transferred back to Disney and all those roads made private roads, ticket booth at the boarders. Just one huge unpassable block of land if you don't have a ticket. That would have a major impact.

 

[Nubs70]

Then you should be a big fan of Disney’s 1967-present arrangement

No, bonds sold to fund these items are on the books of RCID not WDW.

Bond liabilities need to be on WDW books

 

[peter11435]

I think lots of them don't get done at all is what would happen. For instance, I doubt the World Drive fly over would have happened.






I asked this before, and everyone just ignored it. Is someone passing through making this drive traveling on public RCID roads or on private Disney roads?

Route:

Map for reference:


Many people may think of them all as "WDW" roads, but that's not really true and the difference matters here. If Everything on that RCID map was transferred back to Disney and all those roads made private roads, ticket booth at the boarders. Just one huge unpassable block of land if you don't have a ticket. That would have a major impact.

Current state that would be a mix of roads owned by the district and roads owned by WDW.

 

[peter11435]

No, bonds sold to fund these items are on the books of RCID not WDW.

Bond liabilities need to be on WDW books

And RCID pays those bonds with tax revenue collected from Disney.

Bond liabilities for infrastructure improvements at Universal, Sea World, or any other county tax payer aren’t on that tax payers books. But those bonds are paid by locals taxpayers

 

[lazyboy97o]

No, bonds sold to fund these items are on the books of RCID not WDW.

Bond liabilities need to be on WDW books

And this harms who? Why does it matter? Disney pays the extra taxes that finance those bonds.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

No, because the governor has a plan! And it’s a great plan! The best plan! You’ve never seen a plan like this plan!

I just don't understand how anyone can argue this isn't anything other than an utterly irrational and irresponsible move the more all of these issues come to the surface and are discussed by sources people may trust more than this forum. It's plainly obvious that no-one from the governor on down considered the impact of the move beyond how it would play politically.

Even if you think RCID should be dissolved, surely you would agree this was not the way to do it? I also don't know why anyone would have any faith that any of the major actors involved in pushing this through will suddenly be sober and rational, putting aside self-interest and working with stakeholders to resolve the mess they've created and find the best possible outcome for all involved. That would be quite a left-turn.

 

[mmascari]

Current state that would be a mix of roads owned by the district and roads owned by WDW.

Can you point to a spot where you change from a public road (RCID) to a private road (WDW) on that route?

Genuinely curious. I picked that route on purpose. First because it use the new World Drive fly over, and second because someone could make that trip just passing through. It wasn't just because I like Taco Bell (although, I do and it's a personal failing).

 

[lazyboy97o]

I just don't understand how anyone can argue this isn't anything other than an utterly irrational and irresponsible move the more all of these issues come to the surface and are discussed by sources people may trust more than this forum. It's plainly obvious that no-one from the governor on down considered the impact of the move beyond how it would play politically.

Even if you think RCID should be dissolved, surely you would agree this was not the way to do it? I also don't know why anyone would have any faith that any of the major actors involved in pushing this through will suddenly be sober and rational, putting aside self-interest and working with stakeholders to resolve the mess they've created and great the best possible outcome for all involved. That would be quite a left-turn.

What’s worse is that a number of those involved has claimed/admitted that they didn’t do any research! The governor claims he didn’t even know what it was until recently. Rep. Fine said during the special session that he didn’t consult anyone. We have a whole group of politicians who proudly proclaim that they’re bad at their jobs and people love them for it!

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

I think lots of them don't get done at all is what would happen. For instance, I doubt the World Drive fly over would have happened.

This is the biggest change I see also if anything actually changes next year… losing the ability to quickly make traffic changes. With all the growth in Orlando they’d join a long list of necessary road improvements waiting for funding and resources. Disney traffic isn’t perfect but it moves a lot smoother than all the public roads surrounding it.

 

[peter11435]

Can you point to a spot where you change from a public road (RCID) to a private road (WDW) on that route?

Genuinely curious. I picked that route on purpose. First because it use the new World Drive fly over, and second because someone could make that trip just passing through. It wasn't just because I like Taco Bell (although, I do and it's a personal failing).

It would change to Disney control adjacent to the MK guest parking lot and then remain Disney until shortly before RCFD station 3

 

[peter11435]

What’s worse is that a number of those involved has claimed/admitted that they didn’t do any research! The governor claims he didn’t even know what it was until recently. Rep. Fine said during the special session that he didn’t consult anyone. We have a whole group of politicians who proudly proclaim that they’re bad at their jobs and people love them for it!

We love politicians who create and vote on legislation they know nothing about