News Reedy Creek Improvement District and the Central Florida Tourism Oversight District

[Buried20KLeague]

I agree that media should present both sides. But in this case one side is just yelling “I have a plan” without stating what that plan is or even giving an indication that there really is a plan.

Hmmm... Where have I heard THAT before??

 

[mikejs78]

A slight reminder/clarification needs to jump in this discussion. The main one being it takes affect JUNE 2023. Not June 2022!

That's beside the point. They have to start planning now.

 

[Disstevefan1]

That's beside the point. They have to start planning now.

Agreed! And work to try to block it started before the voting

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

It is not just theater. A law was passed. The expense of a special session was incurred. The counties now having to assume the responsibilities of the districts to be dissolved have to start figuring things out right now. People have to decide if they need to start looking for work. This is real and it’s impact on people has started.

I’ve read several articles stating the county still needs to vote to dissolve the district, the state can’t just do it alone. Time will tell.

You are correct that it’s going to cause a lot of planning headaches whether it happens or not, it’s also true that RCiDs ability to get bonds was also harmed.. I’ll be surprised if anything actually changes in 2023 though.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I’ve read several articles stating the county still needs to vote to dissolve the district, the state can’t just do it alone. Time will tell.

You are correct that it’s going to cause a lot of planning headaches whether it happens or not, it’s also true that RCiDs ability to get bonds was also harmed.. I’ll be surprised if anything actually changes in 2023 though.

There is a question of whether or not the landowners need to vote, not the counties. The law seeks to not require this vote and it was not part of the original creation.

It’s not just a headache. It’s real harm, and it’s not just limited to those around the Reedy Creek Improvement District. There is no good reason to continue to try and trivialize poorly considered policy implemented for malicious purposes.

 

[GoofGoof]

I used World Drive as an example earlier too, to show the big benefit Disney gets. Before everyone plowed on with taxes instead.

There's a third option besides Disney finance vs RCID finance, and having the choose the roadway vs an attraction. The roadway intersection redesign could have just not been done.

At the county level, the county deciding to redesign the intersection and all the roads to the West of MK. The county could just conclude that they're good enough for what's there now. That there was no need to redesign the interchange at all.

If that meant that the parking lot access had to deal with operational issues, too bad. If that means that a 15 year plan Disney has to build another resort on that side doesn't have needed infrastructure ahead of time, too bad. (Even if it's always 15 years from now, never closer.) This priority setting without having to publish an entire strategy. The ability to blur the line between what's an RCID vs private Disney road. Those are the real advantages Disney get's from RCID.

It's something only needed because of the size, and it definitely has an extra cost to have it. We've got no idea how much Disney values this benefit vs the cost. Presumably enough, or they would have tried to dissolve the district before.

All true. If Disney was just a regular taxpayer they would need to get in line with everyone else to beg for funding for projects. Thats a downside for sure. The benefit is the county and all the other taxpayers will foot part of the bill. I gave the new road to Universal‘s park as an example earlier. They needed to negotiate with the county and ultimately compromised that the county pays half of the $315M and Universal pays half. Ironically since Disney pays taxes to Orange County they are indirectly paying for a portion of the new road to Universals new gate. If Disney wants a new road they don’t have to beg, but RCID foots the whole bill so is eventually paid for 100% by Disney.

The other major benefit to Disney is RCID can borrow money using municipal bonds and that debt stays off of the books of TWDC. The Universal road example was $315M for 2 miles of roads. WDW has 175 miles of roads. It’s a lot of infrastructure to build and maintain. So if Comcast wants to finance their share of the new road they add $150M of new debt to their balance sheet where Disney can finance projects without debt. Big benefit. When Disney built the parking garages at Disney Springs they financed the cost through RCID keeping $100M+ off of their balance sheet. Ultimately Disney paid down the debt through tax payments but the benefit of financing with municipal debt is huge. No way Orange County would agree to pay for a parking garage for a private business so it’s a benefit.

 

[BuzzedPotatoHead89]

14 months is still an insufficient amount of time for this to be resolved particularly since no practical steps will be taken until after November.

If the legislature is serious about actually revisiting this they will need to likely revisit this again during regular session in 2023 that would indefinitely delay the June 2023 dissolution of RCID and craft an actual study commission to revisit this that would repeal the current act and provide a 24 month study commission. Likely to be overseen by a third party contracting firm with representatives from Disney, the Florida state Chamber of commerce (who I can imagine is unimpressed with this behind the scenes), both county governments, Orlando local governments and the respective unions of public works and service workers whose contracts would be impacted.

Of course as part of this the commission would release its findings to the legislature before a second “formal” (non-show) vote.

 

[GoofGoof]

There is a question of whether or not the landowners need to vote, not the counties. The law seeks to not require this vote and it was not part of the original creation.

It’s not just a headache. It’s real harm, and it’s not just limited to those around the Reedy Creek Improvement District. There is no good reason to continue to try and trivialize poorly considered policy implemented for malicious purposes.

I wonder how DVC would factor into that. Since almost a quarter of taxes paid to RCID come from DVC owners would they get a vote? In a practical sense they don’t own the land since it goes back to Disney after x number of years but they are paying real estate taxes as if they are land owners and a deed is generated when you buy in.

 

[Vegas Disney Fan]

The statute terminating RCID is worded in such a way as to negate the requirement that landowners vote.

I’d read that also but there’s some question whether it’ll stand a legal challenge.

Legislation with no planning or forethought is destined to be a legal minefield, this one being a perfect example, no one knows who pays for what, who acquires the debt, if it’s even possible without a vote… just bad on every level because it was done fast and poorly.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I wonder how DVC would factor into that. Since almost a quarter of taxes paid to RCID come from DVC owners would they get a vote? In a practical sense they don’t own the land since it goes back to Disney after x number of years but they are paying real estate taxes as if they are land owners and a deed is generated when you buy in.

Well, if RCID is gone, then our property taxes go down, and the county can't add that back in. We pay the proper amount to the counties already.

 

[GoofGoof]

Well, if RCID is gone, then our property taxes go down, and the county can't add that back in. We pay the proper amount to the counties already.

I posted about this a few pages back. DVCnews.com had a little write-up. In summary about half the taxes paid by DVC owners goes to RCID. That goes away. The estimate is that if Orange County had to absorb most of the cost budget of RCID they would need to raise taxes on all taxpayers by 25%. So roughly a 37% decrease in total taxes paid by DVC owners. Do I think it’s likely that actually happens? No, but if nothing else changes, RCID is dissolved and the counties absorb the costs that’s what the math says would happen.

 

[LuvtheGoof]

I posted about this a few pages back. DVCnews.com had a little write-up. In summary about half the taxes paid by DVC owners goes to RCID. That goes away. The estimate is that if Orange County had to absorb most of the cost budget of RCID they would need to raise taxes on all taxpayers by 25%. So roughly a 37% decrease in total taxes paid. Do I think it’s likely that actually happens? No, but if nothing else changes, RCID is dissolved and the counties absorb the costs that’s what the math says would happen.

Sorry that I missed that. I don't visit this thread often.

 

[Buried20KLeague]

And I've known parents that have shielded even Disney animated movies from their young children if it had a kissing scene in it. That is their right as a parent.

So is corporal punishment, amirite?!? High five!

 

[GoofGoof]

Sorry that I missed that. I don't visit this thread often.

Good for your sanity. There’s been some good back on forth on the actual issues around RCID but that’s surrounded by a lot of talk about the original bill too which is supposed to be off topic.

 

[flynnibus]

I wonder how DVC would factor into that. Since almost a quarter of taxes paid to RCID come from DVC owners would they get a vote? In a practical sense they don’t own the land since it goes back to Disney after x number of years but they are paying real estate taxes as if they are land owners and a deed is generated when you buy in.

I don't know timeshare peculiars here.. but just because DVC people are the ones paying out of pocket doesn't mean they are the same as the owner with rights. This limited deed stuff complicates stuff... and frankly I've never looked into it.

DVC doesn't break out property tax in your fees right? So you don't even get to claim the tax deduction.

 

[Chip Chipperson]

I don't know timeshare peculiars here.. but just because DVC people are the ones paying out of pocket doesn't mean they are the same as the owner with rights. This limited deed stuff complicates stuff... and frankly I've never looked into it.

DVC doesn't break out property tax in your fees right? So you don't even get to claim the tax deduction.

They actually do break out property taxes on the annual dues statement. I wouldn't be surprised if the contract has a proxy voting clause that grants any RCID voting rights to DVC rather than each individual member, though.

 

[mikejs78]

The statute terminating RCID is worded in such a way as to negate the requirement that landowners vote.

The statute requiring that landowners vote was passed with a simple majority, and it only takes a simple majority to nullify it.

It's unclear whether or not it could apply retroactively, or whether a simple "Notwithstanding" is enough to remove the requirement. I.e. the legislature could remove the requirement for voters for new districts formed today and beyond but can't retroactively do so for districts incorporated when that statute existed.

There's also a provision in the state constitution about a vote required to transfer services from one taxing entity to another they may come into play.

 

[GoofGoof]

I don't know timeshare peculiars here.. but just because DVC people are the ones paying out of pocket doesn't mean they are the same as the owner with rights. This limited deed stuff complicates stuff... and frankly I've never looked into it.

DVC doesn't break out property tax in your fees right? So you don't even get to claim the tax deduction.

Taxes are broken out separate as a per point charge and they vary by resort. They do reference both the Orange County and RCID tax collectors. In theory you can claim a tax deduction or could before most people stopped itemizing.

 

[Prince-1]

Agreed. That's why I said possibly.

Putting all Floridians aside, DeSantis only does or does not do things that he thinks will help HIMSELF politically.

Time will tell if he did the right thing for HIMSELF.

Whatever happens with WDW or the Florida taxpayers is of no matter to HIM.

You are correct on this. DeSantis has his eyes on moving to a much bigger house, in a nice shade of white, in the near future. Everything he does is to reach that goal.

 

[GoofGoof]

They actually do break out property taxes on the annual dues statement. I wouldn't be surprised if the contract has a proxy voting clause that grants any RCID voting rights to DVC rather than each individual member, though.

Yes, most powers reside with the association. Owners have little control over anything. There is an annual meeting but I’ve never heard of the budgets or plans being changed based on owners objections.